Transpennine woes and a moan...

[Watershed]

OK that sounds sensible thanks for the info. However I am guessing Liverpool to Newcastle is hourly??? If so , surely Lime st drivers could easily work to Newcastle , have a PNB then drive back to Liverpool.???

Yes, and indeed that's what some diagrams did (in pre-Covid days) for both Liverpool and Newcastle. I think York conductors might still have a diagram or two which involve end to end working - they are the only depot that sign the entire route.

 

[Seehof]

As a former York conductor who worked TPE routes, I prefer working end to end if possible. You kept continuity with the passengers especially if any needed additional help or assistance.

 

[childwallblues]

Indeed Liverpool to Glasgow would make an excellent out and back driver diagram, with the service fully resourced with just one driver there and back instead of perhaps 4 or 5.

Well the stock for 0812 Liverpool to Glasgow starts its day working from Preston to Oxenholme then to Liverpool. No 397 stock overnights at Edge Hill only 802 stock.

 

[MML]

What has happened with all the class 68 and Mk5 sets? AFAIK 2 sets shuttle between Scarborough and York all day, with a single peak service each day to Manchester Victoria (presumably to allow overnight maintenance in Manchester).
So there must be near 10 sets out of revenue service. Given the 68s are driven by DRS drivers and it takes less time to train a TPE guard to operate these services than to train a driver, then why aren't more North TPE services using the 68s thereby releasing 185 units and more importantly the Manchester based 185 drivers to ensure an hourly 6 car service is operated on the Southern route to Cleethorpes.
If necessary operating the Manchester Airport service to Scarborough and running the Redcar service to terminate and connect at York. The pool of DRS drivers don't appear to be very well utilized.
There are frequently 3 hour gaps on the Piccadilly to Cleethorpes trips and to top it all, we get an overcrowded 3 car 185.

 

[CAF397]

DRS drivers do not drive TPE passenger trains. TPE Class 68 driver depots are at Scarborough, York, Manchester and Cleethorpes, with Sheffield soon.

The reason the trains are not out in squadron force is mainly due to the reduced timetable currently being operated.

 

[Killingworth]

What has happened with all the class 68 and Mk5 sets? AFAIK 2 sets shuttle between Scarborough and York all day, with a single peak service each day to Manchester Victoria (presumably to allow overnight maintenance in Manchester).
So there must be near 10 sets out of revenue service. Given the 68s are driven by DRS drivers and it takes less time to train a TPE guard to operate these services than to train a driver, then why aren't more North TPE services using the 68s thereby releasing 185 units and more importantly the Manchester based 185 drivers to ensure an hourly 6 car service is operated on the Southern route to Cleethorpes.
If necessary operating the Manchester Airport service to Scarborough and running the Redcar service to terminate and connect at York. The pool of DRS drivers don't appear to be very well utilized.
There are frequently 3 hour gaps on the Piccadilly to Cleethorpes trips and to top it all, we get an overcrowded 3 car 185.

For a supposedly hourly TPE service from Sheffield to Manchester today we had departures at 5.08, 7.07, 10.11, 12.11, 16.11, 18.11, 19.11, 20.11, 21.11 and 22.11. Only 10 services of which 7 were 6 car.

Absences from a full hourly service are explained by a combination of long term suspension from current timetable, withdrawn before today so not showing in today's departures (a cancellation as far as passengers are concerned) and a cancellation due to a problem with the traction equipment.

EMR have run all their 15 hourly trains on this route today, 5 of 4 coaches, 2 of 3 coach 170s, the remaining 8 of only 2 coaches.

Northern have operated all their 16 trains and one bus on the route today. Of these 3 were 4 car trains, 8 were 3 car and the remaining 5 were 2 car.

Total 51 carriages from TPE over the day, 46 from Northern and 42 from EMR. TPE may win on total capacity, but which operator would you rely on?

Fugitives from the missing 8.11 were spotted at Dore catching the Northern 2 car service that departed Sheffield at 8.32 to arrive at Piccadilly for 9.41, a little later than the TPE service might have managed for 9.04. EMR's 8.45 3 car 170 would have got Sheffield travellers to Manchester for 9.38. Most others will have worked from home or gone for the car - as everyone will have to do tomorrow - a strike day.

My old 1960s cars usually started every morning, but they broke down now and then. Today I never give a thought to the car not starting and breakdowns are almost unheard of - congestion I'll grant can be a pain.

How can rail compete to attract more custom with such unreliable services? How does it retain so much?

(As I type I note the A57 Snake Pass is to be closed for 4 weeks from 26th September. Diversionary routes are available without using a train.)

 

[Jozhua]

The strikes situation is interesting. It is obvious that the government wants to get rid of the railways to as much an extent as possible, or at least get subsidies off the books.

They are using strikes as an excuse to justify their planned cuts to the railways and prove to the general public what an out of date fuddy industry it is. (which, frankly compared to most industries, the railways are hardly that much of an outlier in terms of modernisation or lack thereof)

Strikes hurt rail recovery of course, but then being able to successfully use this as an excuse to cut service is a leap at best. People don't take kindly to overcrowded trains and reduced schedules. This means government will end up spending the same amount of money, while getting less ticket revenue.

The anti-union campaigning has somewhat backfired, and actually the strikes seem to have been having a stronger effect on increasing union action in the past number of weeks.

Schapps needs to go, but so does the prevailing attitude at Treasury. Fiscal prudance involves not only knowing when not to spend money, but when to spend it and how to spend it well. If done correctly, railways can be a fantastic investment that pays dividends. Shame that doesn't seem to be the attitude in government.

Anyway, at least they saved loads of money on cutting investment in insulation for homes over the past few years. Bet they are really happy about that choice now!

 

[mike57]

The strikes situation is interesting. It is obvious that the government wants to get rid of the railways to as much an extent as possible, or at least get subsidies off the books.

I have been warning about the outcome of the strikes for a while, I think behind the scenes the government are actually relishing the strikes. It adds fuel to their plans to further restrict industrial action. It gives them an excuse to reduce rail subsidies, and reduce longer term investment. Because the TOCs are the ones at the front line on the employer side its even better because they can tie the hands of the TOCs while blaming them.

I think the Unions/workforce are heading into a bad place on this, personally I was always told pick your battles, and the current climate doesn't feel like the right time. I realise there may be a lot of resentment amongst the workforce, but taking action which is unlikely to acheive your goals is futile.

This isnt a Union or Government bash specifically, I am just trying to point out what I think the current landscape is. It has some parallels with the Miners strike in 1984, where everyone outside the industry could see that the Miners were not going to win.

The anti-union campaigning has somewhat backfired, and actually the strikes seem to have been having a stronger effect on increasing union action in the past number of weeks.

May be, but you have to look outside the rail industry, is the action going to change anything, even today, a strike day it doesn't seem to be the top item on the news. Is it going to make the government policy change? Probably not. Unfortunately for those who are taking action and losing money I don't see a lot of support. Back to my earlier comment, pick your battles. I also realise that there are a number of related issues, RDW, Pay, manning, and in a way that makes it worse as there isnt something that people focus on. Again from a public viewpoint I think there would be more support for the RDW, manning and safety issues than for a pay rise that is probably greater than most will see.

OK a bit off topic, but obviously its all wrapped up with the current TPE woes. Rail should be the optimum solution for moving people between York -Leeds - Maanchester, and Sheffield - Manchester, but currently its just not performing, that can only go on for so long before a Beeching Mk2 appears on the scene and wields the axe.

 

[childwallblues]

What has happened with all the class 68 and Mk5 sets? AFAIK 2 sets shuttle between Scarborough and York all day, with a single peak service each day to Manchester Victoria (presumably to allow overnight maintenance in Manchester).
So there must be near 10 sets out of revenue service. Given the 68s are driven by DRS drivers and it takes less time to train a TPE guard to operate these services than to train a driver, then why aren't more North TPE services using the 68s thereby releasing 185 units and more importantly the Manchester based 185 drivers to ensure an hourly 6 car service is operated on the Southern route to Cleethorpes.
If necessary operating the Manchester Airport service to Scarborough and running the Redcar service to terminate and connect at York. The pool of DRS drivers don't appear to be very well utilized.
There are frequently 3 hour gaps on the Piccadilly to Cleethorpes trips and to top it all, we get an overcrowded 3 car 185.

The 0654 Liverpool to Scarborough is still a Class 68 working.

 

[Watershed]

What has happened with all the class 68 and Mk5 sets? AFAIK 2 sets shuttle between Scarborough and York all day, with a single peak service each day to Manchester Victoria (presumably to allow overnight maintenance in Manchester).
So there must be near 10 sets out of revenue service. Given the 68s are driven by DRS drivers and it takes less time to train a TPE guard to operate these services than to train a driver, then why aren't more North TPE services using the 68s thereby releasing 185 units and more importantly the Manchester based 185 drivers to ensure an hourly 6 car service is operated on the Southern route to Cleethorpes.
If necessary operating the Manchester Airport service to Scarborough and running the Redcar service to terminate and connect at York. The pool of DRS drivers don't appear to be very well utilized.
There are frequently 3 hour gaps on the Piccadilly to Cleethorpes trips and to top it all, we get an overcrowded 3 car 185.

Many of them are in storage. Others are in maintenance, are having modifications done, or are being used for driver training.

DRS only drive them to move them around for rotation and maintenance, not in passenger service.

There are actually 3 sets out on the shuttles between York and Scarborough, due to the way the timings and diagrams work out.

 

[sjpowermac]

Many of them are in storage. Others are in maintenance, are having modifications done, or are being used for driver training.

DRS only drive them to move them around for rotation and maintenance, not in passenger service.

There are actually 3 sets out on the shuttles between York and Scarborough, due to the way the timings and diagrams work out.

DRS don’t play any part in stock moves for TPE, these are handled mainly by Rail Operations Group or occasionally Freightliner.

 

[Fokx]

I was always told pick your battles, and the current climate doesn't feel like the right time. I realise there may be a lot of resentment amongst the workforce, but taking action which is unlikely to acheive your goals is futile.

Absolute nonsense.

There’s been a three year pay freeze, and rather than the DfT addressing that they’ve chosen to go towards the route of making thousands of staff redundant through the closure of ticket offices and unmanned trains/DOO.

My mortgage, tax deductions, food, council tax, and energy suppliers certainly haven’t offered me a 0% rise

Now IS absolutely the time for all industries.

For a supposedly hourly TPE service from Sheffield to Manchester today we had departures at 5.08, 7.07, 10.11, 12.11, 16.11, 18.11, 19.11, 20.11, 21.11 and 22.11. Only 10 services of which 7 were 6 car.

That’s near enough right as not all services are 6 car.

From memory is the 5.08 and 22.11 is two of them as is the 17.11 (which couples up at Piccadilly for the 18.18)

 

[Killingworth]

That’s near enough right as not all services are 6 car.

From memory is the 5.08 and 22.11 is two of them as is the 17.11 (which couples up at Piccadilly for the 18.18)

It's the 'only 10 of them' part that bothers users more tban them being 3 coaches. On current use 3 woukd usually be adequate for most. It's currently far from a regular hourly service that can be relied on and their bumped passengers are distorting passenger experiences on the services of EMR and Northern.

 

[mike57]

Absolute nonsense.
There’s been a three year pay freeze, and rather than the DfT addressing that they’ve chosen to go towards the route of making thousands of staff redundant through the closure of ticket offices and unmanned trains/DOO.

I was not trying to belittle the problems, and I agree that a properly remunerated, resourced and funded rail industry is essential to its survival, I was looking at the wider political landscape and commenting that even if rail workers have a good case the current situation doesn't look good in terms of a successful outcome as far the current action is concerned.

• Government is wounded with no effective leadership until the in fighting over the party leader produces a winner, and even then it will take a while for any leadership to be established (if ever)
• Everyone one is affected by the current inflation, with worse to come, so less public support as many other groups are looking at well below inflation pay rises after years of nothing or close to nothing. And its not just the public sector, in my industry those on standard staff contracts are finding pay rises hard to come by, which is why they are leaving the industry or doing what I did 35 years ago and setting themselves up as sub contrators as this gives them more flexibility.
• Again from a goverment perspective I think railways are seen as a poisoned chalice by those in power
• The goverment are making noises about further restrictions on the right to strike
• Even when working normally there are significant problems across large areas of the network, Avanti, TPE and others. This isnt the fault of the front line workers, but they are going to get the fallout, and it erodes public support.
• The current structure with directly funded TOCs micromanaged by the DfT seems to produce a situation where any sort of negotiation is impossible because the employers have their hands tied. The cynic in me says this is deliberate government policy.

So I stand by my statement that the external landscape doesn't look good in terms of a successful outcome from the point of view of those such as yourself who find themselves on the sharp end of it. That is different from saying I dont think you have a case.

As to what happenes if the action fails to produce the hoped for outcome, I really dont know, I assume those towards the end of their careers will try and cash out, thats certainly whats happened around my industry, for those who are mid carreer its a hard choice, do you stick it out or bale out, and if you bale out what do you do. Either way the outcome tends to be that you lose the most experienced and valuable staff.

 

[Jozhua]

I have been warning about the outcome of the strikes for a while, I think behind the scenes the government are actually relishing the strikes. It adds fuel to their plans to further restrict industrial action. It gives them an excuse to reduce rail subsidies, and reduce longer term investment. Because the TOCs are the ones at the front line on the employer side its even better because they can tie the hands of the TOCs while blaming them.

I think the Unions/workforce are heading into a bad place on this, personally I was always told pick your battles, and the current climate doesn't feel like the right time. I realise there may be a lot of resentment amongst the workforce, but taking action which is unlikely to acheive your goals is futile.

This isnt a Union or Government bash specifically, I am just trying to point out what I think the current landscape is. It has some parallels with the Miners strike in 1984, where everyone outside the industry could see that the Miners were not going to win.


May be, but you have to look outside the rail industry, is the action going to change anything, even today, a strike day it doesn't seem to be the top item on the news. Is it going to make the government policy change? Probably not. Unfortunately for those who are taking action and losing money I don't see a lot of support. Back to my earlier comment, pick your battles. I also realise that there are a number of related issues, RDW, Pay, manning, and in a way that makes it worse as there isnt something that people focus on. Again from a public viewpoint I think there would be more support for the RDW, manning and safety issues than for a pay rise that is probably greater than most will see.

OK a bit off topic, but obviously its all wrapped up with the current TPE woes. Rail should be the optimum solution for moving people between York -Leeds - Maanchester, and Sheffield - Manchester, but currently its just not performing, that can only go on for so long before a Beeching Mk2 appears on the scene and wields the axe.

I was not trying to belittle the problems, and I agree that a properly remunerated, resourced and funded rail industry is essential to its survival, I was looking at the wider political landscape and commenting that even if rail workers have a good case the current situation doesn't look good in terms of a successful outcome as far the current action is concerned.

• Government is wounded with no effective leadership until the in fighting over the party leader produces a winner, and even then it will take a while for any leadership to be established (if ever)
• Everyone one is affected by the current inflation, with worse to come, so less public support as many other groups are looking at well below inflation pay rises after years of nothing or close to nothing. And its not just the public sector, in my industry those on standard staff contracts are finding pay rises hard to come by, which is why they are leaving the industry or doing what I did 35 years ago and setting themselves up as sub contrators as this gives them more flexibility.
• Again from a goverment perspective I think railways are seen as a poisoned chalice by those in power
• The goverment are making noises about further restrictions on the right to strike
• Even when working normally there are significant problems across large areas of the network, Avanti, TPE and others. This isnt the fault of the front line workers, but they are going to get the fallout, and it erodes public support.
• The current structure with directly funded TOCs micromanaged by the DfT seems to produce a situation where any sort of negotiation is impossible because the employers have their hands tied. The cynic in me says this is deliberate government policy.

So I stand by my statement that the external landscape doesn't look good in terms of a successful outcome from the point of view of those such as yourself who find themselves on the sharp end of it. That is different from saying I dont think you have a case.

As to what happenes if the action fails to produce the hoped for outcome, I really dont know, I assume those towards the end of their careers will try and cash out, thats certainly whats happened around my industry, for those who are mid carreer its a hard choice, do you stick it out or bale out, and if you bale out what do you do. Either way the outcome tends to be that you lose the most experienced and valuable staff.

I think it isn't unreasonable to say, as you are that, while you support the unions goals, there is a high chance of this backfiring.

The news cycle seems to have moved past rail strikes and the government doesn't care about the impact it has on people, or the economy.

Conceding may be seen to encourage more union activity, which they desperately want to avoid in the current climate.

Happy for this to be moved to a new thread btw!

 

[mike57]

I think it isn't unreasonable to say, as you are that, while you support the unions goals, there is a high chance of this backfiring.

The news cycle seems to have moved past rail strikes and the government doesn't care about the impact it has on people, or the economy.

Conceding may be seen to encourage more union activity, which they desperately want to avoid in the current climate.

Happy for this to be moved to a new thread btw!

I think it warrants a new thread, but I reckon it may be a bit controversial....so up to you, I will put hard hat on, welding apron and gauntlets, and retire to a safe distance

 

[yorkie]

Just a gentle reminder this is a railway discussion thread to discuss Transpennine woes and a moan...

If anyone wishes to create a new thread (if there isn't one already) to discuss anything else that warrants a new thread, please do create one.

 

[MDB1images]

Quite a lot of alterations on TPE Anglo Scots services from 12th Sep if what's on RTT is correct.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Internal *rumours* of a temporary timetable recast in september wont go away....

 

[mike57]

Internal *rumours* of a temporary timetable recast in september wont go away....

If it means you can plan a journey and have the timetabled trains running then whilst a sad reflection on the state of play it will be better than the current situation.

 

[LowLevel]

Internal *rumours* of a temporary timetable recast in september wont go away....

Anything would be better than the current random collection of trains running or not running as the case may be. It's unmanageable.

 

[Jamesrob637]

They’re not all booked 6 cars

The only Cleethorpes to Manchester train not booked 6 by March 2020 was the 20:26 from Cleethorpes which didn't really need 6 at that time of night anyway.

 

[Fokx]

The only Cleethorpes to Manchester train not booked 6 by March 2020 was the 20:26 from Cleethorpes which didn't really need 6 at that time of night anyway.

That’s no longer the case, there’s been several timetables since March 2020.

The 17.11 from Sheffield (15.26 CLE) is one of said trains that is diagrammed for a single set only

 

[Killingworth]

The only Cleethorpes to Manchester train not booked 6 by March 2020 was the 20:26 from Cleethorpes which didn't really need 6 at that time of night anyway.

Maybe it's a reflection of the current realities but I understand Northern's Hope Valley route is currently seeing ridership at over 130% of pre-Covid. That tallies with my own observations. Leisure doing well, commuting still very subdued.

Yesterday morning the 7.07 westbound from Sheffield was a 6 car 185. Today it was cancelled. Pre-Covid and during school term time that would have picked up 100 at Dore at 7.14. The following Northern stopping service at 7.20 might have picked up 10 for all the stops along the way.

Today there were about 45 waiting. The cancellation was known last night so some intending users would have avoided the railway altogether. I'd estimate 1/3 on the platform had not known of the cancellation before arriving at the station. They were very unhappy. A standard class Advance single for that train tomorrow would cost £18.10. I suspect one lady had paid for 1st; if so an Advance would have cost her £24.90.

Another 1/3 had realised they'd have to use the Northern service and were already prepared "it happens all the time." Their Advance single cost £7.50 and would get them to Piccadilly at 8.34, half an hour later than the TPE due at 8.03.

The final 1/3 were quite smug. Thanks to TPE's poor performance, both as to turning up and punctuality, Northen's 195s have won them over to be regular users, especially with that fare!

The 3 car Northern train had space for more, but probably left with about 85% of seats occupied. I'd be interested to know how full it got with commuters as it got into Manchester.

East Midlands Nottingham-Norwich was due to stop at Dore at 7.36. It arrived with 2 cars at 7.42, leaving at 7.44, due into Piccadilly at 8.36 - it seems to have arrived only 2 minutes late at 8.38 - but still after the Northern train. Only Anytime tickets available on that train - at £24. Very few takers!

 

[LowLevel]

Maybe it's a reflection of the current realities but I understand Northern's Hope Valley route is currently seeing ridership at over 130% of pre-Covid. That tallies with my own observations. Leisure doing well, commuting still very subdued.

Yesterday morning the 7.07 westbound from Sheffield was a 6 car 185. Today it was cancelled. Pre-Covid and during school term time that would have picked up 100 at Dore at 7.14. The following Northern stopping service at 7.20 might have picked up 10 for all the stops along the way.

Today there were about 45 waiting. The cancellation was known last night so some intending users would have avoided the railway altogether. I'd estimate 1/3 on the platform had not known of the cancellation before arriving at the station. They were very unhappy. A standard class Advance single for that train tomorrow would cost £18.10. I suspect one lady had paid for 1st; if so an Advance would have cost her £24.90.

Another 1/3 had realised they'd have to use the Northern service and were already prepared "it happens all the time." Their Advance single cost £7.50 and would get them to Piccadilly at 8.34, half an hour later than the TPE due at 8.03.

The final 1/3 were quite smug. Thanks to TPE's poor performance, both as to turning up and punctuality, Northen's 195s have won them over to be regular users, especially with that fare!

The 3 car Northern train had space for more, but probably left with about 85% of seats occupied. I'd be interested to know how full it got with commuters as it got into Manchester.

East Midlands Nottingham-Norwich was due to stop at Dore at 7.36. It arrived with 2 cars at 7.42, leaving at 7.44, due into Piccadilly at 8.36 - it seems to have arrived only 2 minutes late at 8.38 - but still after the Northern train. Only Anytime tickets available on that train - at £24. Very few takers!

The 0635 Nottingham to Liverpool, the 0736 from Dore, is booked to be a 2 car 158 and now that the December timetable has been published that seems to continue into 2023, it couples with the service an hour ahead at Liverpool to save a driver and unit diagram, consequently it reports as full and standing basically every day (today was no different) and there's few advances on it. There will be no interest in drumming up anything but premium traffic for that service.

When it was a 4 car service before there was a ticket vending machine at Dore or Chinley it was known as the credit card special - it wasn't unusual for the conductor to take over £1000 in card fares over the Hope Valley. Those days are gone of course but it still could do with being 4 cars again. Maybe one day!

 

[Metrolink]

To respond to the woes and moans of TPE I recently experienced three TPE journeys in July to visit family from Manchester Piccadilly - Hull twice and one return journey. The first round trip was nice. I had mistakenly reserved a non-table seat but the train was six carriages and almost empty. I had a full two hours with four seats and a table except for a small stint in West Yorkshire all to myself. Wonderful journey and as for most of the time on this particular route on time. Meanwhile a week later I had arrived just after noon on a Friday to see that the train an hour beforehand was cancelled so crowds were forming on the platform at Piccadilly almost up to the footbridge only to find a three car service trundle in. As always I sat in my reserved seat to watch standing all across three carriages and a woman who had a ticket to Marsden and then showed the conductor just as we passing through. Was full and standing to Leeds but for the core route of Transpennine I was disappointed in the arrangements given to the route. Manchester - Leeds is always busy and so is Hull on the occasion. All in all a very hit and miss (once again) service on Transpennine

 

[northernchris]

The 3 car Northern train had space for more, but probably left with about 85% of seats occupied. I'd be interested to know how full it got with commuters as it got into Manchester.

This is one of the effects of the performance issues on TPE - passengers at local stations suffer through either overcrowding or not being able to board. I wouldn't be surprised if it's impacting passenger growth at stations towards the end of the route - imagine waiting at places like Romiley or Garforth only to find the train is full of passengers displaced from cancelled trains.

 

[Meridian richard]

Maybe it's a reflection of the current realities but I understand Northern's Hope Valley route is currently seeing ridership at over 130% of pre-Covid. That tallies with my own observations. Leisure doing well, commuting still very subdued.

Yesterday morning the 7.07 westbound from Sheffield was a 6 car 185. Today it was cancelled. Pre-Covid and during school term time that would have picked up 100 at Dore at 7.14. The following Northern stopping service at 7.20 might have picked up 10 for all the stops along the way.

Today there were about 45 waiting. The cancellation was known last night so some intending users would have avoided the railway altogether. I'd estimate 1/3 on the platform had not known of the cancellation before arriving at the station. They were very unhappy. A standard class Advance single for that train tomorrow would cost £18.10. I suspect one lady had paid for 1st; if so an Advance would have cost her £24.90.

Another 1/3 had realised they'd have to use the Northern service and were already prepared "it happens all the time." Their Advance single cost £7.50 and would get them to Piccadilly at 8.34, half an hour later than the TPE due at 8.03.

The final 1/3 were quite smug. Thanks to TPE's poor performance, both as to turning up and punctuality, Northen's 195s have won them over to be regular users, especially with that fare!

The 3 car Northern train had space for more, but probably left with about 85% of seats occupied. I'd be interested to know how full it got with commuters as it got into Manchester.

East Midlands Nottingham-Norwich was due to stop at Dore at 7.36. It arrived with 2 cars at 7.42, leaving at 7.44, due into Piccadilly at 8.36 - it seems to have arrived only 2 minutes late at 8.38 - but still after the Northern train. Only Anytime tickets available on that train - at £24. Very few takers!

Ticket acceptance is in place with EMR so the two car 0736 struggles when a TPE is cancelled. I’m not sure how tolerant northern are being of the punters who board the 0720 with a TPE only ticket though.

A two car would cope well if it didn’t stop at Hazel Grove!

 

[Killingworth]

Ticket acceptance is in place with EMR so the two car 0736 struggles when a TPE is cancelled. I’m not sure how tolerant northern are being of the punters who board the 0720 with a TPE only ticket though.

A two car would cope well if it didn’t stop at Hazel Grove!

I'd say Northern conductors have been instructed to accept TPE tickets or are taking a relaxed view. They must be picking up regular revenue in increasing amounts as more discover the positive experience of a seat and space for a laptop to occupy themselves during a longer time aboard.

 

[BHXDMT]

Ticket acceptance is in place with EMR so the two car 0736 struggles when a TPE is cancelled. I’m not sure how tolerant northern are being of the punters who board the 0720 with a TPE only ticket though.

A two car would cope well if it didn’t stop at Hazel Grove!

EMR & TPE have mutual ticket acceptance regardless of any cancellations.

Northern & TPE have mutual ticket acceptance, but only if one of the others service has been cancelled.

So yes, if the TPE prior had been cancelled, they'd be fine on the Northern.