Travelling after losing wallet

[davart]

I was wondering, as the other day I left my wallet on the counter in the railway ticket office (fortunately they managed to track me down to tell me!).

If I had lost it, is there a process where you can travel and agree to pay, say, within 24 hours?

Just wondered as I very nearly boarded the train sans wallet and tickets! This is distinct from fare dodging of course. If you are up front about the predicament, can a solution be found? I was en-route to work so deviating from my journey wouldn't really have been practical.

Any advice?

 

[BigCj34]

Probably not. The best you could do to prevent a future occurence is set up your card up with Android or Apple pay so you're not completely stuffed if that happens, and see if your bank allows cash withdrawals with just your phone (Natwest does). If you lost your ticket and had to buy a new one you could write to the relevant TOC with proof of purchase and see if they will refund you.

 

[davart]

Thanks for your reply.

Yeah, I'm aware of the NatWest app facility.

Can't use Android Pay due to no NFC.

Just wondered if there was actually a formal procedure if someone did find themselves in a situation like that.

Obviously, I would have lost ID such as my driving licence so wouldn't have been able to prove who I was.

Was just a thought really. Lucky that the person after me spotted it on the counter and handed it in!

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Thanks for your reply.

Yeah, I'm aware of the NatWest app facility.

Can't use Android Pay due to no NFC.

Just wondered if there was actually a formal procedure if someone did find themselves in a situation like that.

Obviously, I would have lost ID such as my driving licence so wouldn't have been able to prove who I was.

Was just a thought really. Lucky that the person after me spotted it on the counter and handed it in!

The approach and result would vary significantly depending on which part of the UK this happened in, both in terms of the constituent "country" of the UK as well as whether it was rural or urban. The particular TOC involved - and particularly the person inspecting your ticket, if any - would probably have the biggest impact.

The outcome could vary from anything from not being inspected at all, to being inspected but being let off, to having your details taken for the purposes of an Unpaid Fares Notice or similar, to being given a Penalty Fare, to being given a zero fare and having your details taken, to eventually agreeing an out of Court settlement or possibly being prosecuted.

 

[infobleep]

The approach and result would vary significantly depending on which part of the UK this happened in, both in terms of the constituent "country" of the UK as well as whether it was rural or urban. The particular TOC involved - and particularly the person inspecting your ticket, if any - would probably have the biggest impact.

The outcome could vary from anything from not being inspected at all, to being inspected but being let off, to having your details taken for the purposes of an Unpaid Fares Notice or similar, to being given a Penalty Fare, to being given a zero fare and having your details taken, to eventually agreeing an out of Court settlement or possibly being prosecuted.

Reading your reply reminds me of the term 'postcode lottery'.

 

[davart]

So essentially it's tough if you ever are unfortunate to lose your wallet etc whilst travelling by train.

Thought there might be a way of saying 'this is what has happened, here are my details, bill me and I'll settle the amount as soon as possible'.

Notwithstanding, you could find yourself stranded or unable to get to work.

I appreciate proving who you are can be awkward without the contents of your wallet.

Perhaps checking electoral roll and also the address registered to a mobile number?

Shame you can't set up a rail travel account and be billed weekly or monthly.

 

[BlueFox]

I was wondering, as the other day I left my wallet on the counter in the railway ticket office (fortunately they managed to track me down to tell me!).

If I had lost it, is there a process where you can travel and agree to pay, say, within 24 hours?

Just wondered as I very nearly boarded the train sans wallet and tickets! This is distinct from fare dodging of course. If you are up front about the predicament, can a solution be found? I was en-route to work so deviating from my journey wouldn't really have been practical.

Any advice?

Install a mobile ticket app on your phone. No wallet is required to buy or use a mobile ticket.
That's assuming mobile tickets are available for the journey you're making.

 

[ainsworth74]

This is surely where SILK comes into play?

 

[maniacmartin]

This is surely where SILK comes into play?

Does SILK even apply if you've passed an opportunity to purchase a ticket (namely where the wallet was left)?

 

[ainsworth74]

Does SILK even apply if you've passed an opportunity to purchase a ticket (namely where the wallet was left)?

Hmm yes true. I was thinking of if the discovery of the issue was made before actually joining a train!

 

[andrewkeith5]

Isn’t this what SILK is for, so that you can get someone you know to purchase a ticket on your behalf from another station? Or have I misunderstood it?

I’m quite surprised that TOCs wouldn’t be able to facilitate something for people who were stranded and willing to work with the TOC to find a solution. It’s very different to fare evasion!

 

[andrewkeith5]

Hmm yes true. I was thinking of if the discovery of the issue was made before actually joining a train!

Oh, we all posted at the same time! Isn’t SILK only for before joining a train!?

 

[sheff1]

Thought there might be a way of saying 'this is what has happened, here are my details, bill me and I'll settle the amount as soon as possible'.

Yes, that is the Unpaid Fare Notice (UPFN)* mentioned in post #4. However, as explained in that post, whether you would be given an UPFN or not depends very much, in the first instance, on where in the UK the incident happened and which TOC you were using. Even in the same geographical area/on the same TOC, different staff may take different approaches.

* More info on UPFNs is in post #3 here;
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...guide-section-10-disputes.71873/#post-1220744

 

[davart]

Just to clarify, I'd purchased tickets then left them in my wallet on the counter of the ticket kiosk while I was stuffing a fleece into my backpack.

I was wandering about waiting for the train when they contacted me to say I'd left it.

I was able to pick it up and carry as normal but I was oblivious to having left it until I got a call.

 

[davart]

Isn’t this what SILK is for, so that you can get someone you know to purchase a ticket on your behalf from another station? Or have I misunderstood it?

I’m quite surprised that TOCs wouldn’t be able to facilitate something for people who were stranded and willing to work with the TOC to find a solution. It’s very different to fare evasion!

This is essentially what I meant. To 'facilitate a solution'.

Let's consider a Duty of Care perhaps. What if it happens to someone vulnerable. Do the same rules apply? Would they be stranded?

I thought there might be a common sense approach or guidelines on how to resolve such a situation.

Just curiosity on my part!

 

[andrewkeith5]

This is essentially what I meant. To 'facilitate a solution'.

Let's consider a Duty of Care perhaps. What if it happens to someone vulnerable. Do the same rules apply? Would they be stranded?

I thought there might be a common sense approach or guidelines on how to resolve such a situation.

Just curiosity on my part!

I agree it’s a very good question!

 

[Mutant Lemming]

If you were to report the loss to police (as you would initially be unaware if it was a loss or a theft) with an associated crime number would you then be allowed to travel on the understanding of a promise to pay once funds were available ? Surely with the police checking your credentials the TOC should find your claim believable.

 

[sheff1]

If you were to report the loss to police (as you would initially be unaware if it was a loss or a theft) with an associated crime number would you then be allowed to travel on the understanding of a promise to pay once funds were available ? Surely with the police checking your credentials the TOC should find your claim believable.

Again, a good question ! Although in some locations attempting to report a loss to the police whilst on a moving train could be problematic.

 

[andrewkeith5]

Again, a good question ! Although in some locations attempting to report a loss to the police whilst on a moving train could be problematic.

We are talking about before boarding any trains though?

 

[mailbyrail]

I've done something similar at a petrol station 20 odd miles from home, filled up then discovered no means to pay. The garage had my car reg but the starting point wasn't a threat of prosecution, simply drive home and return an hour or so later to pay. Some difference from threats of prosecution which seem to be the starting point in so many cases on the railway - and yes I know there's a lot who deserve the book to be thrown at them.

 

[davart]

I've done something similar at a petrol station 20 odd miles from home, filled up then discovered no means to pay. The garage had my car reg but the starting point wasn't a threat of prosecution, simply drive home and return an hour or so later to pay. Some difference from threats of prosecution which seem to be the starting point in so many cases on the railway - and yes I know there's a lot who deserve the book to be thrown at them.

Done that too, although was a fiver short as Morrison's didn't take their vouchers in the petrol station (I didn't know this).

It's a great example of what I meant when I posed the question.

 

[sheff1]

We are talking about before boarding any trains though?

If the OP had not been alerted to the loss by the booking office they would have been on board before realising.

In similar circumstances, if there was no ticket check for some time a passenger could be well out in the wilds when they discovered the loss.

 

[LowLevel]

It's very hit and miss.

The first step is to remember you're throwing yourself on the mercy of a private company who has little incentive from the starting blocks to give two hoots about what happens to you. Taxi drivers wouldn't take you on a promise, why should the railway and how do they distinguish the genuine cases from the chancers? Police crime reference numbers are easy to obtain and the railway have no means of checking them. I once left a bloke in the middle of nowhere because he took the mick giving me a reference number that was months old having assumed I'd not be able to read them. Unfortunately for him I've had plenty of experience with them. The police do not check anything at all if you report your wallet missing. They just give you a reference number to say they've logged it.

Step forward a step though. Some TOCs encourage their staff to be somewhat altruistic because it's good customer service/it avoids delays caused by arguments between inspectors and the public.

The most likely outcome therefore if you seek help and you're not a known oxygen thief is an unpaid fares notice. Your details are taken, you have a standard 21 days to settle an anytime single fare or you end up in court being prosecuted.

The other side of the coin is that you ask for help, the inspector weighs up your tale of woe, judges it reasonable and waves you on because it's the easiest course of action.

It would be nice to have consistency but it's unlikely to happen.

In my professional opinion you're most likely to get a 'fair' outcome out of a train guard. Revenue protection inspectors are more likely to deal with the matter formally.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

In my professional opinion you're most likely to get a 'fair' outcome out of a train guard. Revenue protection inspectors are more likely to deal with the matter formally.

Probably down to the fact that the guard has other things to do while it is the revenues' raison d'etre.

 

[cuccir]

Done that too, although was a fiver short as Morrison's didn't take their vouchers in the petrol station (I didn't know this).

It's a great example of what I meant when I posed the question.

The fundamental difference is that a driver on a petrol station forecourt has an traceable object with them - their car registration plate - from which an address and name can be found. Of course, there are exceptions to this (they could be driving a stolen car for example), but for a whole range of reasons (if the car is stolen don't attract attention by failing to pay for petrol!), this is much more rare than the dozens (hundreds?) of people a day who deliberately attempt to travel without a ticket and who will often lie to try and get away with this, and who have no obligation to have a verifiable form of ID on them.

It's hard to imagine any system of dealing with a ticket-less, walettless passenger, which doesn't fall into one of the following 3 categories:

1. Reliant on staff's subjective judgement as to whether passengers are telling the truth
2. Prone to abuse by serial fare dodgers
3. Very harsh on genuine cases of bad luck

At the moment, we have category 1 and that may be less bad than both 2 or 3.

 

[rdwarr]

Install a mobile ticket app on your phone. No wallet is required to buy or use a mobile ticket.
That's assuming mobile tickets are available for the journey you're making.

Or just keep one of your cards in your phone case or somewhere else other than your wallet.

 

[davart]

I think the answer is that there is no process for this and if you're unfortunate enough to lose your wallet, you're stuffed.

 

[Clip]

I think the answer is that there is no process for this and if you're unfortunate enough to lose your wallet, you're stuffed.

Indeed which is why there is a digital option( though many on here would never think of encountering using anything digital to assist them and insist that your tickets are safe in a wallet of some sort) but its worth pointing out that you cant board a train without a valid ticket ( usual caveats) so unless you get a permission(written) from someone beforehand or indeed off of the guard then you could open yourself to a penalty of some sort.

 

[curtly]

This has actually happened to me on two occasions. Well slightly similar.

1) I boarded a train from A barriered station (where the barriers are in operation 24/7) and left my wallet on the platform with my tickets in. I quickly made my way to the guard and he was fine and let me travel.

2) I was travelling from a-c changing trains at b. I left my wallet on the train from a-b and then boarded c before I had realised. I could purchase a new ticket using Apple Pay. But a guard contacted the terminus of a-b train, and my wallet was found and he never charged me again.

Hopefully I don’t lose another wallet, but I have gone through quite a lot in my time. I don’t think I’ll ever have a card reach it’s expiry date anyway.