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Transdev Blazefield

Bwsbro

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Has anybody heard whether the Rosso public enquiry happened yesterday and if so, how it went?
It can take up to 28 days for a formal decision to a public enquiry answer if the Traffic Commissioner wishes to have more time to deliberate their decision.

Whatever the decision, their decision won’t affect the company. Even if the traffic commissioner decide to reduce the number of disks Rosso has 118 disk and less than half of what they have in vehicles, and that number will fall drastically when Stage 2 of Bee Network starts.

Plus of course there’s the Blackburn & Burnley licences that Rosso can piggyback on
 
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SCH117X

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Horrendous week for failures this week for the Starbeck based double deckers with, including the existing out of service ones, 2774, 3617, 3619, 3624 and 3627 all dead by the end of yesterday (plus possibly 3614 whose ventures away from the depot are increasingly limited). Some others were fixed during the week . Be interestering today given they need one for the 59.
 

NorthOxonian

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Horrendous week for failures this week for the Starbeck based double deckers with, including the existing out of service ones, 2774, 3617, 3619, 3624 and 3627 all dead by the end of yesterday (plus possibly 3614 whose ventures away from the depot are increasingly limited). Some others were fixed during the week . Be interestering today given they need one for the 59.
They managed to find a generic decker to put on it (2775) - good thing too, it was full and standing pretty much from Harrogate Bus Station!
 

M803UYA

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Whatever the decision, their decision won’t affect the company. Even if the traffic commissioner decide to reduce the number of disks Rosso has 118 disk and less than half of what they have in vehicles, and that number will fall drastically when Stage 2 of Bee Network starts.
A good starting point is knowing the prior history of the operator. Have they been before the traffic commissioner previously? If they have, and the decision was a fine then the next decision will be more severe. Restrictions on registration, reductions in numbers of discs....
 

Seehof

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A local retired postman (!) who seems to always have very accurate information about York’s buses, informed me today that some of the bone shaker “vans” have gone from the local York routes. He says the “blue buses” have returned but one has one leaf of its front door taking ages to open “and is now trapping people”. Is he correct about some of the minibuses going from York? Thanks
 

SCH117X

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A local retired postman (!) who seems to always have very accurate information about York’s buses, informed me today that some of the bone shaker “vans” have gone from the local York routes. He says the “blue buses” have returned but one has one leaf of its front door taking ages to open “and is now trapping people”. Is he correct about some of the minibuses going from York? Thanks
The West Yorkshire Information Service fleet list accessible at wyis.org.uk/ shows two of the Mellor Stratas, 68 and 69, moved to Keighley.

It also notes Envrio 200 753 has finally returned to service after collison damage last November

Also confirms that all 4 of the ex Cityzap Enviro 400s will be moving to Burnley and Starbeck depot Harrogate will be gaining two Geminis from Burnley
 
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Leedsbusman

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The West Yorkshire Information Service fleet list accessible at wyis.org.uk/ shows two of the Mellor Stratas, 68 and 69, moved to Keighley.

It also notes Envrio 200 753 has finally returned to service after collison damage last November

Also confroms that all 4 of the ex Cityzap Enviro 400s will be moving to Burnley and Starbeck depot Harrogate will be gaining two Geminis from Burnley
The return of 210 and 753 from repair has allowed the two Stratas to move to Keighley to cover the service uplift there.
 

SCH117X

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Transdevs competition between Harrogate and Knaresboorugh is ceasing from 6 November according to North Yorkshire Council
Service numberRoute descriptionOperator detailsPhone numberWebsite addressDate of changeChange to service
X1a, X1bHarrogate - KnaresboroughHarrogate Coach Travel01423 339600Connexions Buses6 November 2023These services will stop running. Alternatives are available on the Harrogate Bus Companies service 1, 1A and 1B
 

johntea

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Talking of that route whatever changes Transdev made to the '1' recently have made no difference whatsoever, there is literally zero point basing your journey on a timetable service and certainly not 'every 10 munutes'!

The only real way to plan your journey is look at the live tracking map on the app and judge on that, don't bother with the live times though as they often reckon a service will be getting from Knaresborough to Granby Corner in under 10 minutes...try tripling that number and you might have a more realistic estimate!
 

RustySpoons

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Transdevs competition between Harrogate and Knaresboorugh is ceasing from 6 November according to North Yorkshire Council


I'm not sure it'll have been much competition or a worry for Transdev since Connexions reduced to mon-fri off peak. Would be suprised if it even covered costs.

Talking of that route whatever changes Transdev made to the '1' recently have made no difference whatsoever, there is literally zero point basing your journey on a timetable service and certainly not 'every 10 munutes'!

The only real way to plan your journey is look at the live tracking map on the app and judge on that, don't bother with the live times though as they often reckon a service will be getting from Knaresborough to Granby Corner in under 10 minutes...try tripling that number and you might have a more realistic estimate!
What's the cause for this? Are buses getting held up at the railway crossing at Starbeck, or is it traffic or optimistic timetabling?
 

SCH117X

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What's the cause for this? Are buses getting held up at the railway crossing at Starbeck, or is it traffic or optimistic timetabling?
There have been a number of roadworks recently which will not have helped. There was an interesting case of a set in Knaresborough on the 1A route in both directions and the 1B in one direction which had the temporary traffic lights nicked on the Sunday eveninhg and it took until early afternoon on the Monday before anyone reported them missing!
 

pm2304877

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A good starting point is knowing the prior history of the operator. Have they been before the traffic commissioner previously? If they have, and the decision was a fine then the next decision will be more severe. Restrictions on registration, reductions in numbers of discs....
Again read the fleetlist and take note of the date buses were built These are facts which cannot be denied or covered up with Northern Ireland or cherished registration plates. Half the fleet built before 2005 is a major factor in Transdev's issues. It appears from posts that many are going down like flies. Either invest in new or mid life used buses, reduce the fleet size or operations or sell to another firm such as Stagecoach, Go Ahead or Diamond Bus. And when buying new buses keep them for 12 to 15 years. Volvo B7/B10B single deckers and Volvo B7 and ADL Tridents will not last forever and the cost of refurbishing older stock will be unsustainable In the long term.
 
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northernchris

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The only real way to plan your journey is look at the live tracking map on the app and judge on that, don't bother with the live times though as they often reckon a service will be getting from Knaresborough to Granby Corner in under 10 minutes...try tripling that number and you might have a more realistic estimate!

There does seem to be a glitch with the app recently where it's underestimating the journey time. Like how it thinks Saltaire - Bingley can be done in 4 minutes when it's scheduled for 9. The displays at the bus stops are much more accurate, although seeing where the bus is on the live map allows you to at least have an educated guess as to how long it will be until it reaches your stop.
 

Leedsbusman

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Again read the fleetlist and take note of the date buses were built These are facts which cannot be denied or covered up with Northern Ireland or cherished reg plates. Half the fleet built before 2005 is a major factor in Transdevs issues.vIt appear from posts that many are going down like flies.. Either invest in new or mid life used buses, reduce the fleet size or operations or sell to another firm such as Stagecoach , Go Ahead or Diamond Bus . And when buying new buses KEEP them for 12: to 15 years. Volvo B7/B10B single deckers and Volvo B7 and ADL Tridents will not last forever and the cost of refurbishing older stock will be unsustainable In the long term.
Harrogate has five buses built before 2005 which is quite a bit less than 1/2. All five of which are in service today so not entirely sure what you’re saying makes sense!
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Again read the fleetlist and take note of the date buses were built These are facts which cannot be denied or covered up with Northern Ireland or cherished reg plates. Half the fleet built before 2005 is a major factor in Transdevs issues.vIt appear from posts that many are going down like flies.. Either invest in new or mid life used buses, reduce the fleet size or operations or sell to another firm such as Stagecoach , Go Ahead or Diamond Bus . And when buying new buses KEEP them for 12: to 15 years. Volvo B7/B10B single deckers and Volvo B7 and ADL Tridents will not last forever and the cost of refurbishing older stock will be unsustainable In the long term.
You might look at a fleetlist and check out the fleet age...but then look at the work that they are employed on.

For example, the Keighley fleet. They have c.38 B7TLs dating from 2000 to 2007....but then look at how many are allocated to schools work that runs 37 weeks a year, 5 days a week. Of those 38 vehicles, only eight were actually in regular service. B10BLEs are school buses, as are a number of the B7RLEs. Of the frontline fleet, the Shuttle fleet of Eclipses does need replacement, and I'm sure a Transdev devotee can confirm, but I think electric vehicles are due to replace them.

So just looking at the fleet lists or tweets will only take you so far.
 

158756

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You might look at a fleetlist and check out the fleet age...but then look at the work that they are employed on.

For example, the Keighley fleet. They have c.38 B7TLs dating from 2000 to 2007....but then look at how many are allocated to schools work that runs 37 weeks a year, 5 days a week. Of those 38 vehicles, only eight were actually in regular service. B10BLEs are school buses, as are a number of the B7RLEs. Of the frontline fleet, the Shuttle fleet of Eclipses does need replacement, and I'm sure a Transdev devotee can confirm, but I think electric vehicles are due to replace them.

So just looking at the fleet lists or tweets will only take you so far.

I mean I agree with a lot of this, but Keighley's fleet is pretty ancient. Just looking down the fleetlist, is it true that they have nothing bigger than a Solo under 10 years old? Most of their frontline fleet is 15-18 years old. More than just the Shuttle fleet will need replacing soon.
 

SCH117X

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Again read the fleetlist and take note of the date buses were built These are facts which cannot be denied or covered up with Northern Ireland or cherished registration plates. Half the fleet built before 2005 is a major factor in Transdev's issues. It appears from posts that many are going down like flies. Either invest in new or mid life used buses, reduce the fleet size or operations or sell to another firm such as Stagecoach, Go Ahead or Diamond Bus. And when buying new buses keep them for 12 to 15 years. Volvo B7/B10B single deckers and Volvo B7 and ADL Tridents will not last forever and the cost of refurbishing older stock will be unsustainable In the long term.
Suggest you look a more detailed fleet list such as that offered by the West Yorkshire Information Service www.wyis.org.uk where a number of the older vehicles are actually withdrawn.
There is obviously going to a major fleet change next year with the arrival of the electrics at Harrogate which will see no doubt the older B7s withdrawn, already one has been;.
Looking at Bus Times for yesterday one Route 1 vehicle was running largely on time until the evening peak, another loss time from late morning and those losses gradually mounted up showing that the problem is variable congestion on the route. Maybe a longer layover at Harrogate is needed - the late running one was arriving a minute or two after it should have departed.
Didn't seem to be any vehicles on Route 1 fail yesterday but three 36 Geminis seem to have, and they are less than 10 years old - one Leeds bound at Harewood, and two which made it to Leeds but never returned.
 
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TheGrandWazoo

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I mean I agree with a lot of this, but Keighley's fleet is pretty ancient. Just looking down the fleetlist, is it true that they have nothing bigger than a Solo under 10 years old? Most of their frontline fleet is 15-18 years old. More than just the Shuttle fleet will need replacing soon.
The Shuttle fleet is the real glaring issue that skews the age profile of the frontline fleet. I'd also note that the Bronte Bus ones are of a similar age but they are in remarkable condition for their age, at least cosmetically. The Shuttle fleet is due to be replaced by electric vehicles - I think it was supposed to be this year but who knows with delivery times at the moment. With those and the Harrogate fleet enabling cascades, it seems likely that many of the oldest vehicles will be heading for Carlton!

For schools work, you don't need stuff that's newer than 15 years old. You'd never be able to compete against operators using fully depreciated vehicles. The only way that would change is if the tendering authority specifies a maximum age limit and then that levels the playing field for everyone.
 

M803UYA

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Again read the fleetlist and take note of the date buses were built These are facts which cannot be denied or covered up with Northern Ireland or cherished registration plates. Half the fleet built before 2005 is a major factor in Transdev's issues. It appears from posts that many are going down like flies. Either invest in new or mid life used buses, reduce the fleet size or operations or sell to another firm such as Stagecoach, Go Ahead or Diamond Bus. And when buying new buses keep them for 12 to 15 years. Volvo B7/B10B single deckers and Volvo B7 and ADL Tridents will not last forever and the cost of refurbishing older stock will be unsustainable In the long term.
Not sure what you're replying to, here as that's not what I put originally.

As @TheGrandWazoo has said - what is important is the type of work a vehicle is doing. An older double decker bus used twice a day, 39 weeks a year will be able to carry on for a lot longer than one used for 12-15 hours a day 7 days per week. Over time, you'd want to shift those 'new' buses through the fleet (rather than returning them to the lease company) so that they end up on lower mileage work. That or you rigorously maintain them.

The customer generally isn't overly concerned about the age of a bus, but I can tell you from experience that they're concerned about the state of one. Perfectly possible to have a 5/6 year old bus that's got the appearance of being dragged through a hedge backwards, and to have a 15 year old well maintained one with straight panels, shiny paintwork, freshly retrimmed seats and a new floor!

By your definitions, an operator of 15 year old coaches is running old vehicles that are chronically unreliable. Yet on a private plate, the vehicle is perfectly acceptable for most types of coach work.
 

SCH117X

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Simple facts - vehicles built before 2005
Elland, Halifax (Team Pennine) - 2
Idle (Flyer) - 0
Intack (Blackburn) - 9
Malton (Coastliner) - 0
Queensgate (Burnley) - 3
Queensgate,Burnley (Rosso) - 0
Rochdale (Rosso) - 0
Starbeck (Harrogate) - 5
Keighley - 40
Waterloo, Huddersfield (Team Pennine) - 3
York - 1
Total:62. Some way well below half the fleet that one person incorrectly claims
 

pm2304877

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Quoted from a fleet list
Simple facts - vehicles built before 2005
Elland, Halifax (Team Pennine) - 2
Idle (Flyer) - 0
Intack (Blackburn) - 9
Malton (Coastliner) - 0
Queensgate (Burnley) - 3
Queensgate,Burnley (Rosso) - 0
Rochdale (Rosso) - 0
Starbeck (Harrogate) - 5
Keighley - 40
Waterloo, Huddersfield (Team Pennine) - 3
York - 1
Total:62. Some way well below half the fleet that one person incorrectly claims
I stand by my estimation and I'm sure the Quack77 fleetlist (buslists.uk) is a regularly up dated fleet list. Transdev's older vehicles consists of Scanias, a quartet of BMC school buses (55/06 reg), four Optare Tempos and many Volvo B10Bs going back to T-reg (1998). This info is provided in good faith and with due diligence.
 
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SCH117X

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Quoted from a fleet list

I stand by my estimation and I'm sure the Quack77 fleetlist (buslists.uk) is a regularly up dated fleet list. Transdev's older vehicles consists of Scanias, a quartet of BMC school buses (55/06 reg), four Optare Tempos and many Volvo B10Bs going back to T-reg (1998). This info is provided in good faith and with due diligence.
Well the Optare Tempos are 2009 vehicles for starters, the six Scanias at Harrogate are 2010 and the only other Scania on that Quack77 list (1602) is withdrawn. the BMC School buses are not older than 2005; the oldest was new Nov 2005. The Volvo B10s between 1333 and 1344 are school buses.
 

M803UYA

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Quoted from a fleet list

I stand by my estimation and I'm sure the Quack77 fleetlist (buslists.uk) is a regularly up dated fleet list. Transdev's older vehicles consists of Scanias, a quartet of BMC school buses (55/06 reg), four Optare Tempos and many Volvo B10Bs going back to T-reg (1998). This info is provided in good faith and with due diligence.
Those vehicles primarily work schools contracts.

Therefore, they're on a lower annual mileage than a fleet of Volvo B5TLs which work Coastliner. Those school buses operate 39 weeks a year, out twice a day. Mostly.

School contract work is price sensitive - cheapest bid wins. Therefore, the value of the vehicle is of great importance when constructing a tender for this work. An older Scania double decker has a lower book value than an early 2010s Volvo B9TL. In some instances, school contracts are tendered for a 12 month term (West Yorkshire combined authority). Sometimes 3/5 years (in North Yorkshire's case).

If you have a 12 month schools contract, you're going to think in 12 month increments? Otherwise you could lose all your work and be landed with newer vehicles with a value still attached to them. An older vehicle could be sent off to scrap if there's no economic life in it. A lot of operators run on this principle. Quite a few North Yorkshire ones can be included in that assessment too.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Quoted from a fleet list

I stand by my estimation and I'm sure the Quack77 fleetlist (buslists.uk) is a regularly up dated fleet list. Transdev's older vehicles consists of Scanias, a quartet of BMC school buses (55/06 reg), four Optare Tempos and many Volvo B10Bs going back to T-reg (1998). This info is provided in good faith and with due diligence.
You're still not getting it. Yes, there's B10BLEs and B7TLs but they are almost all used as school buses. They go out for about four hours a day, five days a week, 37 weeks a year.

If you're doing due diligence, suggest you look at what the vehicles actually do e.g. https://bustimes.org/operators/the-keighley-bus-company/vehicles
 

SCH117X

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Also a stack of those B10BLE and B7TLs on that Quack77 list are out of service and most likely will be disposed off
B10BLEs 1043, 1046, 1053, 1058, 1071, 1332, 1337, 1338, 1343
B7TLSs 2439, 2712, 2721, 2723, 2724, 2728, 2736, 2745, 2754, 2755, 2785
A number of those were displaced by the arrival of the six 2010 Scanias from Nottngham specifically for school bus duties at Harrogate
 

pm2304877

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Quack 77 states that withdrawn buses are not listed . Yes the list may not be up to the minute, but there is. a list of changes for the 21 days leading up to the list date. Quack77 does an extensive, good and thorough job and a voluntary effort and does his best . And I must repeat that it was a response to a post that buses were "dropping like flies". School buses should only be up to 7 years older than senior school passengers as a rule of thumb. School buses expire like we all do and to still be running 25 y.o buses is unacceptable.
And where I have included buses built after the 2005 cut off they're not far off the end .
 

CBlue

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Quack 77 states that withdrawn buses are not listed . Yes the list may not be up to the minute, but there is. a list of changes for the 21 days leading up to the list date. Quack77 does an extensive, good and thorough job and a voluntary effort and does his best . And I must repeat that it was a response to a post that buses were "dropping like flies". School buses should only be up to 7 years older than senior school passengers as a rule of thumb. School buses expire like we all do and to still be running 25 y.o buses is unacceptable.
And where I have included buses built after the 2005 cut off they're not far off the end .


Who is paying for the increase in cost that would result from having to run newer vehicles on school contracts? Councils definitely aren't interested in paying any more than they currently do (and indeed rates from some authorities haven't gone up for years).

I can't see where you justify a 2005 cutoff, for example. You also seem to ignore the points above that maintenance of a vehicle and its age are two completely seperate things.
 

SCH117X

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Quack 77 states that withdrawn buses are not listed . Yes the list may not be up to the minute, but there is. a list of changes for the 21 days leading up to the list date. Quack77 does an extensive, good and thorough job and a voluntary effort and does his best . And I must repeat that it was a response to a post that buses were "dropping like flies". School buses should only be up to 7 years older than senior school passengers as a rule of thumb. School buses expire like we all do and to still be running 25 y.o buses is unacceptable.
And where I have included buses built after the 2005 cut off they're not far off the end .
Why not simply look at more comprehensive listing - www.wyis.org.uk

What about the school buses the authorities are happy to pay for used by other operators who comptete with Transdev for school runs ?

Bus dropping like flies has nothing to do with ther age - new buses can all develop common fault due to a faulty part being fitted.
 

M803UYA

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School buses should only be up to 7 years older than senior school passengers as a rule of thumb.
School buses expire like we all do and to still be running 25 y.o buses is unacceptable.
In your opinion?

You're entitled to your opinion.
I disagree with it. I'll explain why.

There's nothing wrong in operating an older vehicle on low mileage work 39 weeks a year. Provided you maintain it properly. Between 21/35 days buses and coaches receive an inspection in a workshop. That inspection covers every item that's tested on the annual MOT. The minimum period for safety inspections a traffic commissioner accepts is 6 weeks (around 35 days). So, between every 21 to 35 days a bus/coach receives a safety inspection to MOT standard. Should anything be found then the vehicle has that issue resolved before it's returned to service.

I see very few bus/coach operators called up for failing to maintain their vehicles to a roadworthy standard. So, we can assume from that either the industry regulator isn't very good at their job, the operators are extremely clever at avoiding detection, or more simply there's not many instances where vehicles are in operation that are 'unsafe'. You can be spot checked anytime by a DVSA examiner, by the local traffic police. A lot of vehicles get spot checked. I've been spot checked in my bus on my school run. Often. I'm not surprised at that - I'm driving school children in a bus. We wouldn't want to be operating an unsafe vehicle. I wouldn't want to go out in one. Nothing's ever been found on a vehicle I've driven. Perhaps I'm fortunate?

Transdev Blazefield happen to work for the same local authority as my current employer. They have a lot of school buses, so do a lot of work for that authority and the one next door. And continue to do so. They have their own inspectors who will spot check vehicles used on their contracts. Randomly - that way we're not going to know they're coming. Should anything be found they don't accept as part of their contract terms, that vehicle is off the contract. Potentially, so would be the operator! Whilst Transdev Blazefield might have their 'issues' running dodgy old buses isn't on that list of issues. I could point out that the 2015/7 Wright bodied Volvo B5TLs which work the Coastliner and the 36 are the ones which are getting into midlife and having constant engine issues. No surprise as it's a small engine mated to a big turbo to generate the power needed. See also Wright Streetlite/Streetdeck. Small engine overworking, and failing quicker. I don't like Streetlites, might have mentioned that elsewhere.

The likes of Johnson Bros in Worksop run a very nice fleet of coaches. Some are quite expensive and modern. Alongside that they operate a number of double deckers on school contracts. Around 14 years ago they decided to replace their Bristol VR school buses (newest of which would have been 27/8 years old and becoming hard to get spare parts for) with Olympians. Leyland Olympians not Volvos - the latter are infamous for their use of recycled steel, so the rot is present at build. They've had shorter working lives than their Leyland parents have because of this.

Whilst Johnsons have leapt into the low floor revolution with lots of mid 2000s Scania Omnidekkas from Nottingham there still remains a lot of Leyland Olympians on the fleet, working contracts. I think the newest of those would be L registered and last off the production line in mid 1993. They have been owned since 16 years of age. They've had as long out of the vehicles as their age when purchased.

A horrible 'old' bus.... but one that works 39 weeks a year, twice a day and is properly maintained in their fairly substantial workshop facilities. I haven't heard of Johnsons visiting the traffic commissioners for poor maintenance practices, so can only assume they must be properly looking after their fleet. I've never seen an untidy one on my travels. If you operate old vehicles, you're going to get attention from DVSA, so obviously you properly maintain the buses because you know they're getting stopped.

A lot of coach operators have front line vehicles (like bus firms) and then a pool of older ones which work school contracts. They can be between 10-15+ years old. They're doing fairly low mileages and could be sent out on a nice private hire job if needs be when things become hectic.

So, age isn't the issue. The real issue is how those vehicles are maintained. Maintain them properly and they'll run for a very long time. You can have a badly maintained 7 year old bus/coach that's going to be in the scrapyard a lot sooner and you can have a vehicle of that age in dire need of an external repaint, seats needing retrimming. The customer doesn't like a shabby vehicle. They want something comfortable, reliable and which will turn up when the timetable says it will.

That could be a 20 year old Wright bodied Volvo for all they care. I'm going to stop jumping up and down now as the mods will end up chopping this post if I keep going....
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Quack 77 states that withdrawn buses are not listed . Yes the list may not be up to the minute, but there is. a list of changes for the 21 days leading up to the list date. Quack77 does an extensive, good and thorough job and a voluntary effort and does his best
No one is criticising Quack for their efforts. It's just a recognition that it isn't as up to date as, for instance, the West Yorkshire Information Service
And I must repeat that it was a response to a post that buses were "dropping like flies"
Yes, but which buses were dropping like flies? The ones pootling around on schools for 4 hours a day, or those newer ones in frontline service that are actually much newer. As has been said, vehicles like the B5TLs have a small engine with a large turbo and they get hammered.
School buses should only be up to 7 years older than senior school passengers as a rule of thumb.
So nothing older than 18 years of age.
School buses expire like we all do and to still be running 25 y.o buses is unacceptable.
And where I have included buses built after the 2005 cut off they're not far off the end
As has been said, many operators run vehicles older than 18 years of age for schools. Firstly, they're fully depreciated, and simply are not worked as hard as regular vehicles. Think about it. They work 180 days a year, and even then, their working day is about 4 hours. Compare that to a regular service vehicle doing 12 hour days (or more) over 300+ days a year. They literally do about 20% of the work of a normal vehicle and as long as they are maintained, there's no issue using older vehicles on schools.

However, for sake of argument, let's say that you have a rule that nothing older than 18 years can work anything including schools, and this applies to ALL operators and not just Transdev. That means you are going to have to change the depreciation policies of all bus companies that generally work on a 15-17 year basis. How does that work out?

  1. Operators will have to depreciate vehicles on normal work over a shorter period, which means some services will no longer be financially viable OR
  2. Vehicles on schools work will not be fully depreciated and that may result in higher costs to the councils for which they have no budgets

Not certain that a blanket age cap is affordable, let alone necessary.
 

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