Train fine panicking South Wales

[Bryan]

Hi,
I need help as I’m panicking.
My partner got on the train with me and we hardly use the train so didn’t pre pay or book a ticket.
We probably use the train once\ twice a year that’s it !
I got off the stop before my partner and went to buy a ticket straight away, my partner then rung me asking where we got on at ?
I know he had a stupid 5 minutes and I appreciate that completely, he told the train guy that he got on the same stop as me which is a shorter journey! The guy took his details and he admitted lied.
I’m panicking like hell now because we have never done anything bad in our lives and I don’t want him to go to court or have a criminal record for one stupid error ?
Can you help really worried

 

[Bryan]

Hi,
I need help as I’m panicking.
My partner got on the train with me and we hardly use the train so didn’t pre pay or book a ticket.
We probably use the train once\ twice a year that’s it !
I got off the stop before my partner and went to buy a ticket straight away, my partner then rung me asking where we got on at ?
I know he had a stupid 5 minutes and I appreciate that completely, he told the train guy that he got on the same stop as me which is a shorter journey! The guy took his details and he admitted lied.
I’m panicking like hell now because we have never done anything bad in our lives and I don’t want him to go to court or have a criminal record for one stupid error ?
Can you help really worried

It also happened 17 days ago if that makes any difference

 

[Puffing Devil]

There's not much to do until you get a letter from the train company, then you can write back with your version of events.

Based on that exchange they may decide to prosecute (outcome = fine and criminal record) or settle out of court (outcome = payment and no criminal record)

You may want to post back when you have the letter from the train company. In the meantime, it would help those on here to know where you both boarded and if there was a ticket machine or ticket office at that station that was open/working, also your destination(s).

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Hi,
I need help as I’m panicking.
My partner got on the train with me and we hardly use the train so didn’t pre pay or book a ticket.
We probably use the train once\ twice a year that’s it !
I got off the stop before my partner and went to buy a ticket straight away, my partner then rung me asking where we got on at ?
I know he had a stupid 5 minutes and I appreciate that completely, he told the train guy that he got on the same stop as me which is a shorter journey! The guy took his details and he admitted lied.
I’m panicking like hell now because we have never done anything bad in our lives and I don’t want him to go to court or have a criminal record for one stupid error ?
Can you help really worried

The train company will probably write to your partner outlining their position and asking for his version of events.

From the circumstances you've outlined, the fact that your partner gave a false starting station means he likely committed an offence under Section 5(3)(a) of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889, in attempting to avoid payment of the correct fare. This does carry a criminal record upon conviction, so clearly going to Court is something that would be good to avoid.

The best way your partner can increase his chances of settling the matter out of Court is by responding to any correspondence received quickly, concisely and honestly, and offering to pay the unpaid fare in addition to the train company's administrative costs incurred in investigating the matter, and an administrative penalty. I wouldn't suggest a particular sum - but pay any settlement they do offer, if you want to avoid it going to Court.

The train company has 6 months from the incident to start proceedings in the Magistrates' Court, and in theory they do not have to contact you before doing so; in practice it is the policy of virtually all train operators to do this, if nothing else to clarify the facts of what happened.

Ultimately it does not seem an error to me; I am pro-passenger in my views but if you knowingly state an incorrect starting station in order to avoid a fare then I have little sympathy. It was a conscious decision, even if your partner now regrets it; and so unfortunately your partner must now carry the consequences, whether they be merely monetary, or also in the form of a criminal record.

Of note may be Transport for Wales' Revenue Enforcement Policy - whilst it is in no way binding, it does suggest that in the case of "Declaring an incorrect journey for personal gain e.g. declaring an incorrect origin", "prosecution will be unavoidable".

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

it would help those on here to know where you both boarded and if there was a ticket machine or ticket office at that station that was open/working, also your destination(s).

To be quite honest, in a case of short faring it hardly matters what purchasing facilities existed at the boarding station - if you give a false starting station a RoRA offence is clearly made out.

 

[Bryan]

Thank you for the replies, I completely respect and understand that he was in the wrong that day I’m not disputing that in anyway! I’m asking for advice as anyone would they don’t want their partner to be in trouble !
Do we look at getting a soliciter ?
What normally happens I’ve read other threads with people doing the same thing and they have not had a criminal record or been charged with that law ?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I’m asking for advice as anyone would they don’t want their partner to be in trouble !

I can completely understand that; nevertheless it was the claim that it was:

one stupid error

did not really seem congruous with the rest of what you described!

Do we look at getting a soliciter ?

There is little point; a solicitor cannot change the facts as they happened, and if it is ATW/TfW that have taken your partner's details, they have a fairly strong "no excuses" policy so it seems unlikely they would be able to negotiate a settlement that your partner could not.

What normally happens I’ve read other threads with people doing the same thing and they have not had a criminal record or been charged with that law ?

The outcome depends massively on the TOC(s) involved, whether or not there was a fraudulent intent, and even the country (as for example in Scotland this would not happen, as private prosecutions basically do not happen at all!).

 

[Greenback]

At this point I wouldn't even like to guess at what's going to happen, what with ATW having come to an end and been replaced now.

 

[Gareth Marston]

At this point I wouldn't even like to guess at what's going to happen, what with ATW having come to an end and been replaced now.

As TfW are also using TRansport investigations same as ATW ......

 

[Bryan]

At this point I wouldn't even like to guess at what's going to happen, what with ATW having come to an end and been replaced now.

Thank you, why do you think it would be worse or would they have left it ?

 

[Puffing Devil]

Thank you, why do you think it would be worse or would they have left it ?

We have no idea. It's a new operator, they may have a new policy, they may not. As others have said, they seem to be using the same organisation to handle their enforcement work.

Really, all you can do now is wait for a letter from the train company and post back here for some advice on how to proceed if it comes.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Reading between the lines the intention in the new franchise is to have a more softer approach for genuine mistake cases but to have a zero tolerance approach for deliberate evasion. Short Faring is the latter. As Puffing Devil says best thing to do is to report back once you have had letter from TIL.

 

[Bryan]

Reading between the lines the intention in the new franchise is to have a more softer approach for genuine mistake cases but to have a zero tolerance approach for deliberate evasion. Short Faring is the latter. As Puffing Devil says best thing to do is to report back once you have had letter from TIL.

Thank you for this, I haven’t slept at all and worried sick. I just don’t want it to have an impact on our future or for him to have a criminal record
How long does it normally take ? It’s been about 2 weeks now.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Thank you for this, I haven’t slept at all and worried sick. I just don’t want it to have an impact on our future or for him to have a criminal record
How long does it normally take ? It’s been about 2 weeks now.

They have up to 6 months to start proceedings - that is the only absolute time limit. In most cases, if there is not an excessive backlog and it is not a particularly complex case, you will probably hear back within 2-3 months.

Unfortunately it is simply a waiting game for now; if your partner is not changing jobs during the 1 year from any potential conviction where it remains unspent, and does not have clearances (e.g. DBS/SC), then a criminal record would primarily only impact things like insurance, where you will normally be asked whether you have any unspent convictions.

There is also a possibility that if they do go for prosecution and refuse to settle, they use the simpler Byelaw 18 - as that does not require them to prove any intent. That does not carry a criminal record, and would usually not need to be disclosed at all as it is immediately considered spent.

 

[Clip]

Thank you for this, I haven’t slept at all and worried sick. I just don’t want it to have an impact on our future or for him to have a criminal record
How long does it normally take ? It’s been about 2 weeks now.

There's no need to lose sleep over this - you cant undo what has been done. It will take a while for the letter to come and start saving some money towards the potential out of court settlement which i hope you will be able to agree with them too.

 

[Bryan]

There's no need to lose sleep over this - you cant undo what has been done. It will take a while for the letter to come and start saving some money towards the potential out of court settlement which i hope you will be able to agree with them too.

Thank you for this, really appreciate it ! I just don’t want it to ruin our future and this is what’s scares me the most I would rather take money out of the savings and give everything we can to not have a criminal record ! If he has never done anything before does that work in his favour ? I’ve never seen anyone on these forums have a criminal record ?
Just cannot stop thinking about it !
I know it was his fault but it was such a stupid mistake

 

[cuccir]

Thank you for this, really appreciate it ! I just don’t want it to ruin our future and this is what’s scares me the most I would rather take money out of the savings and give everything we can to not have a criminal record ! If he has never done anything before does that work in his favour ? I’ve never seen anyone on these forums have a criminal record ?
Just cannot stop thinking about it !
I know it was his fault but it was such a stupid mistake

What industry does your partner work in? To reiterate: a criminal record, lasting 1 year only, for not paying a train fare, is for most people not likely to be life changing. In fact, for many people it will have no effect, beyond the fine paid.

Either way, a criminal conviction leading to a criminal record is only the worst outcome. There are other possibilities: we can discuss these here if you want when your partner hears from the train company.

 

[Bryan]

What industry does your partner work in? To reiterate: a criminal record, lasting 1 year only, for not paying a train fare, is for most people not likely to be life changing. In fact, for many people it will have no effect, beyond the fine paid.

Either way, a criminal conviction leading to a criminal record is only the worst outcome. There are other possibilities: we can discuss these here if you want when your partner hears from the train company.

I have googled things so much and can’t see anyone who has been given a criminal record unless they are a repeat offender ! Can’t believe how stressful it is we haven’t received a letter yet and it’s been three weeks does that mean anything ?
Do you know the chances of them not taking the settlement? Want to get it sorted as soon as!

 

[Clip]

I have googled things so much and can’t see anyone who has been given a criminal record unless they are a repeat offender ! Can’t believe how stressful it is we haven’t received a letter yet and it’s been three weeks does that mean anything ?
Do you know the chances of them not taking the settlement? Want to get it sorted as soon as!

As mentioned before it could take a couple of months for them to send you something so you have to sit and wait it out im afraid.

You could try and ring their prosecutions department but they may not be able to help either as the report may still not have got to them.

Honestly stop worrying itll probably just end up being a few quid to settle with them so its not worth the bother. Just get on with day to day life till that letter arrives

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I have googled things so much and can’t see anyone who has been given a criminal record unless they are a repeat offender ! Can’t believe how stressful it is we haven’t received a letter yet and it’s been three weeks does that mean anything ?
Do you know the chances of them not taking the settlement? Want to get it sorted as soon as!

People have certainly been prosecuted under RoRA before as a first time offender, and they would get a criminal record the first time around. But it is true that, if a train company is to prosecute, they may decide to prosecute under the Byelaws rather than under RoRA for a first-time offence.

Three weeks is not a long time yet; there are six months from the date of the alleged offence for them to "lay an information" before the Court. If they are running very behind schedule, it is not unthinkable that they would only write, say, five months afterwards. But it is more common to hear back within 2-3 months.

There is no precedent whatsoever as to how TfW will deal with cases referred for prosecution, as they have only just taken over the franchise on Sunday. I know it's easy to say from behind a keyboard whilst not threatened by prosecution, but there really is no point in worrying right now: you will have to wait at least until correspondence is received from TfW before you can work out what their approach is and what the likely outcome is.

 

[LexMoran]

I have googled things so much and can’t see anyone who has been given a criminal record unless they are a repeat offender ! Can’t believe how stressful it is we haven’t received a letter yet and it’s been three weeks does that mean anything ?
Do you know the chances of them not taking the settlement? Want to get it sorted as soon as!

How did you get on with this afterwards ?