Travelled without valid railcard

[smij]

Hi all. Yesterday I travelled from Halewood to Manchester Piccadilly (via Warrington). I booked the ticket via the Trainline app on the walk to the station, unfortunately not realising that I had the 26-30 railcard ticked. This expired back in March, and I had actively decided not to renew it as I've been doing far fewer train journeys since the beginning of the year. Ticket was checked on the train by a conductor with no problems, and I didn't realise my mistake until I got to the barriers at Piccadilly and was asked to show my railcard.

After understanding what I'd done I immediately offered to pay for the correct ticket, but was taken over to another member of staff to take my details. He took photos of the digital ticket and expired railcard (though I explained I hadn't intended to purchase with a railcard as I knew it was expired), issued me with a travel incident report and told me to expect a letter requesting explanation in 2-3 weeks. I later purchased a new, correct ticket for the return journey to ensure it was valid.

I'm completely stressed out about this, particularly the prospect of prosecution, and looking for advice. I have some idea of what to expect from panicked scrolling through these forums all day, but would rather get some specific advice than piece things together from old threads. I can honestly say this was a mistake, and I had no intention of travelling on an invalid ticket. As far as I can tell from checking the few recent journeys I've done there have been no other instances of incorrectly applying the railcard discount. In hindsight I think the setting must have been left on from recently working out whether renewing the railcard for some upcoming journeys made financial sense. Ironically, doing so would have avoided a more expensive mistake..

Couple of questions along with any general advice. First, would you recommend renewing the railcard now as a sign of taking steps to avoid this happening again? Secondly, how long should I realistically expect it to take for this letter to be sent from Northern? I was told 2-3 weeks, but am seeing people on here waiting months for theirs. I'll be out of the UK for over a month October/November time (with my partner joining me for ~2 weeks so no-one in the house), and am very worried about it taking longer and arriving then.

Any help would be appreciated, thanks in advance.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

I assume from what you've told us you're dealing with Northern Trains. What happens next is that Northern will write a rather threatening letter to you in the next few weeks saying that they hae received a report and are considering prosecuting. Your reply to this letter is your opportunity to give your version of events and and mitigating factors you want Northen to take into consideration when they decide how to proceed.

I suggest writing a short, concise reply mentioning the following:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Northern are normally pepared to offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with them and who haven't come to their attention before. We can't guarantee this, they could prosecute in the Magistrates Court if they wanted to, but this would be unusual if you co-operate.

Be aware that Northern will likely research your online ticket purchasing history and if this shows that you've purchased railcard discounted tickets since your railcard expired they will probably want to ask you about these and reflect the cost of the fares when calculating an out of court settlement.

If you are offered a settlement expect to have to pay the cost of the fare at full Anytime rate, with no credit given for the ticket you did purchase. In addition you will have to pay and admin fee, typically around £150. Paying an out of court settlement might feel like paying a fine but technically it isn't - only a court can impose a fine as a punishment upon conviction. You won't have a criminal record as a result of paying a settlement. If you are offered a settlement you will need to be in a position to pay it in full within a few days of it being offered, payment in installments isn't normally allowed.

Feel free to post a copy of Northern's letter along with your draft reply in this thread (but do redact any personal details and case reference numbers) and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[smij]

Thanks Hadders, I'll be sure to upload here as soon as I receive something. Hopefully that doesn't take too long, as I'm not dealing with the stress well...

I've also now renewed my railcard so hopefully that will help my case, along with avoiding this mistake again!

 

[smij]

Hi all. The letter from Northern finally arrived a couple of days ago (about a week after it's dated, thanks Royal Mail...). Luckily they offer the option to respond via email instead, so I shouldn't have an issue in responding in time.

A photo of the letter I received from them is attached. I've also drafted up a reply, so if anyone has any input or advice on that before I send it off it would be most appreciated! It may need slimming down a little, in particular I've included two sections in square brackets that can probably go. I just felt it might be useful to explain how the mistake is likely to have happened.

Dear Revenue Enforcement Delivery Manager,

Thank you for your letter (REFERENCE NO.) dated 5th September 2024.

On 10th August 2024 I travelled from Halewood to Manchester Piccadilly, purchasing a ticket for the journey via the Trainline app whilst walking to the station. Unfortunately, I failed to notice that the 26-30 railcard option was selected for the ticket I bought. My previous railcard expired in March, and I had decided not to renew it as I had been making fewer train journeys. I only became aware of this mistake when I reached the ticket gates at Manchester and was asked to show my railcard. I explained I didn’t have one, and immediately offered to rectify the issue, but was taken to another member of staff to have my details taken. [I believe the railcard option had remained ticked after previously checking train prices for some upcoming journeys and deciding whether to renew the card.]

While I hope you can see this was completely unintentional, I understand that it is my own responsibility to ensure that I am travelling with a valid ticket, and I apologise for not doing so in this instance. Please rest assured that I will take much greater care in the future to ensure the ticket I’m purchasing is correct. After the incident I also bought a new railcard (NEW RAILCARD NO.) to guarantee this doesn’t happen again. I have also checked my ticketing history since my railcard expired, and am confident this is the only instance of this mistake.

I would greatly appreciate it if you would allow me the opportunity to settle this matter without court action. I am of course happy to compensate you for the full ticket I should have purchased, along with any administration costs you may have incurred in dealing with this matter. [I am particularly keen to avoid court action as a criminal record could cause problems in obtaining foreign visas, which is occasionally necessary for my work.]

Thank you for taking the time to read this, and I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours sincerely,

NAME
DETAILS

 

[30907]

I would certainly take the bracketed bits out and perhaps try to shorten the first long paragraph. Otherwise OK.

 

[John R]

I agree the first paragraph could be shortened slightly. They know the date and what journey you were making, and that it was bought using Trainline. Also, I 'm not sure I would say you made a conscious decision not to renew.

 

[smij]

Thanks both, I'll try to cut the first paragraph down.

I agree the first paragraph could be shortened slightly. They know the date and what journey you were making, and that it was bought using Trainline. Also, I 'm not sure I would say you made a conscious decision not to renew.

I was trying to make the point that I hadn't intended to purchase the ticket with a railcard as I knew it had expired, rather than it sounding like I somehow hadn't noticed it had expired months earlier, but maybe that doesn't come across.

I've taken out the mentioned sections and cut down the first paragraph. If there are any other thoughts that would be great, otherwise I plan to send this tomorrow. Thanks again.

Dear Revenue Enforcement Delivery Manager,

Thank you for your letter (REF) dated 5th September 2024.

On 10th August 2024 I travelled from Halewood to Manchester Piccadilly, purchasing a ticket for the journey via the Trainline app whilst walking to the station. Unfortunately, I failed to notice that the 26-30 railcard option was selected, despite my previous railcard expiring in March. I only became aware of this mistake when I reached the ticket gates at Manchester and was asked to show my railcard. I explained I didn’t have one, and immediately offered to rectify the issue, but was taken to another member of staff to have my details taken.

While I hope you can see this was completely unintentional, I understand that it is my own responsibility to ensure that I am travelling with a valid ticket, and I sincerely apologise for not doing so in this instance. Please rest assured that I will take much greater care in the future to ensure the ticket I’m purchasing is correct. After the incident I also bought a new railcard (RAILCARD NO) to guarantee this doesn’t happen again. I have also checked my ticketing history since my railcard expired and I am confident this is the only instance of this mistake.

I would greatly appreciate it if you would allow me the opportunity to settle this matter without court action. I am of course happy to compensate you for the full ticket I should have purchased, along with any administration costs you may have incurred in dealing with this matter.

Thank you for taking the time to read this, and I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours sincerely,

 

[antharro]

That's a decent letter right there. Good luck with it. Also, while you can send it by email, I'd suggest sending a copy by tracked/signed for post to make sure it gets there. Nothing to say you can't send it by email as well!

 

[smij]

Hi all. The other day I received an email response from Northern, advising me that they'd sent me a further letter, which arrived yesterday. This was a fixed penalty notice, requesting payment of £114.10 (£100 charge plus the cost of the full single ticket). This has now been paid and they have confirmed that no further action is required.

An expensive mistake, but I'm glad it was resolved relatively painlessly. Thanks to everyone who gave advice, both here and on other threads I read; it definitely helped. In the nicest possible way, I hope I never have to speak to any of you again - at least on here!

 

[John R]

Hi all. The other day I received an email response from Northern, advising me that they'd sent me a further letter, which arrived yesterday. This was a fixed penalty notice, requesting payment of £114.10 (£100 charge plus the cost of the full single ticket). This has now been paid and they have confirmed that no further action is required.

An expensive mistake, but I'm glad it was resolved relatively painlessly. Thanks to everyone who gave advice, both here and on other threads I read; it definitely helped. In the nicest possible way, I hope I never have to speak to any of you again - at least on here!

That's good to hear, and thank you for the feedback. I understand the sentiment of your last comment too - just remember to put a reminder in for any railcard expiry date, check that you haven't mistakenly bought an advance ticket lured in by a cheap price, and don't hop on a train and think you can buy on board if ticket purchasing facilities existed where you boarded - then hopefully you'll never have cause to contact the forum again. Good luck!