Travelcard on Southeastern Metro

[ChristopherJ]

Yesterday I bought myself a 1-6 Travelcard (at £8.50, what a rip off, I remember when it was just over a fiver!) to go and finish off some piddly little lines that have eluded me in Greater London.

I still needed the Bexleyheath and Dartford Loop lines in South London, I got on a Cannon Street - Barnehurst train (Bexleyheath Line), then changed to a Crayford train to go back to London via the Dartford Loop line and voilà - I'd have finished all lines in this part of London.

On the SE map it shows Barnehurst in Zone 6, yet if you return to London via the Dartford Loop you leave the Travelcard zone area before immediately reentering it at the next station that is Crayford. This got me wondering if my Travelcard would of been valid for this section. I depart a station (Barnehurst) in the Travelcard zone, leave it for the intermediate journey but instantly return back in to the Travelcard zone at the next station (Crayford).

I was curious it may not been valid and would of argued it out with an RPI if I got gripped but fortunately this being a peak hour train and everyone going the other way (out of London) I had a whole 465 to just the driver and myself.

Aren't the Bexleyheath and Dartford Lines are dull as hell? Built in an embankment cutting for the whole way with no scenery or structures to admire. More than glad I left those lines for quite literally a rainy day. I was curling my toes to get back to civilization. All done now - no need to go back. :roll:

EDIT

Now according to TfHell's rail map - it is defiantly valid.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/london-rail-and-tube-services-map.pdf

 

[LexyBoy]

Yesterday I bought myself a 1-6 Travelcard (at £8.50, what a rip off, I remember when it was just over a fiver!)

Seems like pretty good value to me. An Off Peak Day Return between Reading and Oxford is £8.30, a smaller distance than that between the east and west boundaries of Z6. And that only gives you one return journey. For a one day bus pass in Reading it's £4 to cover a town a fraction of the size of London, with less frequent services (and this only covers one bus company - no use of the train, First or Thames Travel buses).

Now according to TfHell's rail map - it is defiantly valid.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/london-rail-and-tube-services-map.pdf

I'm not sure how defiant a route can be, but it is definitely valid

 

[island]

I think a Travelcard is valid on the loop services, but obviously not via Dartford.

 

[MikeWh]

Yesterday I bought myself a 1-6 Travelcard (at £8.50, what a rip off, I remember when it was just over a fiver!) to go and finish off some piddly little lines that have eluded me in Greater London.

£8.50 is exceptional value for what it gives access to. I remember when a bus ride in Greater London only cost 10p, but inflation is here to stay as I'm sure you'll soon learn. When you're my age you'll think £8.50 was peanuts. If you take a look at my location you'll probably guess what is coming next. Piddly my a***!

Aren't the Bexleyheath and Dartford Lines are dull as hell? Built in an embankment cutting for the whole way with no scenery or structures to admire. More than glad I left those lines for quite literally a rainy day. I was curling my toes to get back to civilization. All done now - no need to go back. :roll:

Well you can't have been looking that carefully then. Alongside the railway at several locations are the original power supply buildings, huge brick structures no less. You might have noticed the one next to Barnehurst while you waited for your train to Crayford. Between Eltham and Kidbrooke the line circles around Eltham Palace gardens. I know the A2 trunk road is now between the line and the gardens but you can still see them. Between Falconwood and Welling the line is on an embankment and as you cross the Roman Road Watling Street you have a good view of Shooters Hill with the water tower on top. Between Crayford and Bexley the line passes Hall Place gardens, but you were probably looking out the other side which I agree isn't that inspiring. Between Mottingham and Lee the line is on a long embankment with good views both sides, including the impressive Dutch House pub. Oh, and that pointless tunnel between Blackheath and Kidbrooke - you can thank the original landowner for that. He insisted on having a tunnel to prevent the railway disturbing him.

I wonder what delights adorn your local line? Anyway, for a first post you've certainly performed a masterclass in how to upset a chunk of your audience.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[LexyBoy]

Oh, also Southeastern's network map is a load of rubbish anyway; as well as showing these loops as outside the Travelcard zones, it shows St Pancras and Stratford International as within them. One would think that Southeastern out of anyone would get that right...

 

[Bungle73]

Oh, also Southeastern's network map is a load of rubbish anyway; as well as showing these loops as outside the Travelcard zones, it shows St Pancras and Stratford International as within them. One would think that Southeastern out of anyone would get that right...

How else are they going to show them without making the map unnecessary complicated?

Those stations may be outside the Zones for SE HS services, but they aren't for other operators.

 

[LexyBoy]

How else are they going to show them without making the map unnecessary complicated?

Those stations may be outside the Zones for SE HS services, but they aren't for other operators.

Very easily, by making the HS1 line into London a little higher on their map. Stratford International (NR) doesn't have any other operators except E* who also don't accept Travelcards, and St Pancreas (HS1) is in a magical region of London which although it appears to be within the main station is in fact outside of London.

That said, I've just checked the TfL map and was surprised to see that HS1 is included, without any mention that Travelcards are not valid!

 

[Bungle73]

Very easily, by making the HS1 line into London a little higher on their map. Stratford International (NR) doesn't have any other operators except E* who also don't accept Travelcards, and St Pancreas (HS1) is in a magical region of London which although it appears to be within the main station is in fact outside of London.

That said, I've just checked the TfL map and was surprised to see that HS1 is included, without any mention that Travelcards are not valid!

SI has DLR services and St. Pancras has FCC services both of which Travelcards are valid on.

Eurostar don't serve SI.

 

[RJ]

Yesterday I bought myself a 1-6 Travelcard (at £8.50, what a rip off, I remember when it was just over a fiver!) to go and finish off some piddly little lines that have eluded me in Greater London.

I still needed the Bexleyheath and Dartford Loop lines in South London, I got on a Cannon Street - Barnehurst train (Bexleyheath Line), then changed to a Crayford train to go back to London via the Dartford Loop line and voilà - I'd have finished all lines in this part of London.

On the SE map it shows Barnehurst in Zone 6, yet if you return to London via the Dartford Loop you leave the Travelcard zone area before immediately reentering it at the next station that is Crayford. This got me wondering if my Travelcard would of been valid for this section. I depart a station (Barnehurst) in the Travelcard zone, leave it for the intermediate journey but instantly return back in to the Travelcard zone at the next station (Crayford).

I was curious it may not been valid and would of argued it out with an RPI if I got gripped but fortunately this being a peak hour train and everyone going the other way (out of London) I had a whole 465 to just the driver and myself.

Aren't the Bexleyheath and Dartford Lines are dull as hell? Built in an embankment cutting for the whole way with no scenery or structures to admire. More than glad I left those lines for quite literally a rainy day. I was curling my toes to get back to civilization. All done now - no need to go back. :roll:

EDIT

Now according to TfHell's rail map - it is defiantly valid.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/london-rail-and-tube-services-map.pdf

You've done a lot of writing there. I can whittle it down.

"I've knowingly spotted a mistake on Southeastern's website and thought it'd be better to share it on here than contact them directly so they can amend it."

Seems like a very straightforward error that's easily remedied to me.

 

[jopsuk]

That said, I've just checked the TfL map and was surprised to see that HS1 is included, without any mention that Travelcards are not valid!

This is a good point- it mentions Oyster Pay As You Go validity, and attempts to show Heathrow Express/Connect as being outside the zones, but makes no mention of travelcards! Wouldn't rely on that as a defence though- and, after all, if the barriers are on you'll not be able to get through.

 

[bronzeonion]

Yesterday I bought myself a 1-6 Travelcard (at £8.50, what a rip off, I remember when it was just over a fiver!) to go and finish off some piddly little lines that have eluded me in Greater London.

I still needed the Bexleyheath and Dartford Loop lines in South London, I got on a Cannon Street - Barnehurst train (Bexleyheath Line), then changed to a Crayford train to go back to London via the Dartford Loop line and voilà - I'd have finished all lines in this part of London.

On the SE map it shows Barnehurst in Zone 6, yet if you return to London via the Dartford Loop you leave the Travelcard zone area before immediately reentering it at the next station that is Crayford. This got me wondering if my Travelcard would of been valid for this section. I depart a station (Barnehurst) in the Travelcard zone, leave it for the intermediate journey but instantly return back in to the Travelcard zone at the next station (Crayford).

I was curious it may not been valid and would of argued it out with an RPI if I got gripped but fortunately this being a peak hour train and everyone going the other way (out of London) I had a whole 465 to just the driver and myself.

Aren't the Bexleyheath and Dartford Lines are dull as hell? Built in an embankment cutting for the whole way with no scenery or structures to admire. More than glad I left those lines for quite literally a rainy day. I was curling my toes to get back to civilization. All done now - no need to go back. :roll:

EDIT

Now according to TfHell's rail map - it is defiantly valid.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/london-rail-and-tube-services-map.pdf

The large 'London and the South East' map that used to be called 'London Connections' shows the whole lot to be inside Zone 6.

 

[RJ]

This is a good point- it mentions Oyster Pay As You Go validity, and attempts to show Heathrow Express/Connect as being outside the zones, but makes no mention of travelcards! Wouldn't rely on that as a defence though- and, after all, if the barriers are on you'll not be able to get through.

That is true, but Heathrow has the fortune of being on the edge of Zone 6, so the BAA lines can be shown to be outside of the Zones. However, St Pancras and Stratford already have plenty going on within the map so it wouldn't be possible for an additional zonal exemption to be shown tidily.

 

[maniacmartin]

That is true, but Heathrow has the fortune of being on the edge of Zone 6, so the BAA lines can be shown to be outside of the Zones. However, St Pancras and Stratford already have plenty going on within the map so it wouldn't be possible for an additional zonal exemption to be shown tidily.

Indeed. Look at the way in which TfL had to add the Tramlink zone around Croydon, it's an example of how overlapping zones can be hard to draw clearly.

 

[Barn]

I didn't actually know that there were direct trains between Barnehurst and Crayford. I knew they both had connections to Slade Green but not to each other. Is it a peak only thing?

 

[island]

Yes, but there's only two or three each way per day.