Travel outside Oyster zones

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PaulJ

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I’m interested to know what the correct procedure should be in this scenario. Let’s say a passenger taps in at London Victoria either using an Oyster card or bank card and they are bound for Maidstone. Clearly after Swanley, there are no Oyster validators and therefore tapping out at Maidstone is impossible. Additionally an on train announcement is made prior to Swanley regarding the end of the Oyster zone. If approached by an onboard conductor after Swanley, should the passenger be sold a ticket from Victoria to Maidstone, or from Swanley to Maidstone? And what is the impact to the passenger cost wise from the initial card tap in?
 
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roversfan2001

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They’ll be charged a maximum fare Oyster/contactless wise and treat like any other ticketless passenger if they’re caught by the conductor after Swanley.
 

ivorytoast28

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Do these services not say you have to buy a ticket before you board, so if approached after Swanley you'd be travelling without a ticket and issued a penalty fare etc.?
Essentially, you could buy a ticket from Swanley to Maidstone and then claim a refund from TFL for the missed tap out. I think they allow 2 per year per card but you should have the ticket from Swanley to Maidstone by the time the train leaves swanley
 

MikeWh

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I’m interested to know what the correct procedure should be in this scenario. Let’s say a passenger taps in at London Victoria either using an Oyster card or bank card and they are bound for Maidstone. Clearly after Swanley, there are no Oyster validators and therefore tapping out at Maidstone is impossible. Additionally an on train announcement is made prior to Swanley regarding the end of the Oyster zone. If approached by an onboard conductor after Swanley, should the passenger be sold a ticket from Victoria to Maidstone, or from Swanley to Maidstone? And what is the impact to the passenger cost wise from the initial card tap in?
I would imagine a penalty fare will be issued as you have not complied with the conditions of use of Oyster on National Rail services. The Oyster card will still have a maximum fare applied to it.

Bear in mind that the on-train announcement clearly states that if using Oyster you must leave the train and touch out.
 

Haywain

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But a penalty fare is an option, not a right, and travelling without a ticket has the potential to leave the traveller open to prosecution.
 

Watershed

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I’m interested to know what the correct procedure should be in this scenario. Let’s say a passenger taps in at London Victoria either using an Oyster card or bank card and they are bound for Maidstone. Clearly after Swanley, there are no Oyster validators and therefore tapping out at Maidstone is impossible. Additionally an on train announcement is made prior to Swanley regarding the end of the Oyster zone. If approached by an onboard conductor after Swanley, should the passenger be sold a ticket from Victoria to Maidstone, or from Swanley to Maidstone? And what is the impact to the passenger cost wise from the initial card tap in?
The only time where you would validly be allowed to tap in but not out, or vice versa, is if you have a Travelcard loaded to your Oyster. But then you would also need to buy an extension ticket before boarding, alternatively if there's a conductor you could approach them to buy a ticket, provided you do so before departing Swanley.

If you don't do the above, you are liable to be treated as per any other passenger who is ticketless, if checked beyond Swanley. And you wouldn't receive any 'discount' for having tapped in originally.
 

PaulJ

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The only time where you would validly be allowed to tap in but not out, or vice versa, is if you have a Travelcard loaded to your Oyster. But then you would also need to buy an extension ticket before boarding, alternatively if there's a conductor you could approach them to buy a ticket, provided you do so before departing Swanley.

If you don't do the above, you are liable to be treated as per any other passenger who is ticketless, if checked beyond Swanley. And you wouldn't receive any 'discount' for having tapped in originally.
I’m presuming exactly the same would apply to someone that tapped in with a bank debit card in the very naive belief that that is all they need to do? Naturally ignorance of the law is no defence!
 

6Gman

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I’m interested to know what the correct procedure should be in this scenario. Let’s say a passenger taps in at London Victoria either using an Oyster card or bank card and they are bound for Maidstone. Clearly after Swanley, there are no Oyster validators and therefore tapping out at Maidstone is impossible. Additionally an on train announcement is made prior to Swanley regarding the end of the Oyster zone. If approached by an onboard conductor after Swanley, should the passenger be sold a ticket from Victoria to Maidstone, or from Swanley to Maidstone? And what is the impact to the passenger cost wise from the initial card tap in?
Surely if you're travelling from Victoria to Maidstone you just buy a ticket from Victoria to Maidstone?
 
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Cdd89

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A variant of this question is holding a validated PAYG Oyster card, and a separate ticket from the boundary of Oyster validity to the final destination, and not touching out — in so doing, willingly incurring the maximum fare. This would be very convenient on a number of flows so is not a hypothetical question.

At no point is the passenger without a valid ticket for that sector/instant in their journey but there has still been a breach of the terms.
 

island

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I would imagine a penalty fare will be issued as you have not complied with the conditions of use of Oyster on National Rail services. The Oyster card will still have a maximum fare applied to it.

Bear in mind that the on-train announcement clearly states that if using Oyster you must leave the train and touch out.
Southeastern conductors on this route are not, to my knowledge, Authorised Collectors and could not issue a Penalty Fare.

I expect the conductor would sell a full price ticket from London Terminals to Maidstone Stations and advise the passenger to seek a refund for the maximum fare from TfL.
 

JonathanH

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A variant of this question is holding a validated PAYG Oyster card, and a separate ticket from the boundary of Oyster validity to the final destination, and not touching out — in so doing, willingly incurring the maximum fare. This would be very convenient on a number of flows so is not a hypothetical question.

At no point is the passenger without a valid ticket for that sector/instant in their journey but there has still been a breach of the terms.
There comes a point at which that triggers investigation from TfL as breaching the requirement to touch out the Oyster card. Clearly a revenue protection official will not find an invalid ticket on the train, although I guess that the record of any inspections on board would be taken into account in the investigation.
 

MikeWh

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Posts relating to nationwide PAYG have been moved to a new thread.

Please ensure that this thread stays close to the question in the OP.
 
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