Tram Train idea for the York-Harrogate-Leeds line

[VT 390]

My idea for this line would be to introduce Tram-Trains on it. The reason for this are that it is quite a self contained line that is well used but with only 2tph.
The way this could work would be to have a new line containing on-street running where required leaving the current line after Burley Park but before Armley Junction, this would then have a stop outside Leeds station to maintain connections with other services and then could continue east or south as a tram route in Leeds. Also some other local stations could be build around Leeds and possibly Harrogate. The Tram Trains used on the route would have proper seating in the 2+2 layout with standing room around the doors also they could be high floor trams like on the Manchester Metrolink so the existing platforms can be used with minimal alterations.
The services pattern could be something like a service every 10 minutes off peak to Knaresborough with alternate trams calling at Weeton and Pannal as these are lower usage stops. There could then be additional tram trains if required in the peak possibly running as far as Horsforth. The local stations between York and Knaresborough would continue to be served by a local Northern service formed of 2 coached units which would require just 2 trains but if the line could be upgraded to have slightly faster line speeds 1 unit could be used, this service would terminate at Harrogate using a new north facing bay platform it may be possible to introduce additional peak train to York as well.
Alternatively if it was thought the demand would be there then the Tram Train could continue to York possible with a half hourly frequency but this would mean that there would probably not be capacity for the proposed LNER trains from York to Harrogate but a half hourly frequency could make up for this by having better connections.
There would be a number of benifits of this which would be:

• Harrogate would gain a much more frequent service than at present
• Usage of Local stations around Leeds could be increased with a more attractive turn up and go service
• Diesel units can be freed up for use on other lines with a maximum of 2 2 car units needed for York services
• The route could lead to more tramways opening up in Leeds including a possible branch after Horsforth serving the Airport
• Platforms are freed up at Leeds for increased services on other routes
• The line would be electrified which will mean better acceleration (especially with trams) leading to an improved journey time
• Some new stops especially around Leeds could open to improve local public transport

 

[yorksrob]

I don't like the idea of on street running, in Leeds in particular. It takes an age to get across it in a bus.

I'd prefer OLE and get some of these ex Thameslink units running it.

 

[edwin_m]

I think it would be possible to engineer a connection to street on the north side of Leeds station which would preserve the benefit of fast journey times but also allow the service to continue on-street around the city centre. I don't know Leeds well enough to say whether this might be worth doing or whether traffic congestion there would just destroy the reliability of the service (considering some tram-trains would probably have to run through onto single line beyond Harrogate). I think diversion as a tram-train through new development areas at the York end was briefly considered a few years back.

 

[30907]

For info: the Harrogate line is due to go to 4tph offpeak.
The classic tram-train routes have worked by extending into the commuter belt an existing tramway network which connected a poorly sited main station with its city centre.
I think it would be difficult to justify building a tramway through the centre of Leeds simply on the basis of the Knaresborough line, though if Leeds did get trams it might be worth exploring (it eases the problem of Starbeck LC!).
Leeds city centre is also not that far from its station.

 

[Bantamzen]

I'm afraid whilst the idea of a Leeds tram network is appealing, there is precious little chance of it ever seeing the light of day, especially from Harrogate. Leeds Council have been pressing for decades for a tram network, and have been knocked back every time. They couldn't even get the idea of a trolleybus floated, so trams are the ultimate Leeds pipe dream. In any case, the most likely candidate for any such network would be a Bradford-Leeds one (with a possible extension into the Spen Valley) which would serve much higher flows of passenger traffic than Leeds-Harrogate, and even this is very unlikely to ever get past the speculative stage.

And isn't it planned to have 4tph between Harrogate & Leeds in the near future anyway, including a King Cross every 2 hours as one of the 8 each way in that period? If so trying to argue for a tram-train really isn't going to get any traction (pun intended).

 

[adrock1976]

Regarding the London Kings Cross - Harrogate trains every 2 hours, are these going to run through from the York end (being as there are already 2 hourly terminators there), or from the Leeds side?

 

[VT 390]

Regarding the London Kings Cross - Harrogate trains every 2 hours, are these going to run through from the York end (being as there are already 2 hourly terminators there), or from the Leeds side?

I think that they are going to be extensions of the current York service.

 

[leedslad82]

I think that they are going to be extensions of the current York service.

I thought they were going to be from leeds with northern running a limited stop leeds harrogate in the path the other hour.

 

[Bantamzen]

I thought they were going to be from leeds with northern running a limited stop leeds harrogate in the path the other hour.

That's right, they will travel via Leeds and reverse to Harrogate, and the alternative hourly slot operated as a semi-fast possibly calling at Horsforth?

 

[30907]

That's right, they will travel via Leeds and reverse to Harrogate, and the alternative hourly slot operated as a semi-fast possibly calling at Horsforth?

Or Leeds via Hambleton to save the reversal, I don't remember?

 

[Bantamzen]

Or Leeds via Hambleton to save the reversal, I don't remember?

If I recall correctly, that was the plan as the basis that the Leeds-York & Leeds-Selby/Hambleton Curve were getting wired. With the delays to that project, I'm not sure if that plan remains or if it will go via Wakefield & reverse.