Transdev Blazefield

[Stan Drews]

I like that the live map actually defaults to your location, rather than deciding it always wants to show you the company HQ as the old app did constantly.

On the old (Passenger app) defaulting to your location is based on the settings on your phone, not within the app itself.
Sounds like your location settings didn’t allow it to use your location ‘while using’ or ‘always’.

 

[SCH117X]

On the old (Passenger app) defaulting to your location is based on the settings on your phone, not within the app itself.
Sounds like your location settings didn’t allow it to use your location ‘while using’ or ‘always’.

Checked mine - the passenger app has location access but still defaults to Stabeck.

If you mean identifying the particular vehicle, (personally I'm not sure how much use this really is to most passengers, but people seem to like it), I really don't understand why they would get rid of the pictures, which everyone can understand, but keep the fleet numbers, which are only useful to a handful of enthusiasts. (I'm guessing the answer to this is that the Rise platform doesn't support the pictures)

Yes thats compaint I was referring to.

 

[Stan Drews]

Checked mine - the passenger app has location access but still defaults to Stabeck.

That’s strange, as it defaults to my location when I open it, and I’m a long way from Starbeck!

 

[Deerfold]

That’s strange, as it defaults to my location when I open it, and I’m a long way from Starbeck!

Mine showed Starbeck but zoom to my location within a second or two of opening the app.

The first 30-odd reviewers of the new App have given an average of 1.6 on the Android store (lowest possible is 1). No-one has given it more than 3.

 

[Andyh82]

The app is clearly not as good as the old one, but I imagine it is cheaper

I refer people to last weeks discussion in this thread when people were over analysing the Transdev Blazefield company accounts

 

[SCH117X]

A lot of the complaints on Play Store are login related and a constant complaint re the app is the lack of detail on the bus tracker with for example one author referring to difficulties in tracing 152s. What the new app does have is a map on the individual services, which the old app did not, showing the buses and the bus stops selected directionally. There is however a clear issue where two services overlap, more so when they are from different bus companies.

The journey planner includes other operators services - Harrogate to IIkley using the X52 (instead of always the A2) and X84 whereas the old app used only Transdev services a very long way round via Leeds and/or Shipley and Keighley.

 

[158756]

Not as good as the old one is an understatement. It is genuinely one of the worst, least user friendly apps I have ever come across.

Every time I look there are more problems. The bus tracker is absolute rubbish. It takes so many clicks to get anywhere. It's difficult to find anything. The timetables, if you ever find them, are a total mess.

You pay peanuts you get monkeys, or whatever the saying is for apps.

A lot of the complaints on Play Store are login related and a constant complaint re the app is the lack of detail on the bus tracker with for example one author referring to difficulties in tracing 152s. What the new app does have is a map on the individual services, which the old app did not, showing the buses and the bus stops selected directionally. There is however a clear issue where two services overlap, more so when they are from different bus companies.

You could easily get an individual service, or any number of services you liked, to display on the main map on the old app by selecting the route as a favourite, and have it there ready every time you opened the app. Now the main map is just a huge confusing mess which is little use to anyone. You also got the map for that route if you clicked on an upcoming departure - the new app takes so much longer to get between live departures and bus tracking. The inability to select stops from the map is such a big downgrade. The maps for individual services in the new app, on my phone at least, are really slow and clunky, and scrolling through the list of stops is a massive pain for longer routes.

On the point someone has made about the 152 not being at all distinguishable from the mass of orange buses, it is strange that an operator which has put so much effort into route branding has chosen to eradicate every trace of it from their app. A name like the Witch Way for example is so well known at this point that they are going to be confusing passengers by not using it. Again I am assuming this is a case that the cheap platform they've gone for doesn't allow routes with alternative or wordy names, or any non-standard colour schemes.

 

[RustySpoons]

Bit of fleet news, and bad news for the B10 fans! 1100 has already gone as it's MOT has run out - this one was branded for the 152 when new. The rest won't be far behind, they're due to be replaced along with the older B7RLEs by the Streetlites displaced from Rosso Rochdale, fleet numbers 612-619. These were the Streetlites that Rosso acquired before the Transdev takeover. Streetlites 601-611 have returned to the lessors.

 

[Seehof]

Am I right in thinking that there is a Zebra bid in to “electrify” the City Sightseeing and local York services? If so what is the point if they have already lost routes 22/23 to East Yorkshire and local routes 24/25/26 are subject to change and re-tender?

 

[YorkRailFan]

Am I right in thinking that there is a Zebra bid in to “electrify” the City Sightseeing and local York services? If so what is the point if they have already lost routes 22/23 to East Yorkshire and local routes 24/25/26 are subject to change and re-tender?

They'd still have 20 I believe.

 

[Andyh82]

Am I right in thinking that there is a Zebra bid in to “electrify” the City Sightseeing and local York services? If so what is the point if they have already lost routes 22/23 to East Yorkshire and local routes 24/25/26 are subject to change and re-tender?

Post 23 in this thread points out it’s a joint bid with York City Council (as most bids across the country generally are) https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/zebra-2-discussion.254219/

22/23 are not York local services, they are North Yorkshire tenders so are irrelevant to this bid

 

[SCH117X]

Am I right in thinking that there is a Zebra bid in to “electrify” the City Sightseeing and local York services? If so what is the point if they have already lost routes 22/23 to East Yorkshire and local routes 24/25/26 are subject to change and re-tender?

The matter is discussed in a York City Council report

https://democracy.york.gov.uk/documents/s173275/Local%20Bus%20Service%20Updates%20Report.pdf

73. All York bus operators were approached by CYC to bid for ZEBRA2 funding.
74. East Yorkshire Buses are entering bids with North Yorkshire Council and East Riding of Yorkshire Council, as electrifying Hull area routes was a better match for them. The other smaller
operators declined to bid, with the up-front capital cost and lack of technical resource and support cited as the main reasons. CYC officers have offered to meet with smaller operators to discuss
options for supporting them when the next funding opportunity arises.
75. Transdev expressed an interest in York ZEBRA2 bid and CYC submitted a bid by the 15th December 2023 deadline.
76. Transdev currently operate the Coastliner services, several suburban routes under the York & Country brand, and the red City Sightseeing buses.
77. The York ZEBRA2 bid is for the York & Country and City Sightseeing services. The much longer Coastliner routes are more of a challenge to electrify with current technology.

80. In order to justify their investment in new buses, Transdev have advised that they would need long-term contract security over the York & Country services that the buses would be used to deliver. Ideally, they would seek an 8-year contract (the maximum possible under English law), with a clause to provide mitigations against voluntary termination by the local authority.
Currently, CYC holds a contract with Transdev to operate services 14, 19 (Saturday), 20, 24, 25 and 26. These contracts are due to expire at the end of August 2024. A 3-year extension can be
offered, but Transdev are unlikely to accept this due to the ongoing operating losses they are incurring as a result of significantly increased operating costs and reduced patronage since the
services were tendered in 2019. An inflationary uplift would be included in the CYC’s extension offer but would still leave the operator in a loss-making position. The council cannot simply award a new contract to Transdev. Under the Public Contract Regulations 2015, a competitive tender will need to be carried out in 2024 to establish a new operating contract.

81. This brings about several challenges:
- Even without considering ZEBRA2, increased operating costs are likely to result in tender prices being 40-50% higher than they were in 2019 for a Euro VI-based service. The recent announcement of further BSIP funding mitigates this to some extent, however CYC is likely to need to make some difficult decisions on future tendered service provision. Some decision making may also be complicated due to the announcement that any future BSIP funding will be paid to the anticipated Mayoral Combined Authority.
- If CYC is awarded ZEBRA2 funding, it could opt to tender some or all of its services with an EV requirement. However, by doing this, the majority of local operators would be unable to submit a
compliant bid, leading to potentially even higher tender prices as a result of a less competitive process.
- If the ZEBRA2 funding announcement was delayed for any reason, the council would need to proceed with its tender regardless due to the looming contract expiry date. Unless an alternative funding source could be found, tenders would then need to be on a Euro-VI basis, with no guarantee that the operator would be able to make use of any ZEBRA2 funding should it be awarded at a later date...
- Ultimately, if the ZEBRA2 bid is successful, a decision may need to be made by the council as to whether to pursue a tendered network which is as extensive as possible, or one which is as
clean as possible but with fewer services.

85. If the CYC ZEBRA2 bid is successful, there are contractual and procurement implications that require further consideration and decisions before funding could be accepted for the York & Country
services. The City Centre Sightseeing aspect of the bid is more straightforward from a contractual perspective. However, a further paper to the Executive would be required to consider the full
funding implications.

 

[Seehof]

Thank you for this very informative and interesting reply.

 

[SCH117X]

On the subject of electrics, Harrogate currently has the Yutong U11DD double-decker demo which has been used on route 1 until this afternoon when it flipped on the Harrogate Electric services. Given they have ordered the Mercedes single deckers for the 1, I'm wondering if they are having second thoughts given the often standing room only situation on the current B7RLEs.

 

[Ashly_Jethro]

Bit of fleet news, and bad news for the B10 fans! 1100 has already gone as it's MOT has run out - this one was branded for the 152 when new. The rest won't be far behind, they're due to be replaced along with the older B7RLEs by the Streetlites displaced from Rosso Rochdale, fleet numbers 612-619. These were the Streetlites that Rosso acquired before the Transdev takeover. Streetlites 601-611 have returned to the lessors.

Having them replace the 02 plate B10s I can completely understand, can’t see an issue with them being used for 2/4, especially if frequency gets tweaked as a result. 1755 I think should stay, it’s one of the best eclipses Blackburn has given its extensive refurb in 2018, it’s currently fully kitted with WIFI, NSA, and USB with led aisle lighting, more than what can be said for the 58 plates. Can’t say I’ve ever been a fan of 1700.

Valley line, I’m praying they’re not stupid enough to have Streetlights as their dedicated vehicles, a full sized single deck struggles at times with passengers crammed in shoulder to shoulder, or at least having 90+% of the seats filled. I’d even go as far to say that if it wasn’t for the low bridge, they may even suit deckers, at least a peak times. I’d say patronage is probably on par with M2 which often has a Gemini or an MMC on at peak.

 

[SCH117X]

The Streetlights acquired from Rossendale are 41 seaters compared to 44 or 45 for the B10BLEs.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Valley line, I’m praying they’re not stupid enough to have Streetlights as their dedicated vehicles, a full sized single deck struggles at times with passengers crammed in shoulder to shoulder, or at least having 90+% of the seats filled. I’d even go as far to say that if it wasn’t for the low bridge, they may even suit deckers, at least a peak times. I’d say patronage is probably on par with M2 which often has a Gemini or an MMC on at peak

They could increase the frequency to compensate on the busiest parts though - maybe Roe Lee to Shadsworth?

 

[Ant158]

The Streetlights acquired from Rossendale are 41 seaters compared to 44 or 45 for the B10BLEs.

They may have a similar number of seats, but as these aren't as spacious as the B10s. It will be more uncomfortable when the buses are full.

Wonder if they will try and up the frequency on Valleyline to every 20 mins again, like they did with the 225 for a short time.

It is a shame deckers can't be used on the route, especially at peak school times.

 

[M60lad]

Out of interest is there a route 22 (Valley Lines) could take from Clitheroe that would avoid the low bridge?

 

[AlastairFraser]

Out of interest is there a route 22 (Valley Lines) could take from Clitheroe that would avoid the low bridge?

Well, they could take the Whalley Bypass, but that would miss out the interchanges for other traffic in Whalley, plus the substantial leisure and school traffic to Whalley and Billington. So unfortunately it's a non starter.

 

[Leedsbusman]

Well, they could take the Whalley Bypass, but that would miss out the interchanges for other traffic in Whalley, plus the substantial leisure and school traffic to Whalley and Billington. So unfortunately it's a non starter.

Wrong bridge.
The low one is at Langho station and could be avoided by turning off at Wilpshire and running to Salesbury then onto the A59 to the roundabout for Billington and Whalley. Double deck school buses for Billington and Clitheroe Grammar do this already.

Not suitable for the 22 and it misses Langho. The capacity needed is provided by an extra peak bus which is why there is both a 733 and 745 from
Blackburn to Clitheroe.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Wrong bridge.
The low one is at Langho station and could be avoided by turning off at Wilpshire and running to Salesbury then onto the A59 to the roundabout for Billington and Whalley. Double deck school buses for Billington and Clitheroe Grammar do this already.

Not suitable for the 22 and it misses Langho. The capacity needed is provided by an extra peak bus which is why there is both a 733 and 745 from
Blackburn to Clitheroe.

Interesting. So Blackburn's double deckers fit under the 4.5 metre bridge at Billington?

 

[Leedsbusman]

Interesting. So Blackburn's double deckers fit under the 4.5 metre bridge at Billington?

Yes - 4.4m or 14’6” is standard height for a Gemini.

 

[158756]

Wrong bridge.
The low one is at Langho station and could be avoided by turning off at Wilpshire and running to Salesbury then onto the A59 to the roundabout for Billington and Whalley. Double deck school buses for Billington and Clitheroe Grammar do this already.

Not suitable for the 22 and it misses Langho. The capacity needed is provided by an extra peak bus which is why there is both a 733 and 745 from
Blackburn to Clitheroe.

The question of how much capacity is needed on the 22 is distorted by extensive duplication with dedicated school services. Some of that would probably always exist because there is so much school traffic in to Clitheroe, but would any be cut if Transdev were able and willing to run deckers on the 22?

Mine showed Starbeck but zoom to my location within a second or two of opening the app.

The first 30-odd reviewers of the new App have given an average of 1.6 on the Android store (lowest possible is 1). No-one has given it more than 3.

Up to nearly 100 reviews now, and down to 1.3 stars. That is terrible by any standards.

 

[Leedsbusman]

The question of how much capacity is needed on the 22 is distorted by extensive duplication with dedicated school services. Some of that would probably always exist because there is so much school traffic in to Clitheroe, but would any be cut if Transdev were able and willing to run deckers on the 22?

It’s obviously a theoretical question because the bridge means they are not able to, converting the 2x 22 trips to DD would be a drop in the ocean as it would only add about 40 capacity.

Then it becomes a question of whether it is cheaper for LCC to pay Transdev to carry the pupils on the 22 or pay a contractor to do it.

 

[Ashly_Jethro]

It’s obviously a theoretical question because the bridge means they are not able to, converting the 2x 22 trips to DD would be a drop in the ocean as it would only add about 40 capacity.

Then it becomes a question of whether it is cheaper for LCC to pay Transdev to carry the pupils on the 22 or pay a contractor to do it.

The issue with running a second bus to make up for the extra required capacity is that people will just try to board the first one that turns up, so the first one will always end up being over crowded. Having a decker means and extra 40 people can travel in relative comfort that otherwise have to stand. It may still mean a single deck following shortly after but it would improve passanger experience for that journey. It also depends how far along the route passengers as are going, in most of them are going to whalley, billington, or wilpshire with only a small number for langho, it may also help even out to make the langho passengers wait for the single deck to follow and take the normal route.

They may have a similar number of seats, but as these aren't as spacious as the B10s. It will be more uncomfortable when the buses are full.

Wonder if they will try and up the frequency on Valleyline to every 20 mins again, like they did with the 225 for a short time.

It is a shame deckers can't be used on the route, especially at peak school times.

You’re very much correct there, the B10s and B7s are much more spacious and have a higher standing capacity. The streetlights would only worsen an already uncomfortable peak journey.

I don’t think a frequency change would help in this case, it’s mostly the peak times that cause an issue. If they were consistently busy through the day then that may be a viable solution.

Someone on another group pointed out that of the streetlites were to be used on 2&4, the eclipses and other full sized pool vehicles would be able to be freed up for use on 22. Especially if some of the Harrogate 58 plates make their way over too.

 

[Leedsbusman]

The issue with running a second bus to make up for the extra required capacity is that people will just try to board the first one that turns up, so the first one will always end up being over crowded. Having a decker means and extra 40 people can travel in relative comfort that otherwise have to stand. It may still mean a single deck following shortly after but it would improve passanger experience for that journey. It also depends how far along the route passengers as are going, in most of them are going to whalley, billington, or wilpshire with only a small number for langho, it may also help even out to make the langho passengers wait for the single deck to follow and take the normal route.

But you can’t run deckers due to the low bridge, so two singles it is and has been for years!

Someone on another group pointed out that of the streetlites were to be used on 2&4, the eclipses and other full sized pool vehicles would be able to be freed up for use on 22. Especially if some of the Harrogate 58 plates make their way over too.

Was that someone who knows or someone who is just guessing?

 

[Ashly_Jethro]

But you can’t run deckers due to the low bridge, so two singles it is and has been for years!

That was based on the assumption that 1-2 peak journeys took the alternative route that you mentioned.

Was that someone who knows or someone who is just guessing?

Autocorrect, was meant to say IF they were only allocated to 2&4. So yes, speculation vs fact but it’s the most plausible theory as yet

 

[RustySpoons]

Someone on another group pointed out that of the streetlites were to be used on 2&4, the eclipses and other full sized pool vehicles would be able to be freed up for use on 22. Especially if some of the Harrogate 58 plates make their way over too.

Does the 2 and the 4 have a PVR of 8 though, there'd be a lot of spare Streetlites floating around if not. Then again, as you mentioned previously I'm not sure they'd be all that suited to the 22 either, especially with the constant jolty gearchanges heading up towards RBH!

 

[SCH117X]

The West Yorkshire Informative Service fleetlist accessible via www.wyis.org.uk is saying the Streetlights are destined for Blackburn after refurbishment so not an immediate withdrawal of B10BLEs.