Which SR units had ETH jumpers other than REPs and TCs?
I think Class 442 (5-WES) have them.
Which SR units had ETH jumpers other than REPs and TCs?
Yes, good point. Though I don’t think the 33s got ETH with them in mind!I think Class 442 (5-WES) have them.
Which SR units had ETH jumpers other than REPs and TCs?
442’s had ETH connections in order that they could be rescued by ETH fitted locosWere they possibly thinking of a 33 and 442 combination to Weymouth Harbour?
Class 27/1 were the original push-pull control modification, with steam boilers, and 27/2 were the further change with the auxiliary electric generator. Trains had one of each.
They had to have a different firefighting system, also the 27/1's whilst not having the ETH generator had to be able to control the ETH generator.What modification was needed to the ones without generators? I had assumed that they just used blue star multi, and through-wired the coaches?
The early Mk2s were indeed through-wired, unlike the later 47 push-pulls which used TDM over the existing lighting cables. I assume the mod to the 27/1s was automatic operation of the fire extinguishing system, which is needed if there is no driver to operate it manually if a fire starts.What modification was needed to the ones without generators? I had assumed that they just used blue star multi, and through-wired the coaches?
The early Mk2s were indeed through-wired, unlike the later 47 push-pulls which used TDM over the existing lighting cables. I assume the mod to the 27/1s was automatic operation of the fire extinguishing system, which is needed if there is no driver to operate it manually if a fire starts.
OK, that makes sense as there would have been no real reason for them to have air brakes before that. But I guess they had the fire modification too, unless the need for that is more recent (which I think is unlikely, as DMUs had automatic fire systems well before the push-pulls started).According to Wikipedia, the 27/1 sub class covered the addition of air brakes, with half of them subsequently gaining the ETH modification to become 27/2.
It wasnt the Mk2 electrics that was the problem, it was asbestos, corrosion and early AC that was the problem . Also early AC MK2 AC stock swas 62 seat not 64 which also gave problems with advance reservationsTwo of the unsung achievements of the BR era were the train heating conversion from steam to electric, and the parallel change from vacuum to air braking.
It was all during the lifetime of the production of Mk2 stock (1964-75), after which everything had ETH and air brakes.
I used mostly WCML services which were early in the conversion (starting with Mk1 dual heat stock for electric haulage from about 1960), but it was surprising how long it took to convert the whole network.
Dual heat/dual braked stock (Mk 2c I think) became the most valuable stock on the network with their go-anywhere capability.
It must have led to the premature retirement of some steam heat/vacuum-braked stock, but that was the penalty for not starting the conversions earlier.
I got the impression that Mk2 electrics were not sufficiently robust either, leading to a relatively short life even for that modern stock.
My last memories of Mk2 travel were often in a coach without working lights!
There was dual heat stock right up to the arrival of aircon with Mk 2d, but hardly any dual brake. There were the odd one or two vehicles, but it was vacuum up to the initial Mk 2, and air brake only from Mk 2a onward, which came in 1967. Various vehicles such as Mk 1 restaurant cars and BGs were progressively changed from one to another to suit.Dual heat/dual braked stock (Mk 2c I think) became the most valuable stock on the network with their go-anywhere capability.
There were quite a few dual braked mk 1s, I think a few buffet vehicles, TSOs and BCKs and FKs to name a few, admittedly not many but they did exist. I agree preference generally was one or the other. You can easily release brakes if in air then going to vacuum and vice versa. Strings under frames would do that.There was dual heat stock right up to the arrival of aircon with Mk 2d, but hardly any dual brake. There were the odd one or two vehicles, but it was vacuum up to the initial Mk 2, and air brake only from Mk 2a onward, which came in 1967. Various vehicles such as Mk 1 restaurant cars and BGs were progressively changed from one to another to suit.
Dual braking of coaches was pretty impractical. For a start, there wasn't the underframe space for two sets of cylinders, and the rigging to the brake blocks from two different systems would be difficult. Getting the brakes off with say a vacuum loco when the train had been brought in by an air loco would be another challenge. So the locos were dual braked, quite a lot of them, but not the stock.
Did the Mk 2 actually have readily accessible strings ?There were quite a few dual braked mk 1s, I think a few buffet vehicles, TSOs and BCKs and FKs to name a few, admittedly not many but they did exist. I agree preference generally was one or the other. You can easily release brakes if in air then going to vacuum and vice versa. Strings under frames would do that.
The early Mk2s were indeed through-wired, unlike the later 47 push-pulls which used TDM over the existing lighting cables. I assume the mod to the 27/1s was automatic operation of the fire extinguishing system, which is needed if there is no driver to operate it manually if a fire starts.
Well this was always a mystery to me, being a regular user of the push-pull service both before and after the ETH conversion, that there could be an occasional substitution of a 25 or 37 at one end. Now I think about it, all the subs I can think of were at the Glasgow end, which was also the end that the 27/2 was formed at, so possibly they were back to steam heating - or nothing at all in summer. You could always tell when a Glasgow train was in its Platform 14 at Edinburgh, if walking along Waverley Bridge, which the Glasgow end loco would stand under - the noisy little Deutz ETH generator completely drowned out the rumbling tickover of the Sulzer. I wonder if the crew got fed up with it.The need for automatic fire extinguishers was cited in the rail press at the time.
Incidentally it was that change which restricted the push-pulls to class 27, until then any of 24/25/26/37 could be - and were - used in extremis