Train collides with van on level crossing at Teynham, Kent, 23/10

[adamello]

if you can't spend a minute or two reading the signs then you shouldn't be in charge of a vehicle.

again - aside from this incident, and the nature of what's being discussed, who in the real world, whilst driving would pull over for two minutes to read a sign
Bit more of a real world example, how many people when parking up in a public carpark, when they're no longer driving, stop to read all of the Terms listed on the Parking Companies signage?

 

[alxndr]

again - aside from this incident, and the nature of what's being discussed, who in the real world, whilst driving would bull over for two minutes to read a sign
Bit more of a real world example, how many people when parking up in a public carpark, when they're no longer driving, stop to read all of the Terms listed on the Parking Companies signage?

If my life, or a hefty fine, depended on me understanding a new scenario then I, for one, would.

 

[philthetube]

500m does equate to 1000m, there and back, or approx 15 mins of extra walking time.

 

[jayah]

My first reaction on a quick skim read of the report is shock and horror that the Route level crossing team ever considered approving such an appalling dog's breakfast of signs.

Edit: reading a bit more, it seems that part of the problem is that some of the signs are prescribed by regulations, which date from before the invention of the POGO system.

But surely they ought to have designed decent signage by now and sought special authority for it?

Also there was delay in turning off the traction current after the incident.

Aside from the alphabet soup of contradictory signage the real shocker for me was the terrible record of POGO crossing equipment. It was hastily removed from the neighbouring crossing after three near misses in quick succession, the last straw being an incident involving a household fuel tanker. There was even a collision at the first trial site in North Yorkshire.

The delivery driver was even very familiar with worked crossings as he lived near one, but not POGO. The idea that guests would be briefed on how to use them seems to have been part of the safety system, but is plainly fallacious.

Interesting that actual solutions such as one bridge and a spine road linking the 3 existing roads north of the railway were considered prohibitively expensive...

 

[edwin_m]

The previous POGO accident at Yorkshire was at a crossing also equipped with red/green warning lights. The fact they weren't interlocked with the gate opening seems to me a clear case of an accident waiting to happen. The POGO clearly mitigates a hazard by allowing the driver to cross the crossing only once instead of five times, but the human factors issues clearly haven't been thought through. The answer is probably to develop a crossing that combines the POGO and red/green functions with a robust interlock between them.

For example the lights could normally be red. Pressing the button would initiate gate opening immediately if no train was approaching, otherwise request the gates to open once it was safe to do so. If a train approached before the gates were fully open then they would re-close. The lights would only go green when the gates were fully open with no train approaching, and would revert to red after a minute or so.

 

[button_boxer]

For example the lights could normally be red. Pressing the button would initiate gate opening immediately if no train was approaching, otherwise request the gates to open once it was safe to do so. If a train approached before the gates were fully open then they would re-close. The lights would only go green when the gates were fully open with no train approaching, and would revert to red after a minute or so.

Nide idea, but if you're getting to the point where you need something interlocked with lineside equipment to detect whether or not there's a train approaching then you might as well go the whole hog and turn it into an AHB.

 

[alxndr]

If the gates were interlocked then there would need to be a protecting signal in case someone ended up trapped on the crossing. The only reason AHBs are allowed without protecting signals is because they don't cover the whole road and can't trap anything.

 

[edwin_m]

If the gates were interlocked then there would need to be a protecting signal in case someone ended up trapped on the crossing. The only reason AHBs are allowed without protecting signals is because they don't cover the whole road and can't trap anything.

I would suggest that the light doesn't change to green until the gates are fully open, and once that happens they don't close until the driver presses the button on the other side. Maybe a klaxon if a train approaches when the gates are open?

 

[alxndr]

I would suggest that the light doesn't change to green until the gates are fully open, and once that happens they don't close until the driver presses the button on the other side. Maybe a klaxon if a train approaches when the gates are open?

If the light defaults to red then how will people know if it's not opening because of an approaching train or if its broken? Or pedestrians know if they can cross?

 

[edwin_m]

If the light defaults to red then how will people know if it's not opening because of an approaching train or if its broken? Or pedestrians know if they can cross?

I think it's sensible for it to default to red because it's more likely to make approaching users stop, whether on foot or in a vehicle, even if the previous user has left the gates open. It could have a smaller display by the button which lights up "train approaching - do not cross" while the button is disabled. If all else fails there is still a phone.

 

[alxndr]

I think it's sensible for it to default to red because it's more likely to make approaching users stop, whether on foot or in a vehicle, even if the previous user has left the gates open. It could have a smaller display by the button which lights up "train approaching - do not cross" while the button is disabled. If all else fails there is still a phone.

I'm still not horribly keen on it (pressing a button while it's displaying red isn't very intuitive and might subconsciously send a message that red doesn't always mean actually stop), but a separate "train approaching" light would reduce the risk of someone not differentiating between not opening because of a train and not opening because of failure.

Another thought could be to have no lights illuminated at all until a button is pressed (a la some EbiGate crossings). That button could both illuminate the appropriate light and trigger the gates to open if it's green. Although I do have my gripes with the EbiGate system and how that acts during failures.

 

[al78]

again - aside from this incident, and the nature of what's being discussed, who in the real world, whilst driving would pull over for two minutes to read a sign
Bit more of a real world example, how many people when parking up in a public carpark, when they're no longer driving, stop to read all of the Terms listed on the Parking Companies signage?

I can't speak for other people, but I check all relevant signage. For a car park, it is sometimes necessary to find out what the charge is that I need to put into the machine to get a valid parking ticket. If I hadn't read the notices at Kingussie station back in June, I may have missed the sleeper train, as it didn't stop at the platform I initially expected (UK trains normally drive on the left, like motor vehicles). Reading notices in places where services are provided with conditions needed to be met is a good habit to get into, it helps me avoid getting on the wrong side of authority.

Unless the sign is very large, or it is surrounded by a lot of irrelevant notices, who takes two minutes to read a sign? You don't need to study it as if there is going to be an exam on it later in the day, a scan read will enable you to pick up the relevant points. People in this country need to stop being so slow and get their backside into gear.

 

[edwin_m]

I'm still not horribly keen on it (pressing a button while it's displaying red isn't very intuitive and might subconsciously send a message that red doesn't always mean actually stop), but a separate "train approaching" light would reduce the risk of someone not differentiating between not opening because of a train and not opening because of failure.

Another thought could be to have no lights illuminated at all until a button is pressed (a la some EbiGate crossings). That button could both illuminate the appropriate light and trigger the gates to open if it's green. Although I do have my gripes with the EbiGate system and how that acts during failures.

A pelican crossing has all these feature - press a button to request to cross, and it lights up "wait" if you can't cross immediately.