I was sat watching the trains pass through Gobowen and wondered how the rules are followed relating to the wearing of masks? As I understand it (and I may be wrong!) masks are required in Scotland and Wales on public transport but not in England? As I was on my way to Glasgow at the time, would I be allowed to be mask free were I on the north bound service as it passes into Wales at Chirk, remove it again between Wrecsam and Chester then don it again as I passed through Gretna? Is it announced?
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Trains that cross between places with and without mask mandates
- Thread starter Goofle
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Yes, mask mandates only apply within the area of the relevant countries. If you know where the border falls, you could quite legally don and remove your mask as you cross the border. But staff may announce the mandate as applying "from" a given station, even if that isn't entirely accurate (for example, you're still within England for a good 5 minutes after leaving Carlisle).
Incidentally, the Welsh mandate is due to end on 28 March, though that date could be pushed back if Drakeford follows in Scotland's footsteps.
They say that, but then immediately follow on by admitting that it's only the law in Wales. So in effect, it's no more than a request outwith Wales.
There is nothing for them to enforce because there is no law, let alone condition of travel, being broken. Certainly, beyond the occasional announcement from guards thusly inclined, I have not witnessed any attempt to try and make anyone wear masks on TfW services in England.
There is only a requirement to wear a mask in the relevant place, so you can be unmasked right up to (say) Gretna Junction; from there onwards you could of course choose to be consuming food and/or drink. It is of course important to stay hydrated when travelling.
It is not actually enforceable though; notwithstanding the fact you can choose to eat or drink, anyone can self-declare an exemption from a wide range of reasons and there is no requirement for any evidence to be shown to demonstrate any such exemption.
I've not known the exact border point be announced on any train for this purpose but that's not to say it hasn't ever happened!
I visited Cardiff Central, Wrexham General and Central and travelled on two TfW trains (Cardiff to Wrexham and Wrexham to Bidston) last week and whilst there were some announcements automatic and manual no-one at any stage batted an eye at my not wearing mask. Indeed it seemed from my travels that all are taking a live and let live approach. Announcements are fairly prevalent with varying levels of how important it is (from "it's a legal requirement" in places like Scotland to "if you want to you can but it's up to you" in East Anglia) but from my travels no-one cares. I had an Avanti TM announce quite explicitly that it is "a legal requirement in Scotland so until we arrive in Carlisle you must wear a face covering that covers your nose and mouth at all times unless eating, drinking or exempt". On their ticket examination they said precisely nothing to any of the people who weren't wearing a face covering.
It strikes me that there's a level of concern about it being enforced that really isn't reflected on the ground (though I'm forcefully aware that my sample size is limited!) and most have moved to a very sensible policy of doing the announcements that they've been told by their employer to make and then just getting on with the day job.
Yes, I'd agree with that.
Yes, as always, the mask stuff is basically an online discussion where if you listened to people who really care about it, you'd think there was mega support in some quarters for mask enforcement. On the ground though, revealed preferences win the day; regardless of the opinion of individuals, people take the path of least resistance. Now, that strongly favours the maskless, as the appetite for enforcement has mostly gone away.
What will happen after March 28th? I've noticed a number of English trains have had signs and auto announcements removed.
John Luxton
Established Member
I did a trip from Chester to Shrewsbury last Wednesday and only about 50% of passengers were masked.
Most of those joining at Wrexham were not a few at Ruabon were, but some were not.
On return from Shrewsbury guard came through a couple of times collecting fares and checking tickets and he was not masked even in Wales!
It doesn't appear to be between Chester and Shrewsbury at least.
Staff aren't required to wear masks.
John Luxton
Established Member
All the other traincrew I observed including the buffet trolley attendant were masked. Just this one guard.
That’s their choice (or, possibly, their employers’ policies, which I express no comment on). The Welsh regulations are unambiguous and require masks only of those “travelling as passengers”.
John Luxton
Established Member
Well one could say there is moral obligation on the part of passengers NOT to comply as the rule clearly discriminates against passengers.
I have serious misgivings with the way Drakeford and his pals have handled Covid and have gone out of my way during his Welsh lockdowns to disobey his border policy. Has always reminded me of a wannabe Erich Honecher. 
High Dyke
Established Member
I travelled to Scotland at the start of the week. No announcement on the LNER service as we passed the border, but arriving at Edinburgh Waverley passengers were advised of the requirement (unless exempt) to wear a mask. Returning via Avanti, a reminder was announced prior to departing Glasgow Central, but upon arriving at Carlisle the "mask wearing is optional" announcement was made.
Ive noticed a large number of guard have ditched the masks now, mainly the English ones (even within Wales). There are a few who announce that it is still mandatory in Wales, presumably because they are told to, but then come through without one themselves. 99% dont enforce mask wearing, but thats a job for BTP - who themselves dont enforce it most of the time these days.
Having travelled TfW a number of times the past few weeks via Wrexham to Shrewsbury, I have noticed on most journeys its less than 50% masked passengers too.
Personally I couldnt care less if people are wearing one or not, just sharing my observations!
That may be the case but from my observations most staff in Wales are still wearing them whilst passengers are increasingly not interested.
U-Bahnfreund
Member
I travelled on a train from Vienna to Budapest in September last year, when mask mandates where effective in Austria, but not in Hungary (they later reintroduced them). Shortly before arriving at Hegyeshalom (Hungarian border station) the ÖBB staff announced that "you are now free to take off your mask".
this issue just shows how stupid politicians are with their agendas. How does a covid virus know when it crosses the border, either the mask is required for health reasons or its not, I also need to point out that there was minimal enforcement of this rule by train staff and the police throughout the pandemic. Even today you are still meant to wear masks on trains in scotland but on the service i was on yesterday evening about 50% of people were wearing them . Politicians are just trying to appeal to the people who think will vote for them with rational public health coming second
John Luxton
Established Member
Exactly it has been political all along. One only has to look at how people were deliberately scared during the extra Welsh lockdowns. A few police with the media (usually Reach plc) in tow would target well known tourist locations. And of course three would be reports of day trippers from all over the UK being stopped at places such as Betws-y-Coed, Storey Arms, Pen-y-pass etc.
However, in reality enforcement was was really none existent.
Goodness knows how many times I crossed the border during Drakeford's lockdowns and never even saw a police car!
I did take some precautions such as not parking in popular tourist car parks and travelling early in the morning before or around commuter time.
Plus my preferred outdoor exploring clothing comes just happens to be from Barbour - thus I would probably pass off as a farmer,.
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