Train calling at some extra stops but not others?

[amahy]

The 12:54 Manchester Victoria to Leeds today (Sunday 19/01/2024) is listed as calling additionally at Moston, Mills Hill, and Castleton, as a train was cancelled, presumably the 11:00, 12:00 and 13:00 to Blackburn (all canned). However, the 11:00, 12:00, and 13:00 also call at two other stations en route that the 12:54 doesn't - Smithy Bridge and Walsden, yet the train is not calling additionally at these stations, for some reason, resulting in a 4 hour gap for these 2 stations (between 10:00 and 14:00). Simple question: Why?

 

[The exile]

Could it be that these two have shorter platforms than the others and the stock on the 12.54 doesn't have selective door opening?

 

[amahy]

Could it be that these two have shorter platforms than the others and the stock on the 12.54 doesn't have selective door opening?

It's a double 195/0. Plus, all platforms on the route were recently lengthened to accomadate at least a 4 car 195.

 

[rg177]

Considering that it was scheduled to be 11 mins ahead of the 1217 Blackpool North to York service at Hebden Bridge, lost eight minutes due to the extra stops, and still delayed the ex-Blackpool North by four minutes (which were then recovered) - you'd have either ended up with it stuck behind the ex-Blackpool and out of path entirely (and the 1320 Manchester Victoria to Leeds right behind you by then) or causing a more serious delay to it (if the ex-Manchester stayed in front) which would have then had a further knock-on, particularly when getting out of Leeds towards York. That's likely a lot of people with missed connections by that point.

It will have been done with the bigger picture in mind and the knock-on effects of inserting the additional stops - as inconvenient as it is for Walsden and Smithy Bridge passengers.

 

[amahy]

Considering that it was scheduled to be 11 mins ahead of the 1217 Blackpool North to York service at Hebden Bridge, lost eight minutes due to the extra stops, and still delayed the ex-Blackpool North by four minutes (which were then recovered) - you'd have either ended up with it stuck behind the ex-Blackpool and out of path entirely (and the 1320 Manchester Victoria to Leeds right behind you by then) or causing a more serious delay to it (if the ex-Manchester stayed in front) which would have then had a further knock-on, particularly when getting out of Leeds towards York. That's likely a lot of people with missed connections by that point.

It will have been done with the bigger picture in mind and the knock-on effects of inserting the additional stops - as inconvenient as it is for Walsden and Smithy Bridge passengers.

If you missed a connection, the chances are you would have less time to wait than the four hour service gap Smithy Bridge and Walsden got between 10:00 and 14:00. Also, if putting extra stops on the 12:54 causes so many clashes, why not put extra stops on the 13:20 instead? Or even better, one of the trains much earlier in the day, to better mitigate the service gap? Although that would probably cause clashes with the TPEs going down the Calder Valley at the moment.

 

[rg177]

If you missed a connection, the chances are you would have less time to wait than the four hour service gap Smithy Bridge and Walsden got between 10:00 and 14:00. Also, if putting extra stops on the 12:54 causes so many clashes, why not put extra stops on the 13:20 instead? Or even better, one of the trains much earlier in the day, to better mitigate the service gap? Although that would probably cause clashes with the TPEs going down the Calder Valley at the moment.

The TPE services are also pretty close behind both stoppers from Manchester Vic (the one to Redcar behind the 1254 was delayed as a result) so its pretty much impossible to serve all stations mentioned without impacting them more drastically.

Without the engineering works, the 1320 is only around 10 minutes ahead of a Grand Central service to Bradford when it reaches Halifax so you'd be in the same situation - serving all stops means your path would be lost into Leeds. Even on a Sunday, there isn't a great deal of wiggle room before the delays start to spread.

Of course, the compromise could be (and likely should have been) that the extra stops were shared between both services so that neither was delayed enough to end up off path.

 

[amahy]

The TPE services are also pretty close behind both stoppers from Manchester Vic (the one to Redcar behind the 1254 was delayed as a result) so its pretty much impossible to serve all stations mentioned without impacting them more drastically.

Without the engineering works, the 1320 is only around 10 minutes ahead of a Grand Central service to Bradford when it reaches Halifax so you'd be in the same situation - serving all stops means your path would be lost into Leeds. Even on a Sunday, there isn't a great deal of wiggle room before the delays start to spread.

Of course, the compromise could be (and likely should have been) that the extra stops were shared between both services so that neither was delayed enough to end up off path.

Yes. It’s a shame that the temporary Sunday timetable for the line hasn’t improved the situation. Because Walsden and Smithy Bridge are only served every 2 hours in the temporary timetable, if any of the Blackburn trains are cancelled at short notice, you will always end up with either a 4 hour service gap for Moston, Mills Hill, Castleton, Smithy Bridge, and Walsden, or one of the Leeds trains calling at extra stops, causing a delay to that service. It would make more sense to transfer these stops to the Leeds trains in the temporary timetable, which tend to run a bit more reliably in my experience.

 

[Geeves]

Its really simple, platform staff typically shout up and ask for those extra stops, no one enquired about Smithy Bridge or Walsden so they were not added, if someone would've made themselves known they would have been added for the other stops.

 

[Flying Claret]

Its really simple, platform staff typically shout up and ask for those extra stops, no one enquired about Smithy Bridge or Walsden so they were not added, if someone would've made themselves known they would have been added for the other stops.

You'd have to shout pretty loud in Walsden to be heard in Manchester...

 

[amahy]

Its really simple, platform staff typically shout up and ask for those extra stops, no one enquired about Smithy Bridge or Walsden so they were not added, if someone would've made themselves known they would have been added for the other stops.

Having made thousands of journeys on the Calder Valley line, I have never seen this happen once. Indeed, I have enquired many times in the past for a train to call at an extra stop in a long service gap and I have always been turned down by platform staff.

On one occasion, I was instructed by a member of staff on the concourse to catch a train not calling at my station, and speak to the guard to ask for an extra stop, and the guard refused.