Train branding after the Williams Review

[Hb06_]

If the Williams Review is accepted and this centralised rail authority is created, how would the operators names be shown on the logos or livery of the trains? Would it be similar to TfL, where there is one name for the entire system although operated by different businesses? Or would it just stay the same as now?

 

[HSTEd]

I would expect, as a lay observer, something intermediate.

A half dozen or dozen generic brands "GREAT WESTERN RAILWAY" or "EAST COAST" or whatever, but with very small logos for the operators positioned next to them.

"GREAT WESTERN RAILWAYS by arriva" style of thing.

 

[Hb06_]

I would expect, as a lay observer, something intermediate.

A half dozen or dozen generic brands "GREAT WESTERN RAILWAY" or "EAST COAST" or whatever, but with very small logos for the operators positioned next to them.

"GREAT WESTERN RAILWAYS by arriva" style of thing.

Got it, do you think the current brands would be scrapped, then?

 

[HSTEd]

Got it, do you think the current brands would be scrapped, then?

The already genericised ones like Great Western would be kept, but the remaining non generic ones would be scrapped.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Nothing is more important, obviously, than what livery the trains are going to be painted in.
Organisation, fares and how it is all to be funded are only minor considerations...

 

[Hb06_]

Nothing is more important, obviously, than what livery the trains are going to be painted in.
Organisation, fares and how it is all to be funded are only minor considerations...

I was just curious. I certainly agree that fares and timetables are more important.

 

[cactustwirly]

The already genericised ones like Great Western would be kept, but the remaining non generic ones would be scrapped.

Which ToCs have non generic brands then?

 

[CeeJ]

Which ToCs have non generic brands then?

C2C and Avanti - though both of which are still quite generic.

 

[HSTEd]

Which ToCs have non generic brands then?

C2C, Avanti West Coast, Govia Thameslink Railway

There aren't many left, but they still exist.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Nothing is more important, obviously, than what livery the trains are going to be painted in.
Organisation, fares and how it is all to be funded are only minor considerations...

Quite - almost always the first question asked. Pointlessly in my humble opinion. (unless you are a design consultant seeking well paid work)

I suggest blue and grey - quite serviceable if kept clean.

 

[StephenHunter]

To be honest, I can't see c2c going back to LTS - the name would bring back some bad memories. The official name for the franchise is Essex Thameside, which sounds odd. So would Estuary Trains.

Essex Rail?

 

[HSTEd]

To be honest, I can't see c2c going back to LTS - the name would bring back some bad memories. The official name for the franchise is Essex Thameside, which sounds odd. So would Estuary Trains.

Essex Rail?

Eastern Counties Railway?

 

[LOL The Irony]

C2C

C2C

Idk, C2C seems pretty generic to me.

 

[HSTEd]

Idk, C2C seems pretty generic to me.

The branding is old enough that it is likely to belong to the operator, thus keeping it costs much moneys.

 

[LOL The Irony]

The branding is old enough that it is likely to belong to the operator, thus keeping it costs much moneys.

True, and it does have more than a hint of Anywheresville. Like which city to which coast?

 

[popeter45]

i wonder if the ability (or unability) to design the brand of a franchise would affect what companies would decide to bid for franchises?
no "virgin great western" or "first east coast" as future possibilities if branding was centralised
could just go full BR with blanket branding like intercity west coast, Welsh Rural Railways and Manchester Metro

 

[MarkyT]

Line/network branding is useful for customers, especially when the business names used are closely linked to the geographical areas served. I really wouldn't want to return to everything throughout the UK being painted a standard shade of blue or green. I like the GWR by First or similar approach.

 

[neontrix]

I can see the regionalised/sectorised brands from franchises staying. People like to have their area represented, generally, by their TOC. Intercity operators not so much, by nature of their longer area. Like others have said, most recent generic brands are quite good, EMR, GWR, LNER spring to mind, and a little tagline of 'x service operated by Abellio' would work, it works on ScotRail. Wonder if we might see more branding from the transport departments of the combined authorities back on the railway (if localism happens to be a part of the Williams review), like the PTE days.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

To be honest, I can't see c2c going back to LTS - the name would bring back some bad memories. The official name for the franchise is Essex Thameside, which sounds odd. So would Estuary Trains.

Essex Rail?

LSR - London Southend Railway?

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Govia Thameslink Railway

GTR's brands are very generic though; Southern, Thameslink, Gatwick Express and Great Northern.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Maybe First Trenitalia should have gone with something like LMS if the Avanti name becomes irrelevant in the upcoming shake up!

I always thought the Avanti name should be reserved for one of the WCP operator's train fleets, WCML or HS2.

 

[markymark2000]

I think right now, only Avanti needs looking at. All other TOCs have generic names which could be used.

 

[Hb06_]

I think right now, only Avanti needs looking at. All other TOCs have generic names which could be used.

Coould the DfT not make an exception. They might as well if they are keeping all the old names?

 

[StephenHunter]

LSR - London Southend Railway?

That invites 'Loser' jokes though.

 

[HSTEd]

I think right now, only Avanti needs looking at. All other TOCs have generic names which could be used.

keeping some of the names could get expensive though.

Who owns the Chiltern Trains branding?

 

[StephenHunter]

Possibly the DfT; the branding was used in NSE days.

 

[markymark2000]

keeping some of the names could get expensive though.

Who owns the Chiltern Trains branding?

Possibly. I suppose that does depend on how easily the operators give up their names. The names are useless to the train operators if nationalisation does happen. I don't suppose 'TransPennine Express' or 'Greater Anglia' have much use outside of the UK unless they companies set up coaches.

 

[MarkyT]

Something we haven't considered yet is what branding should HS2 services eventually use. It's multibranched network doesn't suit any ONE of the old legacy main line/geographical names, so if Trenitalia are going to operate it during the transition phase, then perhaps a non geographical name like Avanti could remain approapriate. Alternatively, the service brands on HS2 could be split up according to which part of the country the trains end up at the northern end, but that sounds complicated operationally, with non-uniform fleet and staffing issues. I'd prefer the HS2 services to be separately operated and uniquely branded with residual WCML service transferred into a unified LNWR company, with a 'blackberry black' based colour scheme of course!

 

[mmh]

You could always brand HS2 services as HS2.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

For the WCP:

If still Avanti, then Avanti West Coast (WCML) and Avanti Rapido (HS2)?

If there are to be changes, then say, LMS (WCML) and LMS Highspeed (HS2)?