Train delayed to enable customer connections

[dk1]

Surely the platform staff should just lock it up, especially if it’s going to be sitting on the blocks for hours on end?

Not possible. Only drivers can close the doors. The desk has to be live.

 

[Horizon22]

Not possible. Only drivers can close the doors. The desk has to be live.

That seems like quite the flaw! Almost all stock I know can be locked out without a driver’s desk being live.

 

[dk1]

That seems like quite the flaw! Almost all stock I know can be locked out without a driver’s desk being live.

My bad. That’ll teach me to type things in a rush before my train. Sorry it’s only drivers that can RELEASE the doors. Guards can close them as happens when operating in degraded mode. They have a key that when Inserted and turned allows them to close the doors from the driving cabs or certain points within the train. Ive not noticed any platform staff ever doing this however as we lock up when advised by them a train is empty when shunting to the depot or sidings.

 

[island]

Yes, I was about to say I'd seen on occasion at London terminals people appearing to be platform staff (as opposed to say the guard) using what appeared to be a T-key in a key switch at the end of coaches which closed and locked the doors for that coach. I believe it's called a porter's switch.

 

[Horizon22]

Yes, I was about to say I'd seen on occasion at London terminals people appearing to be platform staff (as opposed to say the guard) using what appeared to be a T-key in a key switch at the end of coaches which closed and locked the doors for that coach. I believe it's called a porter's switch.

All rolling stock is a little bit different but yes routinely platform staff lock up trains and are trained to do so.

It does seem that this should be the case at Norwich especially if portion working is in play, as the CIS doesn’t always like “front train” if it’s just a single-coded platform.

 

[dk1]

All rolling stock is a little bit different but yes routinely platform staff lock up trains and are trained to do so.

It does seem that this should be the case at Norwich especially if portion working is in play, as the CIS doesn’t always like “front train” if it’s just a single-coded platform.

Platforms 1-6 are all numbered A & B at Norwich and have been since the early 1990s.

 

[Horizon22]

Platforms 1-6 are all numbered A & B at Norwich and have been since the early 1990s.

I more meant a general point on the CIS and that locking up trains on the stops that won't be use in for hours is in my view good practice; I don't know the specifics of the station and whether what is suggested is possible or what gets announced.

 

[dk1]

I more meant a general point on the CIS and that locking up trains on the stops that won't be use in for hours is in my view good practice; I don't know the specifics of the station and whether what is suggested is possible or what gets announced.

We don’t actually have that many that are sitting there for hours. It’s normally 30 minutes or much less. It’s never really been an issue and GA guards (and some proactive drivers like me) will make a quick announcement onboard to make sure any non regular passengers aren’t in the wrong train. CIS and platform signage clearly state A & B next to the relevant platform number.

 

[saismee]

We don’t actually have that many that are sitting there for hours. It’s normally 30 minutes or much less. It’s never really been an issue and GA guards (and some proactive drivers like me) will make a quick announcement onboard to make sure any non regular passengers aren’t in the wrong train. CIS and platform signage clearly state A & B next to the relevant platform number.

I can confirm that they really don't sit for long, they're always in and out quite quickly. Doubling up on platforms will always be a little confusing to everyone, they are numbered A and B and people really should be taking note of this. Unfortunately, there's not much anyone can do as it's unreasonable for platform staff to constantly monitor a train and ask everyone if they're on the right one, and it's also unreasonable to lock the train until just before departure. If passengers aren't understanding the A/B platforms, they should really be looking at the (quite clear) signage or asking staff. I had the platforms understood within 30 minutes of working gateline (temporarily) in Norwich and I had only travelled there twice prior (no training either, I had to ask the person I was shadowing how many platforms there were myself ).

In defence of most passengers, a lot of them asked about A/B platforms, even if there was only one in the platform. I can't really think of another way to make it clearer.

I more meant a general point on the CIS and that locking up trains on the stops that won't be use in for hours is in my view good practice; I don't know the specifics of the station and whether what is suggested is possible or what gets announced.

The CIS is very good at Norwich and the layout is easy. Right to left are platforms 1 to 6, B is the buffer end and A is outside. There are departure screens (the fancy detailed LED/LCD screens, not the older orange ones) mounted above the gates and at the end of each platform which display the platform as 4A and 4B for stacked trains, or just 4 when there's only one (for example, from memory). It's just a general public issue rather than the station itself.

 

[Horizon22]

I can confirm that they really don't sit for long, they're always in and out quite quickly. Doubling up on platforms will always be a little confusing to everyone, they are numbered A and B and people really should be taking note of this. Unfortunately, there's not much anyone can do as it's unreasonable for platform staff to constantly monitor a train and ask everyone if they're on the right one, and it's also unreasonable to lock the train until just before departure. If passengers aren't understanding the A/B platforms, they should really be looking at the (quite clear) signage or asking staff. I had the platforms understood within 30 minutes of working gateline (temporarily) in Norwich and I had only travelled there twice prior (no training either, I had to ask the person I was shadowing how many platforms there were myself ).

In defence of most passengers, a lot of them asked about A/B platforms, even if there was only one in the platform. I can't really think of another way to make it clearer.


The CIS is very good at Norwich and the layout is easy. Right to left are platforms 1 to 6, B is the buffer end and A is outside. There are departure screens (the fancy detailed LED/LCD screens, not the older orange ones) mounted above the gates and at the end of each platform which display the platform as 4A and 4B for stacked trains, or just 4 when there's only one (for example, from memory). It's just a general public issue rather than the station itself.

That's good then. I was only referring to @LowLevel's comment who suggested there was an issue on Sundays.

 

[Sealink]

It's waiting for the train from Glasgow, now expected at 1831. I am pleased they do this.

From ScotRail, won't post a link at the message will be gone soon.

18:31 Inverness to Wick due 22:52 will be starting late from Inverness.
This is because of the train departing late to maintain customer connections.

 

[The exile]

Which sleeper was this?

Paris - Hamburg

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

I suppose it all depends on the frequency of the following train! Totally understandable to hold trains on the Furness & Cumbria lines which would wait at Barrow, as happened to me a couple of years ago!

I've usually found northern pretty naff at holding for connections. Most memorable was one freezing cold December 27th when a late running Newcastle - Carlisle Northern service pulled into P3, allowing us just enough time to sprint to P2 so we could watch the Northern Carlisle - Whitehaven service leave. Probably had around 30-40 pax sitting around for an hour and a bit waiting for the next train, and the waiting room heating wasn't that good!

That causes problems at St Bees north to Bransty.

I don't this this should have been an issue as it was a Whitehaven terminator, although my memory fails me if it worked back to Carlisle or returned to stable at Workington after that.

 

[185]

I've usually found northern pretty naff at holding for connections.

Some operators, even the nationalised ones, still have management living in 2005 with reliability & performance kpis going above running a good railway service. I get the importance of trying to stay on time - most of us do, but this needs to be kicked into touch and from speaking to one of the new big bosses at DOHL, they seem quite keen to remove that nonsense of the past and run a more pragmatic railway, run for the passengers - not just good on paper.

Nine times out of ten, our control will sensibly hold connections for a minute or two. On that tenth time, door faults and wheelchair ramps may magically appear. Allegedly.

There has to be a balance - with the robbing Peter to pay Paul argument, in that if you delay for one lot of customers, others up the route may miss their connection. Some signallers are great, and understand their actions of prioritising one train over another causes misery for hundreds of connecting passengers further down the route. (see, I didn't name THAT signalbox this time)...

 

[Krokodil]

Some operators, even the nationalised ones, still have management living in 2005 with reliability & performance kpi's going above running a good railway service.

There seems to be a bit of a silo mentality in many parts. Trains are considered in isolation both at the planning stage, and on the day. Take long term improvements for example. We concentrate lots of investment on shortening the journey times of an individual train, without looking at simple measures that could save passengers 55 minutes by fixing a connection.

 

[Pinus contorta]

I've usually found northern pretty naff at holding for connections. Most memorable was one freezing cold December 27th when a late running Newcastle - Carlisle Northern service pulled into P3, allowing us just enough time to sprint to P2 so we could watch the Northern Carlisle - Whitehaven service leave. Probably had around 30-40 pax sitting around for an hour and a bit waiting for the next train, and the waiting room heating wasn't that good!


I don't this this should have been an issue as it was a Whitehaven terminator, although my memory fails me if it worked back to Carlisle or returned to stable at Workington after that.

I think there is more recovery time factored into the timetable as the day progresses. Some of the trains can wait at St Bees up to 5 mins from my recent experience. And of course the service frequency drops later on in the day as well. So yes maybe it shouldn't have been an issue.

I was spectacularly 3 hours late arriving into Darlington once as the Barrow to Carlisle arrived late into P2 just as the onward train to Newcastle was leaving. Next train East cancelled and one after that couldn't get on because the East Coast Main Line was shut somewhere north of Berwick and a vast load of Passengers arriving from Glasgow tried to all get on a 2 car train.