• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Train cancelled and left stranded - TfW says they can't help?

danchew

Member
Joined
12 Apr 2025
Messages
22
Location
South Wales
I summarised what I see as the situation in post 15. I see no reason why you should not be reimbursed in full. You should certainly not have to accept payment in kind (ie vouchers to suffer another journey on tfw); you should just be put into a position where you have suffered no financial loss.
Yes I agree with your reasoning, but just expecting them to respond from quite a different perspective. But I'll push for full reimbursement and see. Thanks.

With me it was because there was a do not travel warning issued, however my journey was from Leeds to Neath travelling via Manchester. I needed to get back home. The entire marches line was closed so i went via Birmingham as trains were running. At the time of setting off weather conditions were improving and the line between Cardiff and Swansea was expected to reopen at 2000 that evening. Cut a long story short it didnt and trains were suspended for the rest of the day. i ended up staying in a travel lodge at Cardiff which was my choice rather than a taxi from Cardiff. I could have gone to Bridgend via the VOG but figured I had more options if i stayed in Cardiff. I didnt expect to get anything for the hotel but was pleasantly surprised they gave me vouchers as gesture of goodwill.

With your situation it was a cancelled train due to TFW's own fault not due to any circumstances out of their control such as weather conditions. So you should certainly get a refund for the train ticket. Whether they give you anything for the taxi is very much going to be at their discretion I think as it was paid for by yourself rather than them putting a taxi on. However if you stress you had no other choice and explain it all in writing via email that usually helps. Let us know how you get on!
Ah OK, yes that sounds like a situation where they could have argued more strongly that it wasn't within their responsibility. I'll push for full reimbursement.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

tomoufc

Member
Joined
12 Dec 2014
Messages
234
Tenby to Whitland is a 13 mile, 1 hour 30 minute cycle ride along busy A roads. You sound like an experienced cyclist, but I don’t think TfW should have assumed this was an option for you. Mind you, in my view they left you stranded, and you did your best to get back on itinerary, so I think they should pay for the taxi. I’d take it to the ombudsman if they don’t.
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
25,064
Location
Bolton
The main issue here is the involvement of a bicycle, isn't it? The TOCs would like to think that as bicycles and bulky luggage are carried for free, they aren't obliged to accommodate them on rail replacement whether planned or not. Indeed I suspect not wanting to create a contract which would require them to arrange transport for them is why they don't introduce a charge for them.

If it's indeed the case that a contract doesn't exist to transport the bicycle because it isn't paid for (consideration=contract), then TfW have no obligations at all. But could a bicycle booked at the time of paying a fare be considered part of the contract?
NRCoT already states that cycles are generally permitted to be carried. Therefore the carriage of any bicycle is part of the contract subject to the usual cycle restrictions.

Non-folding cycles are permitted on most train services, but restrictions may apply at
particulartimes of day and/or days of the week. In some cases, a charge may be made,
and a reservation may be required.

As you can see, should they wish to charge, on top of a ticket, there is no particular reason they may not do so. The provision is already right there so it wouldn't change anything.
 

robbeech

Established Member
Joined
11 Nov 2015
Messages
4,819
It really isn't good enough for TfW, or any TOC, to tell a passengers to wait and see whether a bus driver will allow a bike on board. They're either allowed or they aren't.


If the railway is expected to make a yes or no decision on this (or anything) it will make the decision that favours itself. In this instance it will be that bikes are not allowed to be carried on rail replacement transport at all, ever.

But that isn’t in the rules I hear you cry?

No, and what difference has it made so far?
They’ll ignore the rules and regulations regardless leaving people no choice to pay for a taxi and this will continue u til they simply change the rules to say it.

Remember, published timetable of the day was being implemented by operators before it was an official thing.
 

danchew

Member
Joined
12 Apr 2025
Messages
22
Location
South Wales
Tenby to Whitland is a 13 mile, 1 hour 30 minute cycle ride along busy A roads. You sound like an experienced cyclist, but I don’t think TfW should have assumed this was an option for you. Mind you, in my view they left you stranded, and you did your best to get back on itinerary, so I think they should pay for the taxi. I’d take it to the ombudsman if they don’t.
I made a claim today saying everything I said here. Will see what happens and let you know!

As you can see, should they wish to charge, on top of a ticket, there is no particular reason they may not do so. The provision is already right there so it wouldn't change anything.
I would love to see more clarity on cycle carriage and more and better carriage facilities. Sometimes in the morning there are 4 or 5 bikes on the train even though officially, I think, the train can carry up to 3 bikes. So if you happen to be the 4th person, then it's up to whoever is there to let you on or not. This kind of uncertainty is stressful. You could book a space for the bike, but this isn't always there as an option on the app. But what if I absolutely have to be at the destination and the best way to get there for me is to take the train and cycle? Train plus bike is an absolutely amazing combined mode of transport that can get you pretty much anywhere in the country (well, if you're prepared to cycle moderately long distances!), but train companies are not always great at encouraging people to do that. Take a look at these strange bars on a Crosscountry train, meant to be for cycle storage. It makes me wonder if they've seen a bicycle at all! WhatsApp Image 2025-04-14 at 22.00.30.jpeg
 
Last edited:

tomoufc

Member
Joined
12 Dec 2014
Messages
234
I made a claim today saying everything I said here. Will see what happens and let you know!


I would love to see more clarity on cycle carriage and more and better carriage facilities. Sometimes in the morning there are 4 or 5 bikes on the train even though officially, I think, the train can carry up to 3 bikes. So if you happen to be the 4th person, then it's up to whoever is there to let you on or not. This kind of uncertainty is stressful. You could book a space for the bike, but this isn't always there as an option on the app. But what if I absolutely have to be at the destination and the best way to get there for me is to take the train and cycle? Train plus bike is an absolutely amazing combined mode of transport that can get you pretty much anywhere in the country (well, if you're prepared to cycle moderately long distances!), but train companies are not always great at encouraging people to do that. Take a look at these strange bars on a Crosscountry train, meant to be for cycle storage. It makes me wonder if they've seen a bicycle at all! View attachment 178351
Completely agree - it’s how I get about without a car (the Brompton plus bus option is great too). Other countries are much better at this, notably Denmark who have entire carriages for bikes on many trains. To be fair to TfW, they have been experimenting with “active travel” carriages on the Heart of Wales line. There’s a long way to go though, and it of course requires public investment, which always seems to be in short supply in Britain.
 

danchew

Member
Joined
12 Apr 2025
Messages
22
Location
South Wales
Completely agree - it’s how I get about without a car (the Brompton plus bus option is great too). Other countries are much better at this, notably Denmark who have entire carriages for bikes on many trains. To be fair to TfW, they have been experimenting with “active travel” carriages on the Heart of Wales line. There’s a long way to go though, and it of course requires public investment, which always seems to be in short supply in Britain.
To be fair, bike storage on the new South Wales Metro trains are far simpler and better than the nonsense above on CrossCountry or on GWR. See what can happen when someone actually looks at a bike first? WhatsApp Image 2025-04-15 at 10.35.28.jpeg
 

Mcr Warrior

Veteran Member
Joined
8 Jan 2009
Messages
14,714
Take a look at these strange bars on a Crosscountry train, meant to be for cycle storage. It makes me wonder if they've seen a bicycle at all!
Just to clarify, is that the storage area for bicycles on the CrossCountry train in question, or is it maybe intended for use by wheelchair users?
 

danchew

Member
Joined
12 Apr 2025
Messages
22
Location
South Wales
Just to clarify, is that the storage area for bicycles on the CrossCountry train in question, or is it maybe intended for use by wheelchair users?
I believe it's meant to be used like this: WhatsApp Image 2025-04-15 at 16.38.21.jpeg

But my bike and many others' won't fit so it's just an obstacle. All there needs to be is some padding and a belt to secure the bikes, as implemented in the new TfW trains.

I'm not a wheelchair user so can't speak for others, but I find it hard to see how this protruding obstacle can be of much benefit to wheelchair users. Especially if you look at my photo, there is no room for a wheelchair to squeeze in between the bars and the seats. If the bars weren't there, a wheelchair user could actually sit next to the window.
 

island

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2010
Messages
17,375
Location
0036
Aren't the help points at stations answered 24/7, or at least during train running hours?
the usefulness of help points can be highly variable, in many cases they patch through to an offshore contact centre with little to no local knowledge.
 

styles

Member
Joined
7 Dec 2014
Messages
576
Location
Midlothian
Aren't the help points at stations answered 24/7, or at least during train running hours?
Goodness no.

I was stranded at a station in Wales overnight because their phone number was out of action, there weren't any hotels around, and the last train of the day was cancelled. I tried the help point and nobody answered. In fact, nobody answered when I (accidentally) pressed the emergency button either. Can't remember exactly what time it was but it was late on a Friday night.

It does vary by operator etc though. I've used the ScotRail support point late at night before now and it was answered.
 

danchew

Member
Joined
12 Apr 2025
Messages
22
Location
South Wales
Excellent. Good to know that this is the likely outcome if stranded with a bike. Was never quite sure.
Bear in mind that their response was typically non-comittal:

"On this occasion only, I’ve arranged for compensation of £73.00 to be paid into your bank account. ... It's worth noting that our liability is limited to your train ticket and we only provide compensation for additional costs in certain circumstances."
 

Wolfie

Established Member
Joined
17 Aug 2010
Messages
6,991
If the railway is expected to make a yes or no decision on this (or anything) it will make the decision that favours itself. In this instance it will be that bikes are not allowed to be carried on rail replacement transport at all, ever.

But that isn’t in the rules I hear you cry?

No, and what difference has it made so far?
They’ll ignore the rules and regulations regardless leaving people no choice to pay for a taxi and this will continue u til they simply change the rules to say it.

Remember, published timetable of the day was being implemented by operators before it was an official thing.
The only response to that sort of duplicitous BS is County Court action. They'll settle every time because it costs them more to defend it and the absolute last thing that they want is a case to go to a Court of record and set a binding precedent.

Bear in mind that their response was typically non-comittal:

"On this occasion only, I’ve arranged for compensation of £73.00 to be paid into your bank account. ... It's worth noting that our liability is limited to your train ticket and we only provide compensation for additional costs in certain circumstances."
Surprise, surprise....

Aren't the help points at stations answered 24/7, or at least during train running hours?
Are they heck as like.... and if they are it's often a call centre in India (judging by the accents)
 

redreni

Established Member
Joined
24 Sep 2010
Messages
1,553
Location
Slade Green
The only response to that sort of duplicitous BS is County Court action. They'll settle every time because it costs them more to defend it and the absolute last thing that they want is a case to go to a Court of record and set a binding precedent.


Surprise, surprise....


Are they heck as like.... and if they are it's often a call centre in India (judging by the accents)
Yes, and even County Court judgements can be persuasive with respect to matters on which no court of record has ruled, so I assume they wouldn't particularly want a County Court ruling to go against them either, as that would rather force them into a position where they either have to take it to a more senior court or else accept that other District Judges are likely to be persuaded by the earlier ruling. Even if a County Court ruling goes for them, if the passenger stumps up the fee to lodge an appeal with a court of record, they could still end up having to settle if they wanted the appeal to go away, or else they risk an adverse and binding precedent should the passenger win the appeal.

In this case, however, I'm pretty sure they've already settled. I'm not a lawyer, but as I understand it, I don't think you'll get very far pursuing somebody for a payout together with an admission of liability if they've already given or offered to give you the money you're arguing about, even if that's without any admission of liability.
 

Llandudno

Established Member
Joined
25 Dec 2014
Messages
2,445
The only response to that sort of duplicitous BS is County Court action. They'll settle every time because it costs them more to defend it and the absolute last thing that they want is a case to go to a Court of record and set a binding precedent.


Surprise, surprise....


Are they heck as like.... and if they are it's often a call centre in India (judging by the accents)
Yes, the Indian call centre were you have to spell out some station names - especially some of the Welsh ones….!

Mind you I have had to spell out some Welsh station names to English booking office staff in the past…!
 

Watershed

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
26 Sep 2020
Messages
14,055
Location
UK
Bear in mind that their response was typically non-comittal:

"On this occasion only, I’ve arranged for compensation of £73.00 to be paid into your bank account.
They say this to try and imply that you "can't" refer back to it if this happens again in the future. But you weren't asking for a gesture of goodwill; rather you were making a claim for their failure to provide alternative transport that accepted your cycle. They were quite clearly liable given the circumstances.

... It's worth noting that our liability is limited to your train ticket and we only provide compensation for additional costs in certain circumstances."
This bit is just plain wrong. The only clause that even purports to limit claims to the amount paid is NRCoT 32.2, in respect of the maximum amount of Delay Repay (or equivalent) you can claim.

They couldn't limit or exclude liability for alternative transport even if they wanted to, as a matter of consumer law.
 

Top