TrawsCambria / TrawsCymru

[TheGrandWazoo]

WHAT! Why? Is this the end? Will we ever have a decent bus network? Is Arriva to blame? Or did WAG try and to force the TrawsCymru livery on Lloyds and Express?

Isn't this because of the movement of the newer ones from the T4 as they're too small (35 seaters)? Sure I read that somewhere. The newer ones are heading over to West Wales and that's displacing the oldest ones for disposal.

From what I'm led to believe, the T4 is doing very well and hence the issues with capacity and overloading so I think it's actually good news. However, don't know whatever happened to the Geminis that were rumoured for the former TC now Arriva Express routes? Was it actually officially announced or was it wishful thinking from someone that morphed into an internet rumour?

 

[Rhydgaled]

Isn't this because of the movement of the newer ones from the T4 as they're too small (35 seaters)? Sure I read that somewhere. The newer ones are heading over to West Wales and that's displacing the oldest ones for disposal.

Remember there are two TrawsCambria routes in north Wales which have never had Tempos, and Richards Bros already have four X1260s (YJ55BKE, YJ55BKF, YJ06YRO and Y06YRZ) plus three X1200s (YJ55BJK, YJ55BKN and YJ06YRY). Also, the core route from Aberystwyth to Carmarthen is not even part of the network currently, and that's the route the 6 new X1260 Tempos were ordered for. Plus New Quay - Aberystwth, also out of the network at the moment.

I've had comments on one of my Flickr photos telling me that 3 of the 6 new X1260 Tempos for the TC1 service (YJ62 FAF, FBF/Z) are operating the T4, replacing YJ61 MMA/E/F, which are due to be transferred to Richards Brothers. However, I wrote to Richards Bros who informed me that they didn't have the buses, they were in store with Pembrokeshire County Council.

I think there are plans to extend the X50 (to Fishguard / St. Davids I hope, but fear it won't be), which I expect will use the 7 Tempos Richards already have (if they take away YJ55BKE and/or YJ55BKF I shall be furious).

To cover the full network, as it should be, (TC1, TC4, 550, extended X50, X94 and X32/TC2) Wales needs all the Tempos it can get, losing some to England is a bad move in my view. I suppose you could cover the loss of one or two Tempos by abandoning the 550 as a Traws route and instead linking up with the X28 and using double deckers on peak journeys.

From what I'm led to believe, the T4 is doing very well and hence the issues with capacity and overloading so I think it's actually good news.

Good news for the T(C)4, bad news for the rest of the network unless Optare will build some more classic X1260 Optare Tempos for the Carmarthen-Aberystwyth route.

However, don't know whatever happened to the Geminis that were rumoured for the former TC now Arriva Express routes? Was it actually officially announced or was it wishful thinking from someone that morphed into an internet rumour?

There were posters put out on bus stops when the Cymru Express was launched and destroyed the Traws network, which claimed new buses were on order. A quick Google found a photograph of one of these posters here. It is the second of the blue bullet-points beneath the service list.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Remember there are two TrawsCambria routes in north Wales which have never had Tempos

That's because they (X32 and X94) were not fully supported but had a mix of commercial and supported journeys. Hence, they had Arriva spec Commanders; the X32 was of course then withdrawn after having a motley collection of Darts on it, whilst the X94 now has B7s. Whilst they had TC branding, those routes were never under full WAG/WG control.

I've had comments on one of my Flickr photos telling me that 3 of the 6 new X1260 Tempos for the TC1 service (YJ62 FAF, FBF/Z) are operating the T4, replacing YJ61 MMA/E/F, which are due to be transferred to Richards Brothers. However, I wrote to Richards Bros who informed me that they didn't have the buses, they were in store with Pembrokeshire County Council.

Correct, that's my understanding


To cover the full network, as it should be, (TC1, TC4, 550, extended X50, X94 and X32/TC2) Wales needs all the Tempos it can get, losing some to England is a bad move in my view. I suppose you could cover the loss of one or two Tempos by abandoning the 550 as a Traws route and instead linking up with the X28 and using double deckers on peak journeys.

Good news for the T(C)4, bad news for the rest of the network unless Optare will build some more classic X1260 Optare Tempos for the Carmarthen-Aberystwyth route.

There were posters put out on bus stops when the Cymru Express was launched and destroyed the Traws network, which claimed new buses were on order. A quick Google found a photograph of one of these posters here. It is the second of the blue bullet-points beneath the service list.

Thanks for the photo. Looks like that won't happen. I also don't think you'll be seeing Tempos on the Carmarthen to Aber service; it'll be Pulsars for the foreseeable, I fear. Mind you, the first Tempos are now getting quite middle aged and their long term suitability for long distance services is questionable too.

 

[DaveHarries]

Good news for the T(C)4, bad news for the rest of the network unless Optare will build some more classic X1260 Optare Tempos for the Carmarthen-Aberystwyth route.

Yes but will they? The other day I saw a demonstrator on the T4 in the guise of an Optare Tempo SR. Had seen it not too long ago as well so the SR has been around for a good few weeks. Failed to note the registration.

Dave

 

[Rhydgaled]

Remember there are two TrawsCambria routes in north Wales which have never had Tempos

That's because they (X32 and X94) were not fully supported but had a mix of commercial and supported journeys. Hence, they had Arriva spec Commanders; the X32 was of course then withdrawn after having a motley collection of Darts on it, whilst the X94 now has B7s. Whilst they had TC branding, those routes were never under full WAG/WG control.

I thought the X40 and 550 were also part-commercial (commercial between Aberystwyth and Aberaeron, subsidised south thereof) hence the frustrating suituation of the X50 seldom working to Aberystwyth because, as a subsidised service, it wasn't allowed between Aberaeron and Aberystwyth because of Arriva's commertial X40/550.

What is a 'B7' that you say is now used on the X94?

My opinion is that the old X1200 Tempos should be used on the X94 and what used to be X32 (perhaps suplemented by Lloyds Coaches' existing X1260 Tempo), and as standby vehicles for the other routes (ensuring there is still a Tempo available if the main ones are out of an MOT that day or something). The X1260s from TrawsCambria (all four now with Richards) should be used on an Aberystwyth - Fishguard Harbour - St. Davids service and the six new X1260s for TC1 should be used, as intended, on Carmarthen - Aberystwyth. The new TC4 order should have been for X1260s to start with. Any leftovers I would suggest using on New Quay - Aberystwyth and a new route from New Quay or Aberystwyth - Brecon.

I also don't think you'll be seeing Tempos on the Carmarthen to Aber service; it'll be Pulsars for the foreseeable, I fear.

Curse Arriva. Why did they have to blow Traws to simtherines, is is it WAG who is to blame for trying to force a change of livery?

Mind you, the first Tempos are now getting quite middle aged and their long term suitability for long distance services is questionable too.

What what you suggest? I personally think the two X50s (YJ55BKE and YJ55BKF are pretty much ideal, though I haven't had a chance to sample the TC4/TC1 Tempos and I think BKE doesn't have WI-FI). And middle aged? They may be 8 years old, but they've always seemed more modern to me than other buses, including an 08-plate Enviro 200 I saw on the X50 in lieu of a Tempo a couple of times.

Yes but will they?

My concern about the loss of Tempos to England is partly due to my fear that Optare won't build any more classic Tempos. The Tempo SR is not nearly so elegant, though it is still better than the Versa and the new hump-backed Solo.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I thought the X40 and 550 were also part-commercial (commercial between Aberystwyth and Aberaeron, subsidised south thereof) hence the frustrating suituation of the X50 seldom working to Aberystwyth because, as a subsidised service, it wasn't allowed between Aberaeron and Aberystwyth because of Arriva's commertial X40/550.

That's the point. The northern services were predominantly commercial with most of the X94, and the X32 south of Dolgellau and north of Porthmadog. However, the X40 was made up of some tendered stuff on the 550 and all the First stuff south of Aberaeron so was predominantly tendered

What is a 'B7' that you say is now used on the X94?

A Volvo B7RLE? The ones now employed are the former KMP Llanberis ones with Wright Eclipse bodies. Some new examples would be good machines on TC routes, and probably better than the Tempos. I know that people may roll their eyes but the First ones are not well looked after. Travel on the ones that Transdev or Go Ahead have, and they're much better

My opinion is that the old X1200 Tempos should be used on the X94 and what used to be X32 (perhaps suplemented by Lloyds Coaches' existing X1260 Tempo), and as standby vehicles for the other routes (ensuring there is still a Tempo available if the main ones are out of an MOT that day or something). The X1260s from TrawsCambria (all four now with Richards) should be used on an Aberystwyth - Fishguard Harbour - St. Davids service and the six new X1260s for TC1 should be used, as intended, on Carmarthen - Aberystwyth. The new TC4 order should have been for X1260s to start with. Any leftovers I would suggest using on New Quay - Aberystwyth and a new route from New Quay or Aberystwyth - Brecon.

I doubt that you'll see an Aber to Brecon service. There is a good service to Lampeter already but the next chunk of route to Llanwrda is very thin on traffic despite many attempts to resurrect it over the years. A better bet would've been linking the 280 Carmarthen to Llandovery with the 80 service to Brecon. However, that would lead to more resources required and don't know if the money is around for that

Curse Arriva. Why did they have to blow Traws to simtherines, is is it WAG who is to blame for trying to force a change of livery?

Arriva own the TrawsCambria name. As for the livery, the old yellow swoosh livery over the top of existing corporate colours was replaced by a standard all encompassing livery to aid recognition. As for Arriva going it alone, I think they were concerned that they'd lose it on tender to someone like Lloyds so thought they'd just do it commercially

 

[Rhydgaled]

A Volvo B7RLE? The ones now employed are the former KMP Llanberis ones with Wright Eclipse bodies. Some new examples would be good machines on TC routes, and probably better than the Tempos.

Do Pulsars also have Wright Eclipse bodies, or do they just look similar externally? As a passenger, I prefer the Tempo body enormously to the mrk2 Eclipse/Pulsar body (the mrk1 Eclipse/Pulsar is better looking than the mrk2, but still doesn't beat the Tempo). The Tempo has a greater feeling of quality, elegance and modernimity if you ask me. When you say better than the Tempos, I'm guessing you mean the underframe/powerplant rather than the body/interior (I have yet to be on anything that beats YJ55BKE/BKF in that respect).

Curse Arriva. Why did they have to blow Traws to simtherines, is is it WAG who is to blame for trying to force a change of livery?

Arriva own the TrawsCambria name. As for the livery, the old yellow swoosh livery over the top of existing corporate colours was replaced by a standard all encompassing livery to aid recognition. As for Arriva going it alone, I think they were concerned that they'd lose it on tender to someone like Lloyds so thought they'd just do it commercially

Maybe my typo threw you. It should have said:

Curse Arriva. Why did they have to blow Traws to simtherines, or is it WAG who is to blame for trying to force a change of livery?

The name change, though disapointing, is fair enough if Arriva refused to let WAG use it. However, my question is whether the standard all encompassing livery WAG has created alienated Arriva (and Lloyds/Express?) who want to have visability of their own corporate brand? Has refusing to allow operators to display their own brand contributed to the disapearance of the Traws brand on all but the Richards Bros and Stagecoach services?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Fair questions. I'll try to answer as well as I can, though I hope that if there's any mistakes, someone can correct me

TrawsCambria was a name dating back to the late 1970s for long distance coach routes from North to South Wales (e.g. Bangor to Cardiff). After deregulation, and some complex ownership changes, it eventually became the property of Arriva.

When the WAG decided to sponsor a new network of expanded or new services, it was chosen as it was already known. On the services that were mainly supported, WAG purchased the Tempos whilst on the X32/X94 (being mainly commercial), Arriva were supported to buy new Commanders. The livery on those were standard Arriva but with TrawsCambria branding. I guess WAG could've put another livery on the Tempos but instead thought common branding would suffice. Hence the Arriva and Richards Tempos had their normal livery whilst the First and Stagecoach ones had interpretations using their normal colours but in different layouts.

When Arriva pulled out, then WG needed a new name, and TrawsCymru was probably more versatile (for services not near the Cambrian Mountains) and also more "Welsh"! Also, they then had full control and could specify a common livery. The disappearance of the TC brand from Arriva is just because they wanted to control how the services operated, and avoid losing the X40 on tender.

As for the bus question. The Wright body is broadly the same, but has different names for different chassis, viz Pulsar (Daf SB200), Eclipse (B7RLE) and Solar (Scania L94). However, the Daf is a lightweight chassis and, in my opinion, the performance and ride quality highlights this. The B7RLE (like the Tempo) is a heavyweight chassis, better suited to interurban work.

The Pulsar has basically the same chassis (possibly slightly updated) to the Commanders that used to run the X32/X94.

Also, Wright double decks are called Eclipse Geminis but can appear with a number of different chassis. First preferred Volvo B7TLs and B9s, whilst Arriva have got them on Daf DB300s and Volvo B5LH (hybrids)

Hope that's accurate and helps!!

 

[starrymarkb]

Mk 1 DAF/VDL Wright Deckers are Pulsar Geminis, The new ones going into Arriva with the facelifted body are a VDL/Wright integral and are just called Gemini 2

 

[Rhydgaled]

Thanks for the explanations. I do have one correction though:

I guess WAG could've put another livery on the Tempos but instead thought common branding would suffice. Hence the Arriva and Richards Tempos had their normal livery whilst the First and Stagecoach ones had interpretations using their normal colours but in different layouts.

The TrawsCambria branding was (still is on the Richards examples) basiclly the Arriva livery, in the operator's choice of colours, with TrawsCambria stickers added. As such the Richards ones are not quite their normal livery, but like First and Stagecoach use their own colours in a different (Arriva's) arrangment.

The disappearance of the TC brand from Arriva is just because they wanted to control how the services operated, and avoid losing the X40 on tender.

So the comments I've had on my Flickr that Arriva, Lloyds and Express rejected TrawsCymru partly on the basis of not wanting to use the TrawsCymru livery are completely unfounded then?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Thanks for the explanations. I do have one correction though:

The TrawsCambria branding was (still is on the Richards examples) basiclly the Arriva livery, in the operator's choice of colours, with TrawsCambria stickers added. As such the Richards ones are not quite their normal livery, but like First and Stagecoach use their own colours in a different (Arriva's) arrangment.

So the comments I've had on my Flickr that Arriva, Lloyds and Express rejected TrawsCymru partly on the basis of not wanting to use the TrawsCymru livery are completely unfounded then?

The First and Stagecoach ones weren't quite to Arriva's arrangement. They didn't have the white accent line and the swoop on Stagecoach's didn't come down as low. All subtly different As for Richards Bros, I was getting confused and yes, their livery was different though again, whilst similar to Arriva, it too was different.

That's the historical bit done though why Express and Lloyds don't carry the livery, I don't know. Might be because it wasn't specified in the tender pack (cost saving?) and as the vehicles are theirs (as opposed to WG supplied) then possibly that may also be the reason, as it does limit their use on other non TC work. However, the Arriva bit, I think I've covered off.

Another question might be why the X43 (which is listed as Traws Cymru Connect) is operated by standard Stagecoach liveried Solos and isn't branded as such, though that might again be because of interworking of those vehicles on Brecon locals.

In short, TC is a right muddle these days, and much of the issue rests with WG. I can understand why Arriva pulled the X40, as the northern section was historically theirs commercially and they wanted to protect this. Oh, and the website is a joke!

 

[Rhydgaled]

The First and Stagecoach ones weren't quite to Arriva's arrangement. They didn't have the white accent line and the swoop on Stagecoach's didn't come down as low.

Accent line?

Yes, the Stagecoach examples cut the swoop off in line with the bodywork, nice and neat. Those three buses have a different (slightly less messy) version of the TrawsCymru livery too. I never noticed any difference between the arangment on the First, Arriva and Richards examples though, just the colours.

That's the historical bit done though why Express and Lloyds don't carry the livery, I don't know. Might be because it wasn't specified in the tender pack (cost saving?) and as the vehicles are theirs (as opposed to WG supplied) then possibly that may also be the reason, as it does limit their use on other non TC work. However, the Arriva bit, I think I've covered off.

The comments I had on Flickr were saying two of the ex-Arriva Tempos had been allocated to Lloyds/Express for the X32's replacement but never used due to Lloyds/Express refusing to use them. These Tempos would presumably have been given the TrawsCymru livery had they been used. Another comment claimed that: Arriva don't want to operate the TrawsCymru, because they don't want to change their livery. The picture isn't great, but triggered quite a discussion.

Another question might be why the X43 (which is listed as Traws Cymru Connect) is operated by standard Stagecoach liveried Solos and isn't branded as such, though that might again be because of interworking of those vehicles on Brecon locals.

I don't think any service 'branded' TrawsCymru Connect has any indication of that brand other than marks on the timetables, do they? Even the TrawsCymru website doesn't mention the 'connect' services, except for in the T4 timetable. And, speak of the devil:

Oh, and the website is a joke!

Agreed, there's next to no information there. The previous one, though still branded TrawsCambria, actually had some information about the history of the network and the plans for the new TrawsCymru TC1 and TC4 (useful for quoting sources on wikipedia, now we have nothing).

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Accent line?

Accent line or "keyline" is the white line to split the acqumarine from the cotswold colours

The comments I had on Flickr were saying two of the ex-Arriva Tempos had been allocated to Lloyds/Express for the X32's replacement but never used due to Lloyds/Express refusing to use them. These Tempos would presumably have been given the TrawsCymru livery had they been used. Another comment claimed that: Arriva don't want to operate the TrawsCymru, because they don't want to change their livery. The picture isn't great, but triggered quite a discussion.

Don't know why the ex Arriva Tempos weren't used. Perhaps age or condition? Or perhaps a bit non standard for their fleets. However, the idea that Arriva pulled out of TC because they wanted to retain their livery is way off the mark.

The section from Aber to Aberaeron was Arriva's and always was, dating back from CW days, and its one of the few decent routes they had. To get the X40 to exist, WAG had to get Arriva to work south to Carmarthen and allow First to work north to Aber. That was fine and was even better when Arriva took over First's workings. However, then the renewal of the tender was fast approaching, knew Mid Wales and Lloyds were probably looking to get it, so Arriva decided to run it commercially.

I don't think any service 'branded' TrawsCymru Connect has any indication of that brand other than marks on the timetables, do they? Even the TrawsCymru website doesn't mention the 'connect' services, except for in the T4 timetable. And, speak of the devil:
Agreed, there's next to no information there. The previous one, though still branded TrawsCambria, actually had some information about the history of the network and the plans for the new TrawsCymru TC1 and TC4 (useful for quoting sources on wikipedia, now we have nothing).

If WG wanted the T2 to be fully TC liveried, or the X43, then they could probably do it. Not certain how much of the X63 is tendered, but guess most of it is. Very easy for politicians to blame Arriva but really, they need to shoulder a lot of the blame!

 

[Rhydgaled]

If WG wanted the T2 to be fully TC liveried, or the X43, then they could probably do it. Not certain how much of the X63 is tendered, but guess most of it is. Very easy for politicians to blame Arriva but really, they need to shoulder a lot of the blame!

What could WAG have done to keep the network together? I'm still not sure whether to blame them or Arriva.

Accent line or "keyline" is the white line to split the acqumarine from the cotswold colours

If by 'Cotswold Colours' you mean the Cream Swoop, I can't say I ever noticed the white accent line on the Arriva TrawsCambria Tempos, and assumed the white accent line wasn't a universal feature of Arriva's livery. The TrawsCambria examples don't/didn't have the thin yellow stripe down the side (present on some other Arriva buses) either.

Don't know why the ex Arriva Tempos weren't used. Perhaps age or condition? Or perhaps a bit non standard for their fleets.

Condition might be a possibility I suppose, the comments on my photo suggested that and livery as causes of rejection. Although Richards and Marchants don't seem to mind the condition. Both Lloyds and Express have a Tempo in their fleets already.

However, the idea that Arriva pulled out of TC because they wanted to retain their livery is way off the mark.

It did seem rather petty, refusing on grounds of livery, but the second item of Arriva's customer promise does put a different angle on it.

The section from Aber to Aberaeron was Arriva's and always was, dating back from CW days, and its one of the few decent routes they had. To get the X40 to exist, WAG had to get Arriva to work south to Carmarthen and allow First to work north to Aber. That was fine and was even better when Arriva took over First's workings. However, then the renewal of the tender was fast approaching, knew Mid Wales and Lloyds were probably looking to get it, so Arriva decided to run it commercially.

Thanks, that's interesting. How did WAG manage to make them let First run through? Something to do with why that route got Tempos and X32/X94 didn't? How come they were able to tender the service though, given that part of it was commertial? Something doesn't add up.

Why did First's workings cease anyway? Only having a depot at one end of such a long route seems a bit silly to me (last bus Aberystwyth to Carmarthen is rather early in the evenings, and the first northbound very late on Saturdays). In that regard, isn't Lloyds a bit far away to work the service? I thought it'd only be between Arriva and Mid Wales Travel at the north end, and First and Morris Travel (I think both have a Carmarthen base) at the other.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

What could WAG have done to keep the network together? I'm still not sure whether to blame them or Arriva.

If by 'Cotswold Colours' you mean the Cream Swoop, I can't say I ever noticed the white accent line on the Arriva TrawsCambria Tempos, and assumed the white accent line wasn't a universal feature of Arriva's livery. The TrawsCambria examples don't/didn't have the thin yellow stripe down the side (present on some other Arriva buses) either.

Condition might be a possibility I suppose, the comments on my photo suggested that and livery as causes of rejection. Although Richards and Marchants don't seem to mind the condition. Both Lloyds and Express have a Tempo in their fleets already.

It did seem rather petty, refusing on grounds of livery, but the second item of Arriva's customer promise does put a different angle on it.

Thanks, that's interesting. How did WAG manage to make them let First run through? Something to do with why that route got Tempos and X32/X94 didn't? How come they were able to tender the service though, given that part of it was commertial? Something doesn't add up.

Why did First's workings cease anyway? Only having a depot at one end of such a long route seems a bit silly to me (last bus Aberystwyth to Carmarthen is rather early in the evenings, and the first northbound very late on Saturdays). In that regard, isn't Lloyds a bit far away to work the service? I thought it'd only be between Arriva and Mid Wales Travel at the north end, and First and Morris Travel (I think both have a Carmarthen base) at the other.

Wow, you do ask a lot of questions!! Will try not to bore people but will try to answer them.

The Arriva Commanders were standard kit (e.g. full livery, upholstery etc) so did have the keyline and yellow trim. The Arriva tempos didn't have it nor Arriva moquette but were the same internally as the Stagecoach and First ones. As for why Lloyds/Express didn't want them, I don't know. The most probable reason is they didn't want some high mileage, middle aged kit to operate whilst not knowing how well they'd been maintained; don't know if the spec was the same as their own machines either. Also, haven't Lloyds got rid of their example? Now the big bit....

There's nothing that doesn't "add up" so no need for conspiracy theories. The history is that the X40 was created by linking two existing services.
The half hourly Arriva 550 was the old Crosville service, operated from an outbase in New Quay (yard at the back of the old depot) and used pretty old Olympians and Lynxes. It was mainly commercial but with some tendered journeys. The other was First's (former Davies Bros) 201/2 service south of Aberaeron. It was all tendered (I think) and so the idea was to link the two to form a through service.

Arriva got new vehicles, as did First, to replace their ageing stuff. The deal meant that they (Arriva) allowed First to operate through to Carmarthen, but it was tendered south of Aberaeron AND they had most of the workings so they probably were no worse off and got new kit into the bargain In fact, the Arriva diagrams were Ceredigion CC, whilst the First ones were Carmarthen CC; I don't know why it was split that way, but it was. Despite one First duty beginning and finishing at Llandysul, their workings were all from Carmarthen.

In 2009, First lost the 461/2 Carmarthen to Newcastle Emlyn service, and then the 280/1 Carmarthen to Llandovery service. That meant Carmarthen depot wasn't viable so they closed it in September 2009. Most services were reallocated to Llanelli or Ammanford depots but the schools work, some other tenders and the X40 was handed back.

Arriva picked up the two X40 workings and got the two Tempos and painted them in the interurban livery, though one soon got burnt out. To operate these workings, they opened an outbase in Pencader. This is despite already having an outbase in Lampeter for two vehicles (next to a rather odd gentleman's bungalow, for the 585 and 588), but there wasn't room for any more vehicles. Believe the Pencader outbase closed about a year or so ago. Don't know if it all runs from Aber now? The only real loss is the last Aber to Lampeter service runs an hour earlier than it used to, and doesn't operate to Carmarthen but it probably didn't carry that many anyway

I spent some time in Lampeter in mid 2009 so I can vouch for a fair chunk of that first hand. That said, I'm probably more familiar with the X32 and X94!!

 

[Rhydgaled]

Wow, you do ask a lot of questions!! Will try not to bore people but will try to answer them.

Yes, I do have lots of questions about Traws, thanks for trying to answer them.

The Arriva Commanders were standard kit (e.g. full livery, upholstery etc) so did have the keyline and yellow trim.

Ah, can't say I noticed that. Well spotted.

Also, haven't Lloyds got rid of their example?

It was up for sale at Stafford Bus Centre, but I think (and hope) Lloyds took it back again.

There's nothing that doesn't "add up" so no need for conspiracy theories. The history is that the X40 was created by linking two existing services.

The half hourly Arriva 550 was the old Crosville service, operated from an outbase in New Quay (yard at the back of the old depot) and used pretty old Olympians and Lynxes. It was mainly commercial but with some tendered journeys. The other was First's (former Davies Bros) 201/2 service south of Aberaeron. It was all tendered (I think) and so the idea was to link the two to form a through service.

So the 550 was half-hourly before? That's news to me, was it half-hourly all the way to New Quay? And did it have the every-two-hours run to Cardigan or was that part of the TrawsCambria launch? Did the tendered journeys on 550 equate to one an hour (which became X40)?

The bit that doesn't seem to add up is that I've been told (when campaigning for the X50 to run to Aberystwyth all day) that councils are forbidden from tendering services on a commertially-operated section of route. If this were true, the council would not have been able to issue the tender for TC1 as a through service, only the Carmarthen to Aberaeron section. Come to think of it, the Richards Bros 412 timetable used to have one commertial diagram (11am Cardigan - Haverfordwest and 1pm return, worked by Tempo YJ55BKF during the X50's short-working hours). How come the council were able to tender the rest of the hourly service?

In 2009, First lost the 461/2 Carmarthen to Newcastle Emlyn service, and then the 280/1 Carmarthen to Llandovery service. That meant Carmarthen depot wasn't viable so they closed it in September 2009. Most services were reallocated to Llanelli or Ammanford depots but the schools work, some other tenders and the X40 was handed back.

Ah, that explains why First's X40 went. Have they reopened the depot though because I've seen a yard in Carmarthen with a number of vehicles (yellow school coaches if I remember rightly) and a big First sign?

Arriva picked up the two X40 workings and got the two Tempos and painted them in the interurban livery, though one soon got burnt out.

I think YJ55BJF is the one that got burnt out, I saw it in the Aberystwyth depot but it had lost its number plate. First had three Tempos, YJ55BJE I have also seen in Arriva's newer livery. The third First Tempo, YJ55BJK, is now with Richards Bros (seemed to be diagramed on their share of service 550, except the working to Aberystwth which seem to be part of the X50 diagrams). Which brings up another of my questions, what caused the 550 to be split? (Arriva used to operate every two hours to Cardigan, now the big-three (First, Arriva, Stagecoach) are absent from Cardigan, which generally I'm pleased about aside from the way they split 550 involves 'connections' across a 50mph strech of busy trunk road).

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yes, I do have lots of questions about Traws, thanks for trying to answer them.

So the 550 was half-hourly before? That's news to me, was it half-hourly all the way to New Quay? And did it have the every-two-hours run to Cardigan or was that part of the TrawsCambria launch? Did the tendered journeys on 550 equate to one an hour (which became X40)?

Was half hourly (I think) to Synod Inn. However, I'd have to check about if it went further

The bit that doesn't seem to add up is that I've been told (when campaigning for the X50 to run to Aberystwyth all day) that councils are forbidden from tendering services on a commertially-operated section of route. If this were true, the council would not have been able to issue the tender for TC1 as a through service, only the Carmarthen to Aberaeron section.

That is correct. They can't support a service that runs against a commercial operation. However, as regards the X40, I'm not certain what part of the route the tender referred to. However, if it was the whole route, then I'm certain there wouldn't have been an objection from Arriva anyway. That would be the case if the X50 was extended to Aber now though

Ah, that explains why First's X40 went. Have they reopened the depot though because I've seen a yard in Carmarthen with a number of vehicles (yellow school coaches if I remember rightly) and a big First sign?

Don't know. Nothing on VOSA - the only O license is the old depot

Which brings up another of my questions, what caused the 550 to be split? (Arriva used to operate every two hours to Cardigan, now the big-three (First, Arriva, Stagecoach) are absent from Cardigan, which generally I'm pleased about aside from the way they split 550 involves 'connections' across a 50mph strech of busy trunk road). QUOTE]

Wasn't aware Stagecoach operated to Cardigan. First disappeared when they lost the 461/2 in 2009, as stated earlier
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


**UPDATE**

Ok, had a check of my GBBTT from 1999. Detail is a bit iffy but here goes.

Looks like the 550 was hourly at that time between Aberystwyth and Synod Inn, operated by Arriva. It connected with Richards Bros service (Cardigan to Synod Inn), though in peak times it also operated through to Aber (similar to now).

The 201/2 was operated two hourly from Carmarthen to Lampeter and Aberaeron by Davies Bros, though this was picked up by First when Davies Bros went bust. First also picked up the 460/1 Carmarthen - Newcastle Emlyn - Cardigan service at this time; this service was traditionally operated by Crosville and Crosville Wales (latterly numbered 400) from their Newcastle Emlyn depot until they lost it in 1990.

 

[Rhydgaled]

The bit that doesn't seem to add up is that I've been told (when campaigning for the X50 to run to Aberystwyth all day) that councils are forbidden from tendering services on a commertially-operated section of route. If this were true, the council would not have been able to issue the tender for TC1 as a through service, only the Carmarthen to Aberaeron section.

That is correct. They can't support a service that runs against a commercial operation. However, as regards the X40, I'm not certain what part of the route the tender referred to. However, if it was the whole route, then I'm certain there wouldn't have been an objection from Arriva anyway. That would be the case if the X50 was extended to Aber now though

So it is legal for councils to tender on a commertial route, as long as the commertial operator is happy with that? If so, couldn't Arriva have objected to the TC1 tender on the grounds that they had Aberystwyth-Aberaeron commertially rather than take on the entire route commertially as CymruExpress?

Ah, that explains why First's X40 went. Have they reopened the depot though because I've seen a yard in Carmarthen with a number of vehicles (yellow school coaches if I remember rightly) and a big First sign?

Don't know. Nothing on VOSA - the only O license is the old depot

Just been trying to find a photo of it for you. The ones I've found are dated 2009 or earlier, from which I can say the depot I've seen is the same one. Maybe they just never took their signs down, or kept it for occasional use but cut most of the staff?

Wasn't aware Stagecoach operated to Cardigan. First disappeared when they lost the 461/2 in 2009, as stated earlier

I'm not aware of Stagecoach ever working to Cardigan either, but they are one of the 'big three' whether or not they ever operated to Cardigan. The only 'big-three' operations to Cardigan I know about were Arriva on the 550 and First on the 460, both now operated by Richards Bros (jointly with Morris Travel in the latter case).

Looks like the 550 was hourly at that time between Aberystwyth and Synod Inn, operated by Arriva. It connected with Richards Bros service (Cardigan to Synod Inn), though in peak times it also operated through to Aber (similar to now).

So basicly the 550 has returned to how it was before Arriva's was extended down to Cardigan every two hours as part of TrawsCambria?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

So it is legal for councils to tender on a commertial route, as long as the commertial operator is happy with that? If so, couldn't Arriva have objected to the TC1 tender on the grounds that they had Aberystwyth-Aberaeron commertially rather than take on the entire route commertially as CymruExpress?

Just been trying to find a photo of it for you. The ones I've found are dated 2009 or earlier, from which I can say the depot I've seen is the same one. Maybe they just never took their signs down, or kept it for occasional use but cut most of the staff?

I'm not aware of Stagecoach ever working to Cardigan either, but they are one of the 'big three' whether or not they ever operated to Cardigan. The only 'big-three' operations to Cardigan I know about were Arriva on the 550 and First on the 460, both now operated by Richards Bros (jointly with Morris Travel in the latter case).

So basicly the 550 has returned to how it was before Arriva's was extended down to Cardigan every two hours as part of TrawsCambria?

Closest Stagecoach got to Cardigan was probably Aberaeron. The 550 is sort of back to as it was excepted that the southern section runs from Cardigan to Aberaeron (rather than stopping at Synod Inn).

As for tenders over a commercial route, there are only limited areas where a council can justify. Remember that the 1985 Transport Act specifies that tenders are where commercial bus operators are unable or unwilling to provide a service. Where tenders exist over commercial sections, these can be :

- A frequency enhancement (i.e. a two hourly commercial service has a two hourly tender to make it hourly)
- Common sections of route that don't make up most of the tender because of a major traffic objective (e.g. the X32 will operate to Bangor because of the hospital)

In the case of the X32, Arriva probably could raise an objection for it operating between Caernarfon and Bangor but the fact it runs infrequently means that the ability to take trade from the 5/X5 has minimal impact. However, extending the daytime X50 from Aberaeron to Aber every hour most certainly would and Arriva would definitely object! It would also require an additional vehicle to be paid for at a time of increasing budgetary pressure. Therefore, I think it's safe to say that the X50 will not be reaching Aber any time soon

 

[Rhydgaled]

Where tenders exist over commercial sections, these can be :

- A frequency enhancement (i.e. a two hourly commercial service has a two hourly tender to make it hourly)
- Common sections of route that don't make up most of the tender because of a major traffic objective (e.g. the X32 will operate to Bangor because of the hospital)

In the case of the X32, Arriva probably could raise an objection for it operating between Caernarfon and Bangor but the fact it runs infrequently means that the ability to take trade from the 5/X5 has minimal impact. However, extending the daytime X50 from Aberaeron to Aber every hour most certainly would and Arriva would definitely object! It would also require an additional vehicle to be paid for at a time of increasing budgetary pressure. Therefore, I think it's safe to say that the X50 will not be reaching Aber any time soon

The X50 is only every two hours, not hourly, and unless Richards' diagrams have changed (or buses can't carry enough fuel for a whole days service and fill up every evening) there wouldn't be any extra vehicles required.

I guess the TC1 tender would have been justified on point 2 (and, if Arriva didn't win it and retained their Aberystwyth - Aberaeron service too there'd also be a boost from 2bph to 3bph). Similarly you could claim Aberystwyth as a major traffic objective for the X50. It too has a hospital, and university and a railway station, which you don't have in Aberaeron. Again, it'd also be a boost in frequency (unless you cut the 50/550 to 2-hourly and run the X50 in the other hour).

It seems the 'councils may not tender on a commertial route' isn't nearly as black & white as I thought, so thanks for elightening me of my lack of knowlege.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The X50 is only every two hours, not hourly, and unless Richards' diagrams have changed (or buses can't carry enough fuel for a whole days service and fill up every evening) there wouldn't be any extra vehicles required.

I guess the TC1 tender would have been justified on point 2 (and, if Arriva didn't win it and retained their Aberystwyth - Aberaeron service too there'd also be a boost from 2bph to 3bph). Similarly you could claim Aberystwyth as a major traffic objective for the X50. It too has a hospital, and university and a railway station, which you don't have in Aberaeron. Again, it'd also be a boost in frequency (unless you cut the 50/550 to 2-hourly and run the X50 in the other hour).

I don't know how you work that out? I confess I don't know the X50/550 that well but I think it's a basic hourly combined service, operated by two vehicles (hence my slight error on the hourly bit)? I was thinking that you'd want to extend both the X50 and 550 hourly northwards from Aberaeron to Aber?

However, even if you only did the X50 two hourly, you still need an extra vehicle. Basically, the calculation is...

X50 Cardigan to Aberaeron takes 43 mins (or 1h 26 drive time per round trip). One vehicle is currently doing that on a two hour circuit. Extending it to Aberystwyth is another 35-38 mins each way (1hr 16 drive time). Total drive time is circa 2h 42. To do an hourly service throughout needs 3 vehicles.

However, even just a two hourly extension (on a convoluted 4 hour cycle) is 2hr 42 + 1 hr 26 drive time - that's more than 4 hours and doesn't include ANY turnaround time etc. Therefore, unless you're going to try to interwork with something else, then it must need an extra vehicle.

Also, you mention the facilities in Aber that Aberaeron doesn't have, and that this might be some sort of "social justification". Well, the people of Aberaeron and New Quay can already access them by Cymru Express. The people in Cardigan can access those in Carmarthen (BTW, the hospitals in Bangor and Carmarthen are much bigger with a greater range of services and catchment area than Aber) so you're (the WG) basically trying to justify something on the grounds of those people who live in a few villages between Synod Inn and Cardigan.

I appreciate you might really want it to happen but I can't see it happening unless Arriva withdrew their services. Too much cost, threat of legal challenge and for a limited social benefit, I'm afraid.

 

[Rhydgaled]

I don't know how you work that out? I confess I don't know the X50/550 that well but I think it's a basic hourly combined service, operated by two vehicles (hence my slight error on the hourly bit)? I was thinking that you'd want to extend both the X50 and 550 hourly northwards from Aberaeron to Aber?

I similarly must confess to not knowing the route that well now, but I used it regularly a year ago for two years before that and had a pretty good idea what the diagrams were before the 06-plate Tempos (and YJ55BKN) from Arriva arrived.

YJ55BKF's Diagram
05:45 Cardigan - New Quay - Aberystwyth
07:30 Aberystwyth - Cardigan
08:50 Cardigan - Aberaeron
09:35 Aberaeron - Cardigan
11:00 Cardigan - Fishguard - Haverfordwest (412)
13:00 Haverfordwest - Fishguard - Cardigan (412)
14:30 Cardigan - Aberystwyth
16:05 Aberystwyth - Cardigan
18:35 Cardigan - Aberporth - New Quay - Aberystwyth
20:55 Aberystwyth - New Quay - Cardigan

YJ55BKE's Diagram
07:20 Cardigan - Aberystwyth
09:10 Aberystwyth - Cardigan
10:50 Cardigan - Aberaeron
11:55 Aberaeron - Cardigan
12:50 Cardigan - Aberaeron
13:55 Aberaeron - Cardigan
Never worked this bit out, but I think it did local trips eg. Cillgerran and Poppit Sands
17:36 Cardigan - Aberporth - New Quay - Aberystwyth
19:45 Aberystwyth - New Quay - Aberporth - Cardigan

The majority of 550 trips to Synod Inn seemed to be diagramed for ex-First YJ55BJK. The 18:15 Aberystwyth - Cardigan (and the corosponding northbound working) were RB02DAF, but I don't think that'd really be necessary with some slight tinkering to the timetable.

Exact timings may be slightly different now, but from the little I've seen since then, I think the diagrams are the same but with the 06-plates replacing YJ55BKE and YJ55BKF (sadly).

Five buses were fitted with wi-fi for the 412 route. However, if you look at the timetable for that it requires only four vehicles. The 5th wi-fi bus was YJ55BKF, since it ran the 11am Cardigan - Haverfordwest and 1pm return, which has the effect of shifting the four main 412 diagrams along one slot. Running 412 as 4 diagrams would release the Tempo from the 11am Cardigan - Haverfordwest and 1pm return cycle, allowing the X50 to extend to Aberystwyth I would think.

Also, you mention the facilities in Aber that Aberaeron doesn't have, and that this might be some sort of "social justification". Well, the people of Aberaeron and New Quay can already access them by Cymru Express. The people in Cardigan can access those in Carmarthen (BTW, the hospitals in Bangor and Carmarthen are much bigger with a greater range of services and catchment area than Aber) so you're (the WG) basically trying to justify something on the grounds of those people who live in a few villages between Synod Inn and Cardigan.

From Cardigan it can be much faster to use Aberystwyth station than Carmarthen for some destinations though, just as it is probably faster to get to Cardiff from Aberystwyth via the former X40 to Carmarthen than just by rail.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Five buses were fitted with wi-fi for the 412 route. However, if you look at the timetable for that it requires only four vehicles. The 5th wi-fi bus was YJ55BKF, since it ran the 11am Cardigan - Haverfordwest and 1pm return, which has the effect of shifting the four main 412 diagrams along one slot. Running 412 as 4 diagrams would release the Tempo from the 11am Cardigan - Haverfordwest and 1pm return cycle, allowing the X50 to extend to Aberystwyth I would think.

From Cardigan it can be much faster to use Aberystwyth station than Carmarthen for some destinations though, just as it is probably faster to get to Cardiff from Aberystwyth via the former X40 to Carmarthen than just by rail.

5 vehicles for a route that could be run by 4? One wonders why they don't cut a vehicle anyway?

In truth, whilst I appreciate what you're saying, Carmarthen is much more of gateway to the rail network. It has at least a train every hour to Swansea and Cardiff (sometimes half hourly) rather than every two hours to Shrewsbury and Birmingham. I think there may be a struggle to justify the social aspect of any northerly extension, especially as there is an existing facility from New Quay and Aberaeron to Aber.

That said, it's all academic. Arriva would be up in arms and rightly so, having a supported service being run over their commercial service, losing revenue from both X50 transfers and traffic from the 50 route. It won't happen unless Arriva pull the plug.

I'd also say that if there was public money to be spent in Wales, there are more deserving cases to have it spent on, rather than duplicating the 40/50 to Aber; would sooner see an extra vehicle on the Carmarthen to Llandovery service to make that hourly rather than the 90 min headway and upgrade the rolling stock on that.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Well it certainly seems that the shinning light of a brighter future for buses has been extinguished. TrawsCymru is dead, aside from T(C)4, the buses have been stolen to support the most enviromentally damaging form of transport I can think of, aviation.

5 vehicles for a route that could be run by 4? One wonders why they don't cut a vehicle anyway?

I've been thinking about this, and I've come up with two ideas. The first is if they always refuel at their depot (I don't know if they have refueling facilities or not) and a bus can't do the whole day without refueling. The other is suggested by the fact I knew the individual bus booked for each diagram. Three of the diagrams come out of Newport depot, the fourth is Cardigan based. On the current timetable, if the Tempo doesn't take a working the bus that ends up at Cardigan is not the one that started there. Of course that could be solved by changing the timetable and running later services through to Cardigan, and some Cardigan - Newport trips.

In truth, whilst I appreciate what you're saying, Carmarthen is much more of gateway to the rail network. It has at least a train every hour to Swansea and Cardiff (sometimes half hourly) rather than every two hours to Shrewsbury and Birmingham. I think there may be a struggle to justify the social aspect of any northerly extension, especially as there is an existing facility from New Quay and Aberaeron to Aber.

Wasn't the primary objective of TrawsCambria to fill the gaps in the rail network? The X50 at the moment rarely visits a rail-served town.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Well it certainly seems that the shinning light of a brighter future for buses has been extinguished. TrawsCymru is dead, aside from T(C)4, the buses have been stolen to support the most enviromentally damaging form of transport I can think of, aviation.

Wasn't the primary objective of TrawsCambria to fill the gaps in the rail network? The X50 at the moment rarely visits a rail-served town.

Sorry to be brutal but you seem pre-occupied about extending the X50 to Aber, and I can't quite see why.

Cardigan is ALREADY linked to the rail network by the 460 to Carmarthen; this is a much more useful link with Carmarthen being a gateway with more trains to a greater number of more useful locations than Aber. All the places between Synod Inn and Aber are already served by Arriva's 50, so what you're saying is that you want to provide a rail link for the villages between Cardigan and Synod Inn. How many people is that likely to benefit? Even for Cardigan folk, how many are actually going to travel to Aber to get the train?

If the WG had the money to fund it and could extend a service over an existing service in that way, I could think of much better candidates such as extending the 12 Pwllheli to Caernarfon to Bangor, or enhancing the Brecon to Llandovery service.

At least you've now seen that it isn't necessarily Arriva's fault about TC and its demise - that's what happens when politicians get involved

 

[Rhydgaled]

Sorry to be brutal but you seem pre-occupied about extending the X50 to Aber, and I can't quite see why.

Why? Arriva, I guess. They've shown strong disregard for the 'connections' at Aberaeron and Synod Inn in the past. They've also torn up all the through-ticketing arrangements except the West Wales Rover. If all the connections actually worked (remember there's supposed to be connections to/from Lampeter too*, and it might be nice to have connections to New Quay) then maybe I wouldn't be complaining. I seem to remember problems with buses to Aberystwyth turning up in the North Pembrokeshire Transport Fourm's news briefing at one point also.

* Actually, there's another reason. It must be easier to timetable a two-way connection at Aberaeron than a four-way one.

Cardigan is ALREADY linked to the rail network by the 460 to Carmarthen; this is a much more useful link with Carmarthen being a gateway with more trains to a greater number of more useful locations than Aber.

For accessing Carmarthen station the 460 isn't a great link though, 1hr 40mins on a bus with very little legroom. And a greater number of useful locations? Yes there is Swansea, and granted you'd get to Paddington via Carmarthen about 30mins quicker than you'd get to Euston via Aberystwyth (ignoring bus/rail connection times for both routes) but given that going via Aberystwyth seems a very long way round 30mins faster doesn't sound much, so pretty much anything from Birmingham northwards is probably going to be faster via Aberystwyth than via Carmarthen.

All the places between Synod Inn and Aber are already served by Arriva's 50, so what you're saying is that you want to provide a rail link for the villages between Cardigan and Synod Inn. How many people is that likely to benefit? Even for Cardigan folk, how many are actually going to travel to Aber to get the train?

I've no idea how many would be after a train, but I would guess that the majority of passengers who use the X50/550 from Cardigan and villages between Cardigan and Synod Inn want to go Aberystwyth and the same is probably true of potential passengers on the corridor.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Why? Arriva, I guess. They've shown strong disregard for the 'connections' at Aberaeron and Synod Inn in the past. They've also torn up all the through-ticketing arrangements except the West Wales Rover. If all the connections actually worked (remember there's supposed to be connections to/from Lampeter too*, and it might be nice to have connections to New Quay) then maybe I wouldn't be complaining. I seem to remember problems with buses to Aberystwyth turning up in the North Pembrokeshire Transport Fourm's news briefing at one point also.

Failure to make connections is a failure to operate to a registered timetable and this should be reported to the traffic commissioner. Also, and we've covered this before, you cannot operate over a commercial service. This is what you've been told by TrawsCymru, isn't it.

* Actually, there's another reason. It must be easier to timetable a two-way connection at Aberaeron than a four-way one.
For accessing Carmarthen station the 460 isn't a great link though, 1hr 40mins on a bus with very little legroom. And a greater number of useful locations? Yes there is Swansea, and granted you'd get to Paddington via Carmarthen about 30mins quicker than you'd get to Euston via Aberystwyth (ignoring bus/rail connection times for both routes) but given that going via Aberystwyth seems a very long way round 30mins faster doesn't sound much, so pretty much anything from Birmingham northwards is probably going to be faster via Aberystwyth than via Carmarthen.

I've no idea how many would be after a train, but I would guess that the majority of passengers who use the X50/550 from Cardigan and villages between Cardigan and Synod Inn want to go Aberystwyth and the same is probably true of potential passengers on the corridor.

Well, for a start, you've missed out the capital city of Wales as well! I'd venture that Swansea and Cardiff (and London) are much more likely destinations than Birmingham or Northern England/Scotland. Perhaps another indication of how appropriate the link is the respective usage of Carmarthen and Aber rail stations. Despite Aber having a marginally larger population, Carmarthen has 30% more rail users. That should tell you what you need to know - Carmarthen is much more of a gateway than Aber is to the UK rail network. That's reflected in the service each sees; between 0700 and 1200, Aber has 3 journeys east whilst Carm has 7.

I appreciate that you have a particular, almost passionate, wish to see the X50 extended to Aber. However, given the pressure on finances, there are much more deserving cases to have the money spent on them. As regards "bang for your buck, an extra vehicle would allow:

• 280/1 Llandovery to Carmarthen to enjoy an hourly frequency
• X25 to be reinstated between Newport and Monmouth
• Extra journeys from Brecon to Llandovery

Therefore, whilst you now mention the customers wishing to travel from Cardigan to Aber without changing, that can be applied to many a place as mentioned above - there are more deserving cases than extending the X50 to Aber

 

[Rhydgaled]

Failure to make connections is a failure to operate to a registered timetable and this should be reported to the traffic commissioner.

Isn't the traffic commissioner only interested in delays longer than 5mins, in which case it's no help when the 'connections' are timetabled for one service to leave in the same minute as the other arrives or when Arriva changes their timetable to miss the connection without giving Richards a chance to retime their services to maintain the connection.

Maybe there are cases 'more deserving' of improvement, but that doesn't mean suituation with the X50 does not need fixing also.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Isn't the traffic commissioner only interested in delays longer than 5mins, in which case it's no help when the 'connections' are timetabled for one service to leave in the same minute as the other arrives or when Arriva changes their timetable to miss the connection without giving Richards a chance to retime their services to maintain the connection.

Maybe there are cases 'more deserving' of improvement, but that doesn't mean suituation with the X50 does not need fixing also.

Looking at the timetables, the X50/550 arrives in Aberaeron at either xx.31 or xx.34 mins past the hour, with the connecting 40 leaving for Aber at xx.45. Returning, the 40 arrives in Aberaeron at xx.35 with the X50/550 leaving at xx.45. Therefore, if connections are being missed, then the delay must be more than 5 minutes?

As for X50 needing fixing, that's a very subjective thing. You originally said it was for rail connections (yet I'd venture that the market for rail passengers to head from Cardigan and Aberporth to the Cambrian Main Line and onward is minimal). That's also indicated by the respective user numbers at Carm and Aber as I said before.

If it's so passengers don't need to change from Cardigan to/from Aber, then fine and that's all very laudable. However, in a world of local authority cuts and the like, there are many more instances that would provide greater benefits. How about those routes that don't currently enjoy an hourly frequency?

That is without the potential legal challenge from running a supported service over a commercial corridor. Given all that, it really isn't surprising that they're not focussing on solving a problem that has very limited benefit, soaks up valuable cash and might lead to a legal dispute.

 

[anthony263]

Heard today that First Cymru have been awarded a contract by the Vale of Glamorgan council to operate a frequent express service between Cardiff and Cardiff Airport.

This service is expected to use the 5 Optare Tempo's that were originally ordered for service TC1 Aberystwyth - Carmarthen - Cardiff.

As I am not working for First Cymru I will be keeping a listen out for the launch date for this new service