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Trains that are late every day

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TUC

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Every morning when I travel from Selby station I hear the same announcement: 'the 0837 from Manchester Victoria is delayed by approximately five minutes'.

This has bern a regular announcement for several months. Anyone know why this train is always late by the same number of minutes and are there any other examples of this?
 
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bronzeonion

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Nearly all of the morning peak trains from Shepherds Bush heading towards Stratford, especially with DOO now. The problem with most of these regularly late trains is that the timetables are unrealistic. What gets me is the 08:22 from Shepherds Bush is always 2-4mins late leaving but waits 5 mins at Willesden due to slack. Why not distribute that extra 5mins by giving slightly longer dwell and journey times before Willesden? Least then the always late 08:22 will be the on time 08:24 or 25
 

yorkie

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Here's the train history for the 0837 arrival at Selby:-

http://raildar.co.uk/timetable/train/trainid/Y41679



Here are the 5 most recent ccasions it has terminated at Selby more than 5 minutes late:
  • Friday 6 December
  • Friday 8 November
  • Monday 4 November
  • Wednesday 30 October
  • Monday 30 September
Today it was on time. But yesterday it was 5 late at Micklefield, yet arrived Selby on time - that could explain the announcement, which doesn't take slack time into account?
 

High Dyke

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Every morning when I travel from Selby station I hear the same announcement: 'the 0837 from Manchester Victoria is delayed by approximately five minutes'.

This has bern a regular announcement for several months. Anyone know why this train is always late by the same number of minutes and are there any other examples of this?
If it's a 'Digital Doris' announcement then who knows...She seems to waffle on inanely at the best of times!

As an aside the train in question this week, so far, has not actually arrived late:

Monday 09/12 - arrived 3 early
Tuesday 10/12 - arrived 3 early
Wednesday 11/12 - arrived 1 early
Thursday 12/12 - arrived On Time
Today 13/12 - arrived 3 early

Looking at it one reason for the delay seems to be a result of 'leaf fall season'.
 
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tsr

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Regular cancellation issues for the 1647 from Redhill to London Victoria are getting on quite a few early-afternoon commuters'* nerves now. For one reason and another, it hasn't called at Redhill much at all of late. If you speak to them you can explain that it is all down to various different delays, but (understandably) that doesn't go down all that well, in any case.

The folly of trying to run this service within PPM success times is shown by the fact that it often ends up further delayed when trying to negotiate Stoats Nest Junction - something that no amount of infrastructure works there would ever fix, due to high numbers of workings.

One wonders if they will eventually leave the same amount of time in just to avoid Redhill and run up the Quarry. Of course, this isn't really a valid way of looking at things, but it would only annoy the passengers in a pre-planned, official way...

*A surprisingly high number exist, actually, and probably due to there being many employers with mid/late-afternoon shift time changeovers further down the line.
 
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IanXC

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The 19.58 Sheffield to Bridlington via Rotherham Central, Doncaster, Selby and Hull (without having looked at the figures) seems to be late much more often than it is on time.

Its a stopper between Sheffield and Doncaster, but as its booked a 158 struggles with dwell time. It seems to have to wait for a Hull Trains to go ahead at Doncaster. It gets forgotten about by the signaller at Selby from time to time. Catches the HT at Howden, the list goes on!

Having lost 10-15 minutes by Beverley is not unusual at all!
 

Bantamzen

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It's not quite the same, but most Bradford FS - Ilkley services are almost always displayed on the boards as being late at Guiseley, even when they are running on time. There seems to be a problem with the train location data on this stretch of line between Shipley-Baildon-Guiseley. It's always amusing to here the automated announcement advising that the train is approaching Guiseley just as it's actually leaving, it's thrown a fair few passengers I can tell you!
 

TUC

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Here's the train history for the 0837 arrival at Selby:-

http://raildar.co.uk/timetable/train/trainid/Y41679



Here are the 5 most recent ccasions it has terminated at Selby more than 5 minutes late:
  • Friday 6 December
  • Friday 8 November
  • Monday 4 November
  • Wednesday 30 October
  • Monday 30 September
Today it was on time. But yesterday it was 5 late at Micklefield, yet arrived Selby on time - that could explain the announcement, which doesn't take slack time into account?

That's interesting because they make the 'late' announcement every day but this is usually around 0810 but it gets back on time in reality. Odd that on other occeasions the system does not detect a late running train even ehen it is due but here it is picking one up around 25 minutes before its arrival-and in most cases it proves to be unnecessary.
 

sammyg901

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Hampton Court stoppers into Waterloo into the morning are shockers! A friend tries to make an "unofficial" 7 min connection into LO to Denmark Hill and pretty much consistently arrives at Clapham Junction as it's leaving.

Just seems to be the sheer volume of services and passengers - any little delay (especially in leaf fall) means the services are crawling into Waterloo
 

sarahj

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Every train that departs Seaford. Always at least 1-2 mins late into Newhaven Town. This is mainly due to the approach controled home signal* before newhaven harbour. Though even with a perfect departure from Seaford, allways over 30-40 secs late by Bishopstone.

* of course this week even more as the floods last friday did in the TC here, so all week the driver has needed permission to pass this signal at danger. So this week always been 4 mins late by NVH.

There is also a train from Victoria to Southampton/Bognor around 18.40 (ish) that is always a bit late. It crosses from the down fast, to the down slow at Gatwick and always looses some time, though it used to cross just before Three Bridges and used to be even later. Just impossible to keep on time.

Other ones that are always late are Brighton-Lewes and Seafords, dept around the 08.30-09.10 mark. So many students leave at Falmer, just impossible to keep time with the 1 min allowed.

On the whole Southern network there is a list of about 5 trains called peak killers. If these ones are only about 1-3 mins late, due to overloading at East Croydon or Stoats nest, they jam it up for everyone else. Not got the list to hand.
 

The Planner

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Every train that departs Seaford. Always at least 1-2 mins late into Newhaven Town. This is mainly due to the approach controled home signal* before newhaven harbour. Though even with a perfect departure from Seaford, allways over 30-40 secs late by Bishopstone..

The approach control should be accounted for, if it isn't then that is a schedule error all day long. Sounds like Seaford is a deficient SRT too...
 

Drsatan

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The 1656 from Salisbury to Romsey (via Southampton Central) usually departs Eastleigh a few minutes late due to long dwell times at each of the stations it calls at. This is because of the large numbers of passengers boarding and getting off at intermediate stations, who are invariably slowed down by having the first set of doors locked OOU on the 158 used, along with the narrow doorways and vestibules on 158s which don't make them ideal for commuter services.

The 1723 from Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central usually leaves Southampton a few minutes late too. This is because the 1532 from London Victoria to Southampton Central (which runs ahead of it) usually arrives late.
 
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dannypye9999

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The 17:25 Virgin Stoke on Trent to Manchester Picc is always delayed by around 4/5 mins. I use this train most weekdays and Ive even started to arrive at the station for 17:28 and can guarantee I will still catch this train.
 

Pumbaa

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The 1656 from Salisbury to Romsey (via Southampton Central) usually departs Eastleigh a few minutes late due to long dwell times at each of the stations it calls at. This is because of the large numbers of passengers boarding and getting off at intermediate stations, who are invariably slowed down by having the first set of doors locked OOU on the 158 used, along with the narrow doorways and vestibules on 158s which don't make them ideal for commuter services.

The 1723 from Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central usually leaves Southampton a few minutes late too. This is because the 1532 from London Victoria to Southampton Central (which runs ahead of it) usually arrives late.

SWT are currently going through the motions to get the first set of doors brought back into use now that GSMR negates the need to access SPTs. Many drivers on crush loaded Rounders will open the front door anyway.
 

trivran

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Supposedly one or two morning southbound FCC services at Hitchin are 'late' in the eyes of the clockface passenger timetable, but otherwise right on time in the WTT.
 

jon0844

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Supposedly one or two morning southbound FCC services at Hitchin are 'late' in the eyes of the clockface passenger timetable, but otherwise right on time in the WTT.

I don't think it's just the morning. Very odd as it makes FCC look bad for no reason.
 

applepie2100

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Scotrail evening services on the Argyle Line are very often late between three and anything up to ten minutes. 2L01 from Larkhall to Dalmuir is particularly bad for being delayed by seven or eight minutes most evenings.
 

JonathanH

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Regular cancellation issues for the 1647 from Redhill to London Victoria are getting on quite a few early-afternoon commuters'* nerves now. For one reason and another, it hasn't called at Redhill much at all of late. If you speak to them you can explain that it is all down to various different delays, but (understandably) that doesn't go down all that well, in any case.

The folly of trying to run this service within PPM success times is shown by the fact that it often ends up further delayed when trying to negotiate Stoats Nest Junction - something that no amount of infrastructure works there would ever fix, due to high numbers of workings.

One wonders if they will eventually leave the same amount of time in just to avoid Redhill and run up the Quarry. Of course, this isn't really a valid way of looking at things, but it would only annoy the passengers in a pre-planned, official way...

*A surprisingly high number exist, actually, and probably due to there being many employers with mid/late-afternoon shift time changeovers further down the line.

What should be done with this? If it comes via Redhill it either delays or follows the 1651 departure. If the 1651 runs to time, Redhill passengers who plan to get the 1647 are no more than 10 minutes later to all of the destinations which the 1647 stops at.

Clearly this is a problem if you have a 1730 appointment in the Victoria area (I usually get the 1614 from Reigate and change when that is the case rather than connecting into the 1647 from Redhill) or a tight connection somewhere along the route but that can only be solved by the 1647 having better timekeeping.

What causes its delays? The turnaround looks tight for the Portsmouth portion but that is true all day.

Roll on the post-Thameslink timetable for Redhill - only four (?) years to wait.
 

thenorthern

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Cross City line seems rather late at times, Cross Country trains at Stoke-on-Trent seem rather late quite a lot of the time as well.
 

Silv1983

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Although not usually late into Manchester Victoria, most :30 past the hour Huddersfield to Manchester Victoria services by Northern are late into intermediate stations as the Liverpool bound TPE service (:26?) is almost always late into Huddersfield - resulting in a late departure for Northern. To top it off it will always depart on a single yellow and have to run at reduced speed for 3 or 4 minutes until the TPE gets 2 sections ahead.
 

tsr

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What should be done with this? If it comes via Redhill it either delays or follows the 1651 departure. If the 1651 runs to time, Redhill passengers who plan to get the 1647 are no more than 10 minutes later to all of the destinations which the 1647 stops at.

You're spot on. The requirement for the service is perhaps most keenly felt by those travelling up from the Horsham/Crawley area, who can be left with an inconvenient change of trains at Gatwick or Three Bridges. It's not of massive added value for many passengers North of Redhill, due to the timing of the 1651 from Redhill towards London Victoria (which clearly probably won't change any time in the near future, but it might be most useful if it could somehow be scheduled later!).

Clearly this is a problem if you have a 1730 appointment in the Victoria area (I usually get the 1614 from Reigate and change when that is the case rather than connecting into the 1647 from Redhill) or a tight connection somewhere along the route but that can only be solved by the 1647 having better timekeeping.

It is an issue, and you are being made to spend a rather long time making that journey, given the Redhill - London Victoria leg could be done in 27 or 28 mins (in theory). So your leeway for cancellations & connections is quite significant.

What causes its delays? The turnaround looks tight for the Portsmouth portion but that is true all day.

It's not usually turnaround at Portsmouth - if that's going to be an issue, the train is often further amended to turn round as far back as Barnham. It seems particularly prone to ever-increasing minor delays due to congestion on the West Coastway, and then when it gets to Horsham, it's rather late joining up, by which time platform staff might well be busy with something else - and then the train also may sometimes need to wait before accessing Three Bridges. The minor delays on the Coastway are literally caused by whatever flavour of the day is tainting punctuality. Sometimes there are level crossing issues, other signalling problems, train faults... you know what I mean; those 3 just seem most common, in no particular order.

Roll on the post-Thameslink timetable for Redhill - only four (?) years to wait.

But no doubt there may still be issues with congestion at the junctions at Redhill Station, and, to be honest, I can't really see much benefit for this situation even when Platform 0 is built.

(In an ideal world, you'd add a pair of "Fast Relief" lines from Earlswood to Redhill (with a new island replacing Platforms 3 & 4 at Redhill for the existing Platform 3/Slow Line & the new Up Fast Relief, and a side platform for the Down Fast Relief), and then as quadruple track from just North of Redhill to the area near the industrial estates just South of Merstham where the Quarry Line is very nearby. The Fast Relief lines would then cross over onto those - possibly via a dive-under through one of the yards. These yards would have their businesses re-sited to the land of the disused Goods Yards at Redhill, which would have been severed by Platform 0 (at least in part). A small number of sidings could be relayed and connected to the North Downs Line or even the Up Slow - for MPVs, Thunderbirds & test trains.

And how would all this help? Well, for example, late-running fast trains could overtake stoppers which could already have been allowed to leave Redhill, but both could stop there. If there was an incident at Gatwick, there would be more space on the Down Quarry & Down Fast Relief to queue trains, without restricting capacity for stopping services towards Redhill & blocking Stoats Nest Junction. The Down Fast Relief could maybe also open up new diversion routes & opportunities for faster freight & passenger services towards Tonbridge.)
 
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