Traffic lights - what about this instance

[90019]

As the main phase goes to green, the right turn filter comes on simultaneously. The filter will let a few cars go and then go off. It doesn't come on at the end of the main phase and people just go as the lights change to amber as you would when the filter fails to fire for whatever reason. It all seems a bit backwards (but then again, it is Oldham :P)

There's a few junctions in Hull where the right filters come on first, then go off as the main green lights come on.
It always strikes me as a weird way of doing it, and I've seen a few near misses where people carry on turning right, or people coming the other way accelerate hard towards cars that were already turning.

 

[PermitToTravel]

In GM there are about five seconds between the filter extinguishing and oncoming traffic getting green, to compensate for the lack of an amber when the former happens

 

[me123]

There's a few junctions in Hull where the right filters come on first, then go off as the main green lights come on.
It always strikes me as a weird way of doing it, and I've seen a few near misses where people carry on turning right, or people coming the other way accelerate hard towards cars that were already turning.

That's weird. I haven't come across this until I was looking at this thread and found an example of this elsewhere. I think it is an odd way of doing it, and I've never seen it in Scotland. Where I have seen a layout like this, I've only ever seen traffic turning right be given a red signal prior to the conflicting traffic being permitted to proceed. Or, as happens frequently around here, right turning traffic is signalled to move separately. I think I'd be confused by it, to be honest, and I'd expect that it's not the best way of doing it. Presumably it works well enough for local traffic, but people from elsewhere must be confused by it.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Best one is at the Three Nuns pub at Cooper Bridge near Mirfield, heading towards Leeds: a right turn filter for the A643 towards Mirfield centre, signal controlled. The left lane is to follow the A62 towards Liversedge and Leeds, but as there's no facility for traffic FROM Mirfield heading towards Livvy to make a direct right-turn (that traffic must go 200yds or so and around a roundabout), the lights for traffic from the Huddersfield or Brighouse directions going towards Leeds has no legal conflicts so has a straight ahead green arrow which is ALWAYS illuminated!

 

[Crossover]

Best one is at the Three Nuns pub at Cooper Bridge near Mirfield, heading towards Leeds: a right turn filter for the A643 towards Mirfield centre, signal controlled. The left lane is to follow the A62 towards Liversedge and Leeds, but as there's no facility for traffic FROM Mirfield heading towards Livvy to make a direct right-turn (that traffic must go 200yds or so and around a roundabout), the lights for traffic from the Huddersfield or Brighouse directions going towards Leeds has no legal conflicts so has a straight ahead green arrow which is ALWAYS illuminated!

Yep - drive through that junction every day

It is also odd as it has a fully signalled bike lane alongside the bus lane coming down along the side of Starbucks

 

[cb a1]

That's weird. I haven't come across this until I was looking at this thread and found an example of this elsewhere. I think it is an odd way of doing it, and I've never seen it in Scotland.

When I did my 'introduction to road traffic signalling' many years ago, we were taught this as a variant done pretty much only in Manchester / North West; it was even called something like the 'Manchester preceding Right Turn variant'.

Whilst it's clearly not exclusive to this area, examples anywhere else are pretty rare.

 

[krus_aragon]

What if the green traffic light is flashing? On Network Rail you never get a flashing colour light signal on curved track.

For sheer trivia's sake, in Ontario, Canada, either a green arrow or a flashing green light (an "advanced green") can be used to indicate that traffic turning left has priority over oncoming traffic (i.e. they've still got red lights).

 

[Bayum]

For sheer trivia's sake, in Ontario, Canada, either a green arrow or a flashing green light (an "advanced green") can be used to indicate that traffic turning left has priority over oncoming traffic (i.e. they've still got red lights).

Is that as part of how their Highway Code works over there?

I seem to recall having a discussion with a friend in the US for their honeymoon and they were saying they got beeped at an awful lot and red lights. Turns out you are able to make a right/left turn (I forget which!) when safe, even if the ahead arrow is red!

 

[me123]

Correct. Unless otherwise instructed (eg you can't in NYC), in the US you can turn right through a red light if it's clear to do so. You have to obviously be aware of traffic coming from other directions and, potentially, pedestrians crossing the road of course.

Don't think I'm particularly keen to have it over here TBH (obviously left turn over here). Left turn filters often do the job better and, given how loosely some people apply the existing rules of the road, I'm not convinced it's a good idea to allow people through red lights!

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

There's a few junctions in Hull where the right filters come on first, then go off as the main green lights come on.
It always strikes me as a weird way of doing it, and I've seen a few near misses where people carry on turning right, or people coming the other way accelerate hard towards cars that were already turning.

We normally have a yellow arrow to warn drivers
Like here in Glenferrie.
https://goo.gl/maps/ucv9Ft8rV9s
In this case a tram will trigger the right filter. The arrow will go yellow then off. Then the other side gets a go.
If there was a separate lane for right traffic the arrow phase will go for both sides but with a red light for straight traffic.
We used to use just a green arrow for turns but we added the yellow for left turns and many right ones. If a right one doesn't have one both straight and right will go at the same time with the other way red.


A lot of newer intersections in victoria we have the red arrow turn off after about 10 seconds after the main light goes green.

 

[Barn]

As others have said:

Green light = OK to proceed in any direction (subject to other signs restricting any particular direction of course)

Red light and green arrow = OK to proceed in the direction of the arrow. Stop for all other directions

Green light and green arrow = OK to proceed in any direction. Conflicting traffic has been stopped for the benefit of vehicles turning in the direction of the arrow.

So I would have understood if the filter arrow was pointing right (it would mean that the oncoming traffic had been stopped). Why a left turn one would illuminate mid way through the green light cycle has stumped me.

 

[edwin_m]

Correct. Unless otherwise instructed (eg you can't in NYC), in the US you can turn right through a red light if it's clear to do so. You have to obviously be aware of traffic coming from other directions and, potentially, pedestrians crossing the road of course.

Don't think I'm particularly keen to have it over here TBH (obviously left turn over here). Left turn filters often do the job better and, given how loosely some people apply the existing rules of the road, I'm not convinced it's a good idea to allow people through red lights!

Of places I've been recently, Paris Rome and Riga all allow right turns on red but subject to giving way to pedestrians who may be crossing on a green man at the time. I'm not sure if this is universal or just at some junctions, as I'm only walking round these places not trying to drive!

In the last decade or so in the UK they have started putting red and green men to one side to force people to look towards approaching traffic in the nearest lane. I find this incredibly irritating in the UK but would make sense if they did it in the above places, as I tend to want to look towards turning traffic to make sure it is actually stopping so am often not looking towards the red and green men in the traditional position opposite. Compliance by drivers seems pretty good in my limited experience.

 

[Crossover]

Of places I've been recently, Paris Rome and Riga all allow right turns on red but subject to giving way to pedestrians who may be crossing on a green man at the time. I'm not sure if this is universal or just at some junctions, as I'm only walking round these places not trying to drive!

In the last decade or so in the UK they have started putting red and green men to one side to force people to look towards approaching traffic in the nearest lane. I find this incredibly irritating in the UK but would make sense if they did it in the above places, as I tend to want to look towards turning traffic to make sure it is actually stopping so am often not looking towards the red and green men in the traditional position opposite. Compliance by drivers seems pretty good in my limited experience.

A number of places in Germany do similar, where it is controlled by a flashing amber light

 

[PermitToTravel]

Red light and green arrow = OK to proceed in the direction of the arrow. Stop for all other directions

Introducing yet another regional variation: often around London, you'll just see a green arrow illuminated with no red light, and another green arrow extinguished - this too means that you must stop and wait for your arrow to light up

 

[miami]

Introducing yet another regional variation: often around London, you'll just see a green arrow illuminated with no red light, and another green arrow extinguished - this too means that you must stop and wait for your arrow to light up

I can't picture this. So there's a green left, a non-lit green right, no green circles, and no reds, and no red arrows

Has a bulb blown?

 

[Jonny]

Introducing yet another regional variation: often around London, you'll just see a green arrow illuminated with no red light, and another green arrow extinguished - this too means that you must stop and wait for your arrow to light up

It's almost as dumb as the New Zealand red arrow which means do not proceed to make this turn (which is very easy to miss).

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can't picture this. So there's a green left, a non-lit green right, no green circles, and no reds, and no red arrows

Has a bulb blown?

I suspect so - that seems wrong. The main "round" lights should always show something, the flow arrows should never be illuminated on their own. For "stop" to apply to any traffic, red, amber or red/amber must be showing.

(Though I bet even with a blown bulb the cameras work, sadly! Not as good as the managed motorways setup, where the display on the matrix is replicated onto the photo taken by the speed camera by way of fibre optics so the ticket won't be issued if the display was incorrect or missing)

 

[Jonny]

I suspect so - that seems wrong. The main "round" lights should always show something, the flow arrows should never be illuminated on their own. For "stop" to apply to any traffic, red, amber or red/amber must be showing.

(Though I bet even with a blown bulb the cameras work, sadly! Not as good as the managed motorways setup, where the display on the matrix is replicated onto the photo taken by the speed camera by way of fibre optics so the ticket won't be issued if the display was incorrect or missing)

Exactly - if the red light has been extinguished then it no longer applies. Of course, you have to check that there isn't a second set of lights for your manoeuvre, which may be at red, on the same pole. I have seen such arrangements in Sheffield, Durham City and Edinburgh.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Sorry, I got a bit confused: there will be a red light at such a junction, just not a sufficient number of them. It's not a legal setup, but TfL love it and it seems to be absolutely everywhere:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5...4!1so2mBxTlyDUA-aX8xXFGa9w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

For this to be compliant there needs to be a traffic island separating the lanes. For bonus points there'll often be green balls instead of arrows, with a blue left turn only arrow on the left signal head and a right turn only arrow on the right signal head.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

(Though I bet even with a blown bulb the cameras work, sadly! Not as good as the managed motorways setup, where the display on the matrix is replicated onto the photo taken by the speed camera by way of fibre optics so the ticket won't be issued if the display was incorrect or missing)

Aren't the cameras always set back such that they can see the signal aspect?