Transport for Wales - lowest satisfaction rating

[sikejsudjek]

HoW had more cancellations due to lack of train crew this week. This year has been abysmal on the HoW line with several stations in the bottom 100 for the UK with regard to service cancellations and delays.

 

[Western 52]

HoW had more cancellations due to lack of train crew this week. This year has been abysmal on the HoW line with several stations in the bottom 100 for the UK with regard to service cancellations and delays.

It's been especially bad with the last trains often cancelled south of Llanwrtyd.

 

[Caaardiff]

Not sure which topic to post in - this is what they are saying to the public today in defence of the current poor service. Claiming they have 151 trains today compared to 128 they started with when they took over.
BUT I get the feeling they aren’t being very honest, how many of the 151 they have today are actually in service??
There are a lot parked up at the moment and will be for some time. Is this another pulling the wool over the public’s eyes again?
Like they did claiming the 175 fleet was coming back into service and all will be better when in fact they were going off lease and some never seen a passenger on them again!!!
I’m completely behind TFW plans and aspirations to improve things but I’m against fudging the facts and not being completely honest with people.
Screenshot attached

Interesting. The fleet target most days is 110 and even then the reality falls short of that.
Anyone know where the other 41 trains are hiding?

 

[Krokodil]

Interesting. The fleet target most days is 110 and even then the reality falls short of that.
Anyone know where the other 41 trains are hiding?

Most of the 41 will be the ones undergoing routine maintenance. There were around 9 197s laid up with knackered wheels. Then there's the 230s (less said the better)

 

[sd0733]

I can get it to 150 units (36x150, 26x153, 24x158, 1x170, 40x197, 5x230, 11x231, 7xMk4) but struggling with the last one unless another 197 has been accepted.

Of these there are 17 stopped for at least the last 2 weeks. 150217/229/242/254/260/279
153909
158834
197001/007/009/012/014/048
230006/230010
HD03
These are waiting parts/collision damage/wheel damage etc mostly out of the ordinary pattern.

The majority of the others would be on routine maintenance. The original ATW fleet would have had units stopped too as will all fleets so it doesn't seem untruthful to say that the full figure is the amount in the fleet.

As @Caaardiff said there are 110 diagrams currently on a weekday so that leaves 23 units on routine maintenance/exams/short term stopped before availability becomes a problem.

 

[GalaxyDog]

Recollections of a service Cardiff-Carmarthen last week where we were 40 late off Cardiff. The return was a Carmarthen-Manchester on a 2 car 197 and was rammed. Why have so many 197s suddenly developed wheel issues requiring the wheel turners?

 

[Travelmonkey]

Have to say despite a 27 min delay on a return journey I still found tfw staff most reliable to my passenger assist bookings and willing to help me especially Themeslink decided to cancel my assistance last moment after I was already put on a train, station staff are generally the best of the TOCs I've used, although Wales not to dissimilar to England where the capital gets the lionshare or should I say drangonshare of the funding, the south I do need to investigate more but given that most stations have changing places toilets on the South Wales mainline that's something I wish more TOCs would implement to big towns & interchanges,

 

[Smwrff]

To be fair to TfW they inherited a dire fleet from Arriva and have had problems with replacements. They now have a shiny new fleet building up but we wont fully start to see improvements for another year...

 

[gazthomas]

Recollections of a service Cardiff-Carmarthen last week where we were 40 late off Cardiff. The return was a Carmarthen-Manchester on a 2 car 197 and was rammed. Why have so many 197s suddenly developed wheel issues requiring the wheel turners?

I heard that the wheel flat issue was self inflicted, due to incorrect training on the use of sanders (and auto sanders)

 

[Lurcheroo]

I heard that the wheel flat issue was self inflicted, due to incorrect training on the use of sanders (and auto sanders)

On 197’s, during any amount of break application, Sand is automatically applied as required by detection of the wheelslip protection (WSP) system.
Drivers can brake more cautiously during slippy season but once wheel slide is initiated the instruction is not to stop braking but if you believe you won’t stop where needed then put it into emergency. The WSP is better at dealing with a slide than any human.

There has been some discussion about the cause as they don’t look like regular wheel flats. TFW were running a serious amount of 2 and 3 cars due to lack of units and 2 cars were much more heavily effected so some speculation around shorter sets with less wheels being a bigger problem.

 

[DelW]

To be fair to TfW they inherited a dire fleet from Arriva and have had problems with replacements. They now have a shiny new fleet building up but we wont fully start to see improvements for another year...

The trouble is that TfW have been saying "it'll be better next year" since about 2019 and they lose all credibility when it keeps not happening.

There are always reasons (Covid, problems with mk4s and their locos, problems with the 230s, putting 175s off-lease before their replacements were ready, too-slow introduction of the new fleets) but passengers just hear excuses and give up. When they're asked to accept hours standing on a crush loaded 150 on Marches services, it's not surprising that the satisfaction ratings are so poor.

 

[Krokodil]

I heard that the wheel flat issue was self inflicted, due to incorrect training on the use of sanders (and auto sanders)

Sounds like wibble.

From far more reliable sources (i.e. the people who actually maintain the things) it may be an issue with the specification.

 

[sd0733]

I heard that the wheel flat issue was self inflicted, due to incorrect training on the use of sanders (and auto sanders)

The driver trainers and Ops Standards people who did the original courses worked with CAF so that wouldn't be the case.

 

[33017]

On 197’s, during any amount of break application, Sand is automatically applied as required by detection of the wheelslip protection (WSP) system.
Drivers can brake more cautiously during slippy season but once wheel slide is initiated the instruction is not to stop braking but if you believe you won’t stop where needed then put it into emergency. The WSP is better at dealing with a slide than any human.

There has been some discussion about the cause as they don’t look like regular wheel flats. TFW were running a serious amount of 2 and 3 cars due to lack of units and 2 cars were much more heavily effected so some speculation around shorter sets with less wheels being a bigger problem.

Are you sure it applies sand automatically? My understanding is the sanding button will illuminate with WSP activity but the driver still has to press the button for sand to be dropped when slipping.

 

[Plodster]

Sanding is automatic during an emergency brake application and during braking where WSP activity is detected.

Manual sanding is available in traction only as required by the driver.

 

[RJ]

Putting a different view on things, I like what TfW are striving to achieve. The interior refurbishmemts are decent with plug sockets as standard and new trains are coming in. The frequency enhancements will be welcomed

 

[Joe Paxton]

The trouble is that TfW have been saying "it'll be better next year" since about 2019 and they lose all credibility when it keeps not happening.

There are always reasons (Covid, problems with mk4s and their locos, problems with the 230s, putting 175s off-lease before their replacements were ready, too-slow introduction of the new fleets) but passengers just hear excuses and give up. When they're asked to accept hours standing on a crush loaded 150 on Marches services, it's not surprising that the satisfaction ratings are so poor.

Reading that, the thought comes to mind that similar could be said about many other public services - that said, when it comes to several other public services many of those involved in delivering them wouldn't currently dream of saying "it'll be better next year", rather they are just in the business of trying to ensure the whole edifice doesn't completely collapse.

I appreciate that's arguably not quite on-topic for this thread, but I do think that's a broad underlying theme that's worth bearing in mind when it comes to such discussions.

 

[Oxfordblues]

I well remember travelling on the Marches Line in the 1980s. There were just six trains per day (one of which was the 00:02 Cardiff-Crewe) mostly Cl.33-hauled rakes of 5-or-6 Mk1s, none of which ventured beyond Crewe. You could always get a seat!

 

[Western 52]

I well remember travelling on the Marches Line in the 1980s. There were just six trains per day (one of which was the 00:02 Cardiff-Crewe) mostly Cl.33-hauled rakes of 5-or-6 Mk1s, none of which ventured beyond Crewe. You could always get a seat!

Those were the days! Before the 33s we had the 25s, and before them it was class 120 and 123 DMUs.

 

[Facing Back]

Sounds like wibble.

From far more reliable sources (i.e. the people who actually maintain the things) it may be an issue with the specification.

I'd like to joke and ask if they didn't specify round wheels but I know that's not what you meant. What kind of specification issue could cause this kind of problem?

 

[Krokodil]

I'd like to joke and ask if they didn't specify round wheels but I know that's not what you meant. What kind of specification issue could cause this kind of problem?

The type of steel used.

 

[Facing Back]

The type of steel used.

Ah... A TOC (or TfW?) seriously specifies the type of steel used rather than the performance parameters of the wheels? That's interesting.

 

[Krokodil]

Ah... A TOC (or TfW?) seriously specifies the type of steel used rather than the performance parameters of the wheels? That's interesting.

It might even have been with the encouragement of Network Rail, something to do with it being less punishing upon the track (on which subject the poor ride quality of many modern units can partly be blamed upon a desire to keep axle weights down)

 

[Bikeman78]

The 150s don't seem to have suffered as a result of flying up and down the Marches. The miles per failure has gone up. It makes sense. Fewer door cycles and reversals. The 158s also improved but the 175s were, as expected, worse than than previous year.

 

[TPO]

Ah... A TOC (or TfW?) seriously specifies the type of steel used rather than the performance parameters of the wheels? That's interesting.

I am rather surprised given that GMRT2466 (Railway Group Standard for wheelsets, mandatory for main line rail) references the British Standard on railway wheelsets which has core specs for the steel used for wheel pans........ unless the steel in the pans was put of spec, but that would also be surprising.

What can cause a problem is an over-optimized wheel profile, I seem to recall it was Wessex trains discovered that the "best" profile for contact patch and minimal wear could lead to rolling contact fatigue on the wheel tread, eventually this leads to the tread spalling. (Birmingham University used to have some of the wheelsets thus affected for teaching their railways engineering course, but that was over 10 years ago).

Whereas a different profile wears a bit so the fatigue cracks wear off before propagating.

(Note, I have no idea whether this is the issue at TfW, but history indicates that a change in profile-which could be a TOC decision- can be significant.)

TPO