Transport for Wales Class 230

[Zontar]

I’ve heard that one of the sets rolled whilst on Birkenhead North Depot and that Stadler refused to let any leave pending an investigation into the cause.

If it's rolled...
How far are we talking? And why do all the sets need to be taken out of service. If it's an issue with the brakes, this is serious

 

[Steve B]

Looking at RTT they appear to be back in service today

 

[DLAYKEGER]

Yes agree its good they are back, but I do wonder if TFW are creating another own goal by having the empty coaching stock service from Bhead North EMUD to Wrexham Central arriving just before it is due to set off to Bidston. It was late leaving the depot which then delayed the 2nd service from Wrexham Central which we know can't reallly be caughtt up

 

[L401CJF]

Unsure what's going on down there today but both the 230 and 150 appear to have been suffering late running today. 150 missing in action (150260) after (delayed) 1130ish arrival at Bidston. Its currently still there dumped in the old siding beyond the station cold and dark. Showing as 5F62 on Traksy, arrived on 2F62.

150250 then came out to replace it after a cancelled trip or 2. 230 also had a cancelled trip (leaving 2hr gap) due to late running.

Got no further info, just a quick dig on RTT after a friend reported a 150 dumped at Bidston.

 

[SJ21]

Unsure what's going on down there today but both the 230 and 150 appear to have been suffering late running today.

Going to take a stab that it is wheel flat season, and the timetable is unachievable in it's current form

 

[L401CJF]

Going to take a stab that it is wheel flat season, and the timetable is unachievable in it's current form

The line is notorious for slipping around this time of year, but its not been quite as horrendous (so far) compared to previous years as far as I know.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Yes the timings are irregular, but I expect the planners have had to work around all of the freight movements that occur and therefore they're never going to get a "perfect" timetable.

"All of the freights" amounts to two daily steel trains and two cement trains, some of which are early/late in the day.
One of the paths is a Q path, and nothing runs north of Dee Marsh.
There's the odd light engine movement, and (this time of year) a leaf buster to fit in.

 

[paddyb6]

Unsure what's going on down there today but both the 230 and 150 appear to have been suffering late running today. 150 missing in action (150260) after (delayed) 1130ish arrival at Bidston. Its currently still there dumped in the old siding beyond the station cold and dark. Showing as 5F62 on Traksy, arrived on 2F62.

150250 then came out to replace it after a cancelled trip or 2. 230 also had a cancelled trip (leaving 2hr gap) due to late running.

Got no further info, just a quick dig on RTT after a friend reported a 150 dumped at Bidston.

150260 sent to Bidston Triangle Siding due to a reported 'Burning Smell' onboard the train.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Little report of what 230s were where on Thursday 16/11/2023.

Bidston Station (11:04 - 12:07).

150256 seen in service arrived on 2F62 at 11:33 (11:37 actual), departed on 2J64 at 11:33 (11:39 actual).
230009 seen on a training run arrived on 3T73 at 12:00 (11:58 actual), departed on 3T74 at 12:04 (12:01 actual).
230008 reported as on arrival 2F66 12:31 (12:56 actual), departure 2J68 12:34 (13:00 actual).
(we already had 230008 so did not hang around for it as other things were needed)

Birkenhead North Depot.

A fly past to & from Bidston revealed 230006 & 230007 in a siding on the North side of the line about halfway between Birkenhead North and Bidston (possibly visible from a hill/mound called Bidston Moss).

Moving around the West facing depot throat/doors was 230010 only occasionally visible, it had been in use the previous day and was due a service/inspection.

Recomendations.

So my recommendations are a couple of hours at Bidston Station and repeated trips to & from Birkenhead North Station. The service from Wrexham does not hang around at Bidston as it is a two platform station with a fairly intensive through service needing the platforms. We bought a £5.95 Merseyrail Day Rover at Chester Station to access the area for 230s and 777s.

 

[185]

Recomendations.

We bought a £5.95 Merseyrail Day Rover at Chester Station to access the area for 230s and 777s.

Just a reminder that most if not all of us from here would recommend avoiding the Merseyrail Daysaver/Rover scam, and use the 5p more Saveaway instead.

> This allows use of Merseyrail including to Chester, all TOCs within Merseyside, TFW's 230 as far as Heswall, all buses in Merseyside and the ferries.

That scam daysaver allows use of:

> Merseyrail, and err.. yeah.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Just a reminder that most if not all of us from here would recommend avoiding the Merseyrail Daysaver/Rover scam, and use the 5p more Saveaway instead.

> This allows use of Merseyrail including to Chester, all TOCs within Merseyside, TFW's 230 as far as Heswall, all buses in Merseyside and the ferries.

That scam daysaver allows use of:

> Merseyrail, and err.. yeah.

Thanks, that is worth knowing. Saveaway next time. Ticket office at Chester did not offer it.

 

[185]

If they're looking for it, it either comes up as MTRAV Saveaway All Zones or short code MTE, priced at £6 (or £3 kids) no railcards.

But somewhere like Chester, regardless of TfW running the place, should already know that - it's a heavily used product at Chester.

 

[Wyrleybart]

If they're looking for it, it either comes up as MTRAV Saveaway All Zones or short code MTE, priced at £6 (or £3 kids) no railcards.

But somewhere like Chester, regardless of TfW running the place, should already know that - it's a heavily used product at Chester.

Very useful info, and thumbs down to Chester booking office for not knowing local area preoducts

 

[JonathanH]

Very useful info, and thumbs down to Chester booking office for not knowing local area preoducts

Chester booking office will happily sell a Saveaway, but it does cost 5p more, so need the purchaser to imply that that is what they actually want.

 

[185143]

Chester booking office will happily sell a Saveaway, but it does cost 5p more, so need the purchaser to imply that that is what they actually want.

To be fair to them, most people wanting Merseyrail tickets that don't specify "Saveaway" will just be going to Liverpool and back, so a daysaver is the appropriate ticket to sell.

Though I FULLY agree with the thoughts that the daysaver is a scam, it may be a case of be careful what you wish for. If Merseytravel think "Yeah, fair enough, 5p difference is a joke." What's more likely to happen? Withdrawal of the Daysaver, or a quid or two being added to a Saveaway?

 

[CaergwrleKen]

Can we get back onto topic please?

There was a meeting with the rail users and it’s been announced by the TFW managers that a Class 197 and two Class 230 will be doing the new timetable from December. I am looking forward to this new era on our Borderlands line.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

With a really random, unhelpful (I can't think of the right word, what's the opposite of clockface?) service frequency...

0721, 0806, 0851, 0936, 1021, 1106, 1151, 1236, 1321, 1406, 1451, 1534, 1621, 1706, 1751, 1847, 1932, 2046, 2257 from Bidston, for example.

 

[3RDGEN]

Can we get back onto the subject please?

There was a meeting with the rail users and it’s been announced by the TFW managers that a Class 197 and two Class 230 will be doing the new timetable from December. I am looking forward to this new era on our Borderlands line.

There's no swapping of units showing from the December timetable so they appear to be trying to run the 2 * 230's for the full day, see how long that lasts.

With a really random, unhelpful (I can't think of the right word, what's the opposite of clockface?) service frequency...

0721, 0806, 0851, 0936, 1021, 1106, 1151, 1236, 1321, 1406, 1451, 1534, 1621, 1706, 1751, 1847, 1932, 2046, 2257 from Bidston, for example.

It's approx. a 45 minute "clockface" service during the day if you want to call it that, at least it's an attempt to improve on the hourly service but not the half hourly one long discussed. Northbound there's a gap between 15:58 & 17:41 from Wrexham Central with the inbound service turning at Wrexham General instead for the return service.

 

[Purple Train]

With a really random, unhelpful (I can't think of the right word, what's the opposite of clockface?) service frequency...

0721, 0806, 0851, 0936, 1021, 1106, 1151, 1236, 1321, 1406, 1451, 1534, 1621, 1706, 1751, 1847, 1932, 2046, 2257 from Bidston, for example.

Isn't it going to hopefully eliminate the horribly optimistic turnarounds though?

I'd rather have an irregular service frequency that is vaguely reliable than an unreliable, supposedly clock-face frequency.

 

[Dan G]

Is a 197 going to be able to keep up with a 230? I wouldn't have thought it had the acceleration. Or will the units have 90 minutes rather than 60 to make the journey?

If the latter, it will be possible for the 230s to be driven far more gently, possibly/probably resolving the overheating issues.

 

[Steve B]

The present service is not exactly a "clockface" service now - there is a degree of variation in the timetable, and even more so in practice. As has already been said (whilst I'm typing this) I'd also prefer a reliable and realistic timetable as opposed to something that is more akin to wishful thinking. A truly "clockface" timetable isn't going to happen until something is done about line speed and line capacity.

And it's not as though the Borderlands service has to tie in with a rigorous "clockface" service on the mainline at Wrexham. My use of the line requires changing trains at Wrexham, and I almost always have time for breakfast in one direction and afternoon tea in the other whilst waiting.

 

[3RDGEN]

Is a 197 going to be able to keep up with a 230? I wouldn't have thought it had the acceleration.

The end to end journey times have been extended by 4 or 5 minutes from the December timetable, one of the "benefits" allowed by the three unit 45 minute interval service.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Isn't it going to hopefully eliminate the horribly optimistic turnarounds though?

I'd rather have an irregular service frequency that is vaguely reliable than an unreliable, supposedly clock-face frequency.

For all I'm pro Takt, messy timetables are less of an issue than they used to be when you've got frequent connections at the primary change points anyway (i.e. 4tph on Merseyrail) and it's easy to look it up on your phone.

Preston to Ormskirk was another one where it wasn't a major issue as most connections were onto Merseyrail. Indeed when Northern were trying to run a circuit including Blackpool and Colne with one unit too few most people wanted the old reliable self-contained 1h10ish frequency back.

 

[CaergwrleKen]

The end to end journey times have been extended by 4 or 5 minutes from the December timetable, one of the "benefits" allowed by the three unit 45 minute interval service.

If they can use 3 trains then it would
be much better to have a very reliable hourly timetable with say a journey time 1 hour and 10 mins and waiting time in Central or Bidston sidings and maybe add an extra peak hour train but Cardiff managers have decided the timetable so i will look forward it and no more 150s.

 

[Peter Sarf]

With a really random, unhelpful (I can't think of the right word, what's the opposite of clockface?) service frequency...

0721, 0806, 0851, 0936, 1021, 1106, 1151, 1236, 1321, 1406, 1451, 1534, 1621, 1706, 1751, 1847, 1932, 2046, 2257 from Bidston, for example.

Its actually almost perfect clock face. Every 45 minutes from 07:21 (does make for unmemorable base times though). It only drifts off 45 minutes frequency at 15:34 (vice 15:36), 18:47(vice 18:36), 19:31(missing 18:36),20:46, 22:57. Evidently the frequency dropping off for those last three services.

 

[OutdoorM]

Its actually almost perfect clock face. Every 45 minutes from 07:21 (does make for unmemorable base times though). It only drifts off 45 minutes frequency at 15:34 (vice 15:36), 18:47(vice 18:36), 19:31(missing 18:36),20:46, 22:57. Evidently the frequency dropping off for those last three services.

Sadly, still not frequent enough for most commuters returning from Liverpool to not trust missing one and being stuck at Bidston, especially around the home rus hour times when the service actually gets worse - it needs the 30 min service even if just to Heswall / Neston. A pity that until the issue with the quarry is resolved they couldnt operate a split service (hourly train running full route and on the other 30 min just running Bidson - Neston)

That would hopefully give the required frequency to rebuild passenger numbers. Could the 230's cope? Could they trial a 777 (once a bit more reliable) on the short shuttle to Neston?

 

[Lurcheroo]

Is a 197 going to be able to keep up with a 230?

I’m not totally sure but 197’s can be put into ‘super power mode’ which holds them in a lower gear for longer so gives better acceleration. This is usually only allowed with permission from control but perhaps they’ll allow it in this route to try help the 197 keep time ?

 

[Brissle Girl]

Just to say that in 2008 the Severn Beach line went from every hour to every 40 mins and that resulted in a big increase in passenger numbers, despite the apparent loss of a clockface service.

 

[L401CJF]

I’m not totally sure but 197’s can be put into ‘super power mode’ which holds them in a lower gear for longer so gives better acceleration. This is usually only allowed with permission from control but perhaps they’ll allow it in this route to try help the 197 keep time ?

I was told by a driver a while ago they are free to choose whatever power mode they fancy on the 197 without requesting permission, unless this has changed.

Sadly, still not frequent enough for most commuters returning from Liverpool to not trust missing one and being stuck at Bidston, especially around the home rus hour times when the service actually gets worse - it needs the 30 min service even if just to Heswall / Neston. A pity that until the issue with the quarry is resolved they couldnt operate a split service (hourly train running full route and on the other 30 min just running Bidson - Neston)

That would hopefully give the required frequency to rebuild passenger numbers. Could the 230's cope? Could they trial a 777 (once a bit more reliable) on the short shuttle to Neston?

Neston shorts seem very unlikely- from experience working trains on the line Shotton to Wrexham is the busiest section for a start. If a train was to terminate at Neston I believe it would have to run to Dee Marsh to turn back round (if that's still possible - I'm not sure)

 

[paddyb6]

Neston shorts seem very unlikely- from experience working trains on the line Shotton to Wrexham is the busiest section for a start. If a train was to terminate at Neston I believe it would have to run to Dee Marsh to turn back round (if that's still possible - I'm not sure)

Correct - there isn't the infrastructure to do this, really, if 777s were to venture down the Borderlands it would almost certainly have to be Wrexham.