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Trainee driver ‘training contracts’

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Juliet Barvo

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I find this post intriguing due a female trainee driver has left Southern recently. I do know that Southern has asked for a substantial amount of money to be paid back for training cost etc. I have also heard that the female driver in question is trying to fight it, even though she did sign the contract.

Surprising that someone would choose to leave Southern as the T&C's are quite good. Can't even really describe the work as "Metro".

Many ways to challenge a Training Contract
The rule against penalty clauses
The clause contains a repayment provision if the employee leaves employment within a certain time frame after being booked on, or attending, a training course. Occasionally, an employee will argue that this type of clause is a penalty and therefore unenforceable. However, a clause of this nature will only be construed as a penalty if it imposes a detriment on the employee and this is out of all proportion to the interest which the employer is trying to protect. If the clause is proportionate, a genuine pre-estimate of loss and reasonable taking account industry norms there is less chance of it being unenforceable.
Restraint of trade
An obligation to repay training costs may have the effect of discouraging an employee to leave, and so be an indirect restraint of trade. This has not been fully tested in the courts so ensuring the clause is proportionate remains a key principle.
(A person may be advised that the repayment amount is so large that it deters people from leaving, and thus is a restraint of trade, and thus unenforceable, and chose to leave with the belief that a Court will not enforce the agreement).
Sliding scale of repayments
The clause provides for the rate of the repayment to be on a sliding scale according to when the employee ceases their employment. This is to reflect the fact that the longer the employee remains with the employer, the more benefit it receives from the employee’s attendance on the training course. The amount of the repayment and its corresponding timescale will be relevant to determining whether the clause is a penalty clause. Employers should avoid making the repayment period too long as it may indirectly discriminate against employees on grounds of age, sex or disability. This is because it is arguable that female, older or disabled workers are often less able than others to remain in continuous employment for prolonged periods of time.
Proprietary estoppel and laches
1.
an assurance of sufficient clarity;
2. [reasonable] reliance on that assurance; and
3. detriment in consequence of the reasonable reliance.
i.e. Job not as described

Laches is the principle that the claimant who seeks an equitable remedy must come to the court quickly once he knows his rights are being infringed i.e. you snooze you lose.
 
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Chrysalis

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I find this post intriguing due a female trainee driver has left Southern recently. I do know that Southern has asked for a substantial amount of money to be paid back for training cost etc. I have also heard that the female driver in question is trying to fight it, even though she did sign the contract.
Out of curiosity, why does it matter that she's female?

Also out of curiosity, is she leaving because she failed the training or is it out of free will?
 

Mattydo

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That sounds about right, given it’s not just the training but also other people’s time that’s being used.


The difference being be that if you’re paying for it yourself you can keep retaking the previously failed exams (elsewhere if necessary) until you do pass, and that’s what a lot of them will do.
Not entirely true. Most of the linked integrated training schemes that result in a job with a specific airline have a two strike rule as the airline lacks confidence at that point. Beyond that, with the new MPL scheme, this leaves trainees with a fairly useless (and expensive) qualification if the "sponsoring" airline doesn't take them on

Granted I still don't think the current system results in candidates being selected because of their skill over the depth of their (or their parent's) wallet, and that is why I have to say any movement in the same direction by the Railway industry should be opposed.

I find this post intriguing due a female trainee driver has left Southern recently. I do know that Southern has asked for a substantial amount of money to be paid back for training cost etc. I have also heard that the female driver in question is trying to fight it, even though she did sign the contract.
Diffent parts of GTR must operate differently in that regard. There's no bonding clause with TL for example.
 

TheGoldfish

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Never seen it enforced …. The legal fees alone just wouldn’t justify it ..(£5k wouldn’t even cover barrister fees)

peoples circumstances change all the time and the chances of a judge ruling against an individual in anything but exceptional circumstances would be unheard of.
 
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I'm a trainee driver and have one of these contracts. Essentially it's £5k if I don't finish the course or leave within 2 years once I have qualified and move to another TOC. There are mitigating circumstances that will mean you don't have to pay (can't think of all of them off the top of my head) but they would give you an out for many reasons.

Given the amount they want, I really can't see them chasing you through court to get it back in the vast majority of cases
 

T-Karmel

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From some conversations years ago I remember someone telling me it was £8k in GWR for couple of years after passing out. But I might be mixing the figures or length of it now.

Supposedly they can recoup some of it from the final payment, and then just not worry about the remainder?

Someone said in this thread it's a red flag if company wants a repayment in case you fail, but is it really? To a person who was offered a training contract in the first place, does it make that much of a difference? You passed all The OPC and DMI, you've got a nice skillset suiting the job. You're already considered a good candidate, you're now very likely to go through entire training programme and pass the exams, as most do.
 

Stigy

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I would have thought it was the norm to have a trainee contract, as Trainee Driver is a role in itself until you’re qualified, then it changes to Train Driver?
 

Horizon22

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Out of curiosity, why does it matter that she's female?

Also out of curiosity, is she leaving because she failed the training or is it out of free will?

Indeed there is a myriad of reasons why someone might want or need to leave a role.

Please note: This was also discussed recently here and people may also find that topic (now locked) relevant.
 

Stigy

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From some conversations years ago I remember someone telling me it was £8k in GWR for couple of years after passing out. But I might be mixing the figures or length of it now.

Supposedly they can recoup some of it from the final payment, and then just not worry about the remainder?

Someone said in this thread it's a red flag if company wants a repayment in case you fail, but is it really? To a person who was offered a training contract in the first place, does it make that much of a difference? You passed all The OPC and DMI, you've got a nice skillset suiting the job. You're already considered a good candidate, you're now very likely to go through entire training programme and pass the exams, as most do.
I doubt if you fail to passout for whatever reason, that the TOC would pursue anyone for training costs.
 

RJ

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I know of several FOCs.

One FOC has Training Contracts for everybody it trains. It has a high turnover of staff. Some might say that a Training Contract for tens or hundreds of thousands of pounds is a form of Bonded Labour. Perhaps that is the only way it can keep a viable workforce.

Another FOC only has Training Contracts for people it has invested a huge amount of money in, even then that Training Contract is only for a fraction of the amount which has been invested, and very few people choose to leave that FOC as it is considered to be the creme de la creme of places to work.

So when it comes to Training Contracts - they're potentially a Red Flag which indicates you need to consider carefully if you really want to work there.

The business incurs significant costs in training people and are thus incentivised to retain employees, both to earn back their investment and to avoid having to train a replacement.

If they are up front about the terms of the training contract then it’s entirely up to a potential applicant if they want to proceed or not. For some people it will be a red flag and for others it wouldn’t. If I wanted that type of job it wouldn’t bother me in the slightest.
 
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The business incurs significant costs in training people and are thus incentivised to retain employees, both to earn back their investment and to avoid having to train a replacement.

If they are up front about the terms of the training contract then it’s entirely up to a potential applicant if they want to proceed or not. For some people it will be a red flag and for others it wouldn’t. If I wanted that type of job it wouldn’t bother me in the slightest.

I agree completely. I read my contract and it didn't change my mind about wanting to do the course.

These types of contracts aren't that uncommon where a business is investing significant time and money in training staff, and where there is a risk they could move to a competitor. Whether they are enforced often is another matter
 
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