Train Drivers carrying out Train Guard/Train Manager duties

[Callumphillips]

At Merseyrail, Drivers can often be seen carrying out Train Guards duties. Are there any other TOCs that allow Drivers to carry out Guards duties?

 

[NorthernTech]

It’s a bit of a sore subject area, where some companies I believe are looking into not having guards and having DOO (driver only operation). Using cctv etc to check doors but no one to safely operate the rest of the train while the driver concentrates on driving. I’m sure there is more to it than that, and some divided opinions but I think that’s the general gist of it.

 

[Callumphillips]

Like I was wondering if, as a Northern train driver, you could do overtime as a guard etc.

 

[skyhigh]

Like I was wondering if, as a Northern train driver, you could do overtime as a guard etc.

That's a firm no.

It’s a bit of a sore subject area, where some companies I believe are looking into not having guards and having DOO (driver only operation). Using cctv etc to check doors but no one to safely operate the rest of the train while the driver concentrates on driving. I’m sure there is more to it than that, and some divided opinions but I think that’s the general gist of it.

I think you've misunderstood. My reading of the post is asking if drivers ever cover the role of guard- I.e. "is there ever a driver being a guard and another driving normally", rather than "are there places where drivers do door/dispatch duties". I'm sure there are places this happens, but it's relatively unusual.

 

[NorthernTech]

Ahhh I see. Sounded like it was asking about DOO. No idea then, but a guard is surely a different job role and qualification so I’d very much doubt you could step in to help as guard or do it as overtime.

 

[skyhigh]

Ahhh I see. Sounded like it was asking about DOO. No idea then, but a guard is surely a different job role and qualification so I’d very much doubt you could step in to help as guard or do it as overtime.

There are some very rare places like the Stourbridge line where it happens (if I remember correctly) but I'd be very surprised if it happens on Merseyrail. It's definitely a no at almost all companies.

 

[DM1994]

My understanding from when I worked there a few years ago is that when a new driver qualifies, if their isn't a permanent line in the roster for them, they're right at the bottom on a spare link, they're trained to cover guards and drivers job. Once a driver line arises, they move permanently into a line on the roster and the next newest driver will move into that spare line. They used to call it something mad like a back end turn.

 

[newtownmgr]

There are some very rare places like the Stourbridge line where it happens (if I remember correctly) but I'd be very surprised if it happens on Merseyrail. It's definitely a no at almost all companies.

The town car at Stourbridge they are dual rolled so do a mix of driving & guard duties. As far as I’m aware that’s the only place on the national rail network it happens. You’re either a driver or a guard and that’s what you do.

 

[Efini92]

There are some very rare places like the Stourbridge line where it happens (if I remember correctly) but I'd be very surprised if it happens on Merseyrail. It's definitely a no at almost all companies.

The Stourbridge line uses bus drivers, they aren’t traincrew.
On Merseyrail the line of promotion is from guard to driver.

Like I was wondering if, as a Northern train driver, you could do overtime as a guard etc.

No like @skyhigh said. Whilst some may have been guards before going driving they are no longer competent in guards duties.

In the later BR days Trainman D could do both driving and guard duties.

 

[MA8141]

In a time where the gov/TOC’s are wanting to multi skill staff to reduce their workforce numbers, any idea of carrying out a different task aside from your driving work is playing into that narrative and shouldn’t ever be considered.

 

[43066]

In a time where the gov/TOC’s are wanting to multi skill staff to reduce their workforce numbers, any idea of carrying out a different task aside from your driving work is playing into that narrative and shouldn’t ever be considered.

Absolutely. Plus, let’s face it, drivers are more expensive than guards so it would be a bizarre use of resources to deploy them in another role.

 

[jamesst]

A certain number of drivers at each merseyrail depot can do guards jobs. What happens is when you qualify as a driver you can also be used on the back in the event of guard shortages. A driver can not put in to work a rest day as a guard.
As you (as a driver) move up in seniority and more drivers pass out behind you then you drop off the list that can also guard.

This basically is the payoff of drivers only being able to be recruited from the guards grade. This of course may well change in the future.

Hope that makes sense!

 

[PupCuff]

It does make some logical sense to be fair that for Merseyrail where all or most of their new drivers will have very recently held competence as a Guard that maintaining that competence for a short period post-qualifying is desirable, both in terms of being able to cover temporary shortages but also should a driver in training or postqualified driver not make the grade (after the usual support arrangements have been followed) they could then be returned to their previous role at minimal cost of retraining etc.

It's not greatly different to someone who was a conductor going on to be a manager and maintaining said conductor competence for when the usual roll of call for open turns is exhausted which is common across the industry.

I wouldn't personally endorse routine cases where trainee drivers had to also train in conductor rules/routes/traction however. For off the street folks it's a massive learning curve without having to worry about the differences down the back and managing the customer environment too.

 

[Busyboy89]

I might be going out on a limb here, but check your contract and DRI I’m sure you aren’t allowed to do any other roles/duties.

They’ll want you to do it untill you mess up, then it'll be your fault and on your record. I’ve known fellow drivers be told off about putting ramps down, because they are not ‘trained’ especially if things go wrong.

 

[dk1]

Anglia Railways had an agreement where drivers could cover 'back end duties' obviously without any revenue etc to save a service being cancelled due to no conductor. Keeping up competency became so problematic that it eventually dropped to just a single drivers link at certain depots before being dropped completely during NXEA days.

 

[LowLevel]

It used to happen in various places - on rare occasions when I first started as a guard a driver would offer to do the doors if travelling to work on a busy train so you could get on with tickets. I think with the shift in focus regarding platform train interface it fell well out of favour and wouldn't happen now, without formal training being involved.

 

[Signal_Box]

The town car at Stourbridge they are dual rolled so do a mix of driving & guard duties. As far as I’m aware that’s the only place on the national rail network it happens. You’re either a driver or a guard and that’s what you do.

Their also not employed by West Midlands Trains or proper network rail approved crew, the crew are employed by Perry the people who built the vehicles.

Many many many years ago under Silverlink drivers could be used as guards and where on occasion. I doubt it still happens under LNWR, it didn’t under London Midland.