Transdev Blazefield

[RustySpoons]

I notice from Alex Hornby's twitter that there will be additional services coming to Burnley/Blackburn depots, with 40 new jobs created.

Source - https://twitter.com/alextransdev/status/1352243750202966018

I'm assuming these will be some of the below, which were all due to for renewal this March:

-Services 4/64/65/66/67 - Pendleside Rural Services
-Service 14 Burnley local service
-Service 15 Burnley - Rose Hill Circular
-Service 24A Chorley - Blackburn
-Service 95/95A Colne - Burnley Hospital/Burnley

Any other services seem a bit out the way for Transdev to operate.

That's interesting.

That'll pretty much see off every other operator in Burnley, which I hope won't be the case as that'll mean there'll be 40 other drivers out of a job...

 

[Andyh82]

I notice from Alex Hornby's twitter that there will be additional services coming to Burnley/Blackburn depots, with 40 new jobs created.

Source - https://twitter.com/alextransdev/status/1352243750202966018

I'm assuming these will be some of the below, which were all due to for renewal this March:

-Services 4/64/65/66/67 - Pendleside Rural Services
-Service 14 Burnley local service
-Service 15 Burnley - Rose Hill Circular
-Service 24A Chorley - Blackburn
-Service 95/95A Colne - Burnley Hospital/Burnley

Any other services seem a bit out the way for Transdev to operate.

That’s good news. I feel in areas where there is a strong commercial operators, the tendered services work best if they are run by the same operator as part of an integrated network. At the moment many of these tenders kind of just exist in the shadows

Like what they did in Keighley when they got the tendered locals back, and indeed like what they’ve just done in Rossendale.

 

[Ant158]

That's interesting.

That'll pretty much see off every other operator in Burnley, which I hope won't be the case as that'll mean there'll be 40 other drivers out of a job...

Will be good to see the main operator of East Lancashire take on some of these infill rural services.

There is only really Pilkingtons and Holmeswood left as mid sized independents who seem to win and lose these contracts. The annoying thing is that these contracts seem to change hands every time they go up for renewal. There may be job losses here.

It will be good for passengers if the likes of the Pendle village services are part of the Transdev network. The current set up is too disjointed. This will mean Transdev range of tickets can be used on the local services to feed the longer distance routes.

The Clitheroe local services were only taken on by Pilkingtons last year, replacing Preston bus, so I doubt these will be included. It would be ironic if they did considering that Blazefield used to run many of these routes when they took over the Clitheroe Stagecoach Depot. Also after Transdev saying Sabden didn’t pay they might be making a return to the village.

 

[Stan Drews]

. Also after Transdev saying Sabden didn’t pay they might be making a return to the village.

The big difference being they’d be returning on a LCC tendered service, and not their own commercial service. However, as you say there are many potential benefits to passengers using their wider commercial network, if they also run some of the key tendered routes in the same area. The 95 around Nelson is probably a good example of that. Catch it from the higher parts of the town (Marsden Park etc) down to the bus station, jump on the frequent Mainline service to Burnley/Colne etc. Similarly in Colne.

 

[RustySpoons]

I wonder if these changes will also include funding for later evening buses again on the local routes? The fact that outside of the Mainline and Witch Way there's no way of getting anywhere else by bus after about 19:30 which rules the bus out as an option for quite a lot of people.

 

[Deerfold]

The timetables are now up.

https://www.transdevbus.co.uk/...-links-otley-and-ilkley-21-feb

https://www.transdevbus.co.uk/...flyer-taking-otley-21-february

Those links are both broken.

They're at:

www.transdevbus.co.uk/keighley/were-bringing-better-links-otley-and-ilkley-21-feb

www.transdevbus.co.uk/flyer/flyer-taking-otley-21-february

 

[northern506]

That’s good news. I feel in areas where there is a strong commercial operators, the tendered services work best if they are run by the same operator as part of an integrated network. At the moment many of these tenders kind of just exist in the shadows

Like what they did in Keighley when they got the tendered locals back, and indeed like what they’ve just done in Rossendale.

I agree, provides better ticketing options for connections to Manchester etc, and hopefully it may increase passenger usage on the services too.

 

[RustySpoons]

I notice from Alex Hornby's twitter that there will be additional services coming to Burnley/Blackburn depots, with 40 new jobs created.

...

-Services 4/64/65/66/67 - Pendleside Rural Services
-Service 14 Burnley local service
-Service 15 Burnley - Rose Hill Circular
-Service 24A Chorley - Blackburn
-Service 95/95A Colne - Burnley Hospital/Burnley

I wonder...

The 40 new jobs they're 'creating' can't all be on the back of taking over a few subsidised services, I wonder if there's a buyout on the cards too which will involve a lot more staff moving over to these new jobs at Burnley and Blackburn?

 

[cnjb8]

I wonder...

The 40 new jobs they're 'creating' can't all be on the back of taking over a few subsidised services, I wonder if there's a buyout on the cards too which will involve a lot more staff moving over to these new jobs at Burnley and Blackburn?

What do you mean buyout?

 

[RustySpoons]

I mean buying out another company. Considering the main operators of subsidised services in the area are Pilkingtons and Holmeswood, taking on a few routes that they ran wouldn't fill the 40 new jobs Alex Hornby mentions they're creating. However, if they buy out the whole company then that'd more than likely fill the 40 jobs Transdev will have opened up.

It's unlikely to be Pilkingtons, they've spent a lot of money recently on their Accrington depot which would have been a waste of time as Transdev would more than likely want everything run from their existing depots.

A lot of the routes mentioned in Northern506's posts can be run out of Burnley, yet Alex mentioned jobs will be created in Burnley and Blackburn. So I'm wondering if Holmeswood's Blackburn operation will be bought out and moved to Intack? Alex mentioned '[expanding] our network in Burnley, Pendle & Ribble Valley..', so Holmeswood's current Ribble Valley services could operate out of Blackburn, whereas the Burnley and Pendle services can run out of Queensgate.

This is all purely speculation obviously, I could be way off!

 

[markymark2000]

I wonder...

The 40 new jobs they're 'creating' can't all be on the back of taking over a few subsidised services, I wonder if there's a buyout on the cards too which will involve a lot more staff moving over to these new jobs at Burnley and Blackburn?

For each bus, you are looking at around 2 drivers and if they won those services, that would work out at 10 buses worth of work. (95/95A/14 is 7 buses, 15 is 1 bus, 64/65/66/67/4 is another 5 buses). If we take into account Blackburn, you have the Clitheroe 2/3/5 & Clitheroe to Blackburn 25/25A LCC tender. That is another 5 buses. That's 18 buses worth of work.

Now, what I think is worth remembering is that somehow, Alex always seems to get more services out of councils. Look at the Rossendale area. It's only 1 extra bus but it's still extra to before. I think somehow he could get another 2-3 buses worth of work. That's maybe 21 buses of work which would equate to 40 drivers and jobs in both areas.

 

[cnjb8]

I mean buying out another company. Considering the main operators of subsidised services in the area are Pilkingtons and Holmeswood, taking on a few routes that they ran wouldn't fill the 40 new jobs Alex Hornby mentions they're creating. However, if they buy out the whole company then that'd more than likely fill the 40 jobs Transdev will have opened up.

It's unlikely to be Pilkingtons, they've spent a lot of money recently on their Accrington depot which would have been a waste of time as Transdev would more than likely want everything run from their existing depots.

A lot of the routes mentioned in Northern506's posts can be run out of Burnley, yet Alex mentioned jobs will be created in Burnley and Blackburn. So I'm wondering if Holmeswood's Blackburn operation will be bought out and moved to Intack? Alex mentioned '[expanding] our network in Burnley, Pendle & Ribble Valley..', so Holmeswood's current Ribble Valley services could operate out of Blackburn, whereas the Burnley and Pendle services can run out of Queensgate.

This is all purely speculation obviously, I could be way off!

Ok, but aren't the openings at Burnley and Blackburn?

 

[RustySpoons]

Ok, but aren't the openings at Burnley and Blackburn?

Yep, which is why I was thinking if they'd buy Holmeswood's Blackburn operations they'd move the staff and vehicles to Intack and run them from there, 'creating' the jobs in Blackburn and bringing more routes to Intack.

If they're just taking the Ribble Valley, Pendle and Burnley local routes from Pilkingtons they'd run them from Burnley, which would fill the jobs at Burnley.

This was all speculation on my part, and I could be completely wrong. Going off Mark's post above yours it does seem like I could be.

But unless they're taking on drivers from the companies they'll be taking the routes from then bragging about 'creating new jobs' is an unfortunate thing to brag about considering there'll be just as many drivers out of a job elsewhere.

 

[Andyh82]

I don’t know where this confusion has arisen. They’ve clearly just won a batch of LCC tenders, and will be employing drivers and possibly support staff to fulfill these contracts.

Holmeswood and Pilkingtons will still have other work, school services, and in the case of Pikingtons the commercial work they do in Accrington.

 

[markymark2000]

Yep, which is why I was thinking if they'd buy Holmeswood's Blackburn operations they'd move the staff and vehicles to Intack and run them from there, 'creating' the jobs in Blackburn and bringing more routes to Intack.

If they're just taking the Ribble Valley, Pendle and Burnley local routes from Pilkingtons they'd run them from Burnley, which would fill the jobs at Burnley.

This was all speculation on my part, and I could be completely wrong. Going off Mark's post above yours it does seem like I could be.

But unless they're taking on drivers from the companies they'll be taking the routes from then bragging about 'creating new jobs' is an unfortunate thing to brag about considering there'll be just as many drivers out of a job elsewhere.

Alex Hornby has always been good at making a positive news story our of a negative. He could cut half a towns bus network and still try to throw a positive news story out there to throw people off the scent of what is really going on.

 

[philthetube]

Alex Hornby has always been good at making a positive news story our of a negative. He could cut half a towns bus network and still try to throw a positive news story out there to throw people off the scent of what is really going on.

This is hardly a negative, and in any case it is his job to but positive spin on things, if he puts negative spin on how many councils are going to consider his tenders favourably.

It is good news for the people of Nelson and Colne, their buses might run somewhere close to time, changes in passenger numbers will be interesting.

 

[Ashly_Jethro]

This is hardly a negative, and in any case it is his job to but positive spin on things, if he puts negative spin on how many councils are going to consider his tenders favourably.

It is good news for the people of Nelson and Colne, their buses might run somewhere close to time, changes in passenger numbers will be interesting.

Exactly, he’s not trying to throw the scent of anything. He’s won a set of new contracts fair and square. Not only does that mean a better service for those using them but it also means growth for Transdev. It’ll only be the same as what happened with Flyer and FlyingTigers old staff, some will stay with the company, some will join Transdev, and those that either don’t want to or don’t meet their standards will be left out. Can’t get fairer than that.

 

[markymark2000]

My comments have been taken way out of context here.
The contract wins should all fair, I do not dispute that (fairness will be determined by other operator who also put in bids). Transdev running the contracts could improve the quality ect. Again, no issues.



My comments were meant solely in reply to the post quoted and do not reflect the wider thread. This specific quote which my reply was aimed towards.

But unless they're taking on drivers from the companies they'll be taking the routes from then bragging about 'creating new jobs' is an unfortunate thing to brag about considering there'll be just as many drivers out of a job elsewhere.

 

[cnjb8]

Yep, which is why I was thinking if they'd buy Holmeswood's Blackburn operations they'd move the staff and vehicles to Intack and run them from there, 'creating' the jobs in Blackburn and bringing more routes to Intack.

If they're just taking the Ribble Valley, Pendle and Burnley local routes from Pilkingtons they'd run them from Burnley, which would fill the jobs at Burnley.

This was all speculation on my part, and I could be completely wrong. Going off Mark's post above yours it does seem like I could be.

But unless they're taking on drivers from the companies they'll be taking the routes from then bragging about 'creating new jobs' is an unfortunate thing to brag about considering there'll be just as many drivers out of a job elsewhere.

Ok, I guess we'll have to wait and see

 

[Cesarcollie]

Ok, I guess we'll have to wait and see

If tenders have been won by a new operator then generally TUPE (Transfer of Undertakings, Protection of Employment) would apply. So subject to certain qualifying criteria, such as spending at least 50% of their time on the transferring services, employees have a right to move with no change to pay or conditions or length of service. That doesn’t mean they have to - if the current employer still has roles for them they are perfectly entitled to stay - but in theory at least no one should lose their job as a result.

 

[RustySpoons]

If tenders have been won by a new operator then generally TUPE (Transfer of Undertakings, Protection of Employment) would apply. So subject to certain qualifying criteria, such as spending at least 50% of their time on the transferring services, employees have a right to move with no change to pay or conditions or length of service. That doesn’t mean they have to - if the current employer still has roles for them they are perfectly entitled to stay - but in theory at least no one should lose their job as a result.

That's good to know, I didn't think TUPE would apply if it's just a tendered route changing operators.

 

[Bwsbro]

If tenders have been won by a new operator then generally TUPE (Transfer of Undertakings, Protection of Employment) would apply. So subject to certain qualifying criteria, such as spending at least 50% of their time on the transferring services, employees have a right to move with no change to pay or conditions or length of service. That doesn’t mean they have to - if the current employer still has roles for them they are perfectly entitled to stay - but in theory at least no one should lose their job as a result.

From my understanding unless stated in the original tender documentations and agreed to by the new operator, they are not obligated to take any former employee of the previous operator

 

[Swimbar]

That's good to know, I didn't think TUPE would apply if it's just a tendered route changing operators.

I don't think it does unless the new operator actually buys out the previous company?

 

[JetBlast]

If another IT firm wins a contract from another to support a company TUPE would apply. Surely it should also apply to bus routes?

 

[Anthony ross]

TUPE does apply to bus routes tendered by transport for london but not sure if that's the case elsewhere in the uk

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Ok - think there's a couple of things at play here so....

TUPE applies as per @Cesarcollie post. It applies if an employee is engaged in the transferring element of work for the majority of their time.

The tendering authority will tell tenderers that TUPE is not deemed to apply either as an outgoing or incoming element, and that does not involve the tendering authority. Hence tenderers should cost on their own terms and conditions.

Now should a firm lose most of their business to another (and that staff are predominantly employed on that work) then they could state TUPE applies, as in London. However, the reality is that for most instances

• Tenders are such a small element that losses are not that large in terms of heads - obviously in London, the size of tender moves are much larger
• Firms are generally short of drivers anyway so may wish to keep drivers
• Drivers may not wish to move as pay and conditions are much the same, they have some loyalty, or may have worked for the new operator before and don't wish to return

Hence why, in practice, TUPE does apply (as with virtually all businesses) but is usually not invoked

 

[RustySpoons]

A short video diary from one of the drivers at Burnley was on Granada News tonight, giving a brief insight into how they're keeping things moving during the pandemic

Life Under Lockdown - the bus driver en route for key workers | ITV News

Despite a lack of facilities and an abundance of snow, Papa Osaghae from the Burnley Bus Company is driven by the need to help others. | ITV News Granada

www.itv.com

Edit: It'd help if I posted the correct link... duh

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Jan 2021 ==

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(Below posted 28/1/21 - Forum automerged with my last post...)

Information on the LCC services Transdev are taking on.

As expected, my speculation on them taking over Holmeswood was way off!


It would appear that Burnley & Pendle are taking over the Pilkington services that currently serve the small villages between Nelson and Padiham, as well as the Pendle services. It does look like there are some changes to the current routes too, as the 65 doesn't currently serve the Hospital.

'Burnley & Pendle Local Services', listed as contract number '95', I'm assuming this is the comically long Holmeswood service that runs via everywhere and takes an age to get anywhere. I'm not sure if the Healey Wood and Rosehill service and the Ightenhill (is it still a circular??) services are included in this.

The surprising one is the 113, Preston - Bamber Bridge - Leyland. Not near any existing base and running as a Rosso service, more than likely out of Blackburn.

Another thing that came as a surprise, was that they received 7 tenders for the Burnley services. I didn't think there were that many operators left in these parts! Though thinking about it further, could Transdev have put more than one tender in? The minimum cost (which is how the tender was awarded), and a slightly higher cost but on the promise of brand new vehicles, etc, which would count as two tenders?

It's a shame there still aren't any evening services for Burnley locals being tendered, that would go a long way to making the bus a viable option for many

 

[peterblue]

Interesting it specifies it as being service 113 between Preston-Bamber Bridge-Leyland only - is it being curtailed from Leyland to Wigan then?

 

[Stan Drews]

Interesting it specifies it as being service 113 between Preston-Bamber Bridge-Leyland only - is it being curtailed from Leyland to Wigan then?

Is the Leyland - Wigan section operated commercially?

 

[Andyh82]

Stagecoach seem to run the 113 on a commercial basis, there are no notes on the timetable saying otherwise