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Trawscymru Service News

Starmill

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Hi all

Does anyone have any further news or details regarding the sad recent announcement from Llew Jones that route T19 is being withdrawn?

Unfortunately, Llew Jones Coaches have announced that they will no longer operate the TrawsCymru T19 service which runs between Blaenau Ffestiniog and Llandudno with effect from Saturday 11 February 2023. In a statement, the company said a huge reduction in passenger numbers since the pandemic had made the service financially unviable.

Transport for Wales is working closely with Welsh Government and the local authorities in the area to identify and develop solutions to support passengers particularly between Blaenau Ffestiniog and Llanrwst.

There are several alternative services by bus and rail in the Conwy Valley and more information can be found here.

Cheers
 
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Starmill

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T19 is dead but Llew Jones have started a X19 service which provides an alternative ( but limited ) service. Timetable attached ( hopefully!) https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=5750444451738618&set=p.5750444451738618&type=3 Edit "very very limited"

Thank you very much. It would appear that today was in fact the final day of service on the T19. Route 19 appears to be continuing alongside this rather limited X19. Grateful for any further comments or insights locally.
 

Llandudno

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2 journeys numbered X19 operating direct via A470 but only operating between Llandudno and .
NO service to/from Blaenau.

When the X19 runs via the A470 it leaves a three hour gap in service in the middle of the day on route 19 via Conwy and Trefiew a section of route that actually carries passengers - bizarre!
 

WAB

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Deep concern at Wales ‘skeleton’ bus service threat
The Coach and Bus Association Cymru (CaBAC) is “deeply concerned” at the lack of clarity on future bus service provision in Wales beyond the recently announced three-month extension to the Bus Emergency Scheme (BES) and the resulting prospect of a “skeleton” service level.

Its worries centre on both that lack of long-term outlook and what the trade body says is a potentially disastrous round of service cuts from July if no further support is forthcoming at that point.

Those concerns were furthered on 15 February by Deputy Minister for Climate Change Lee Waters. In well-publicised remarks, Mr Waters told the Senedd that beyond the planned end of BES on 30 June, there could be a “skeleton” level of bus service provision that will lead up to planned reregulation in Wales, which is expected to begin no earlier than 2025.

That leaves what Mr Waters describes as “a bridging problem.” He adds that the Welsh Government would “desperately” like to fund buses “properly” during that period, but that options for doing so are currently limited.

It is not clear how delivery of franchising will be financially possible against that landscape. Mr Waters adds a hope that the UK government will allocate more funding to transport, which would bring with it a consequential increase in budgets for the devolved nations.
 

Woolos 22

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here is the link of a press release that tfw has put out on the T1 sevice between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth

Transport for Wales (TfW) has announced First Cymru has successfully tendered to operate the TrawsCymru T1 route.

First Cymru will be showcasing their fleet at Carmarthen Guildhall Square between 9.30am and 1pm on Tuesday 21 February and also the following day, Wednesday 22, at Aberystwyth Bus Station between 10am and 1pm and then Lampeter High Street between 2.30 and 4.30pm. 

The fleet of modern electric buses will be introduced from 26 March on the TrawsCymru T1 route between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth and a new charging hub will open in Carmarthenshire with new facilities for drivers and the buses.

Supplied by Pelican, the new buses have been extensively tested for the terrain of Wales and will improve the customer experience offering comfortable seats, air conditioning, reading lights, tables and mobile phone charging sockets.

They are another step forward in improving the public transport network across Wales, encouraging people to travel more sustainably and help the Welsh Government reach their goals for zero emissions and fighting climate change.
 
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RELL6L

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here is the link of a press release that tfw has put out on the T1 sevice between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth
All very nice - is the service going to revert to a proper hourly service or will there still be gaps?

Seems extraordinary to spend money putting electric buses on a high-mileage rural route rather than city routes which cover fewer miles and stop for much more. Especially when a bit of spending elsewhere - eg the T19 - would be much more valuable. But please - let's not reopen Welsh politics here!
 

markymark2000

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Do First Cymru have a current depot for the service ?
I am sure there is a depot being built in Carmarthen for it near to the Park & Ride.

Here is an article with the details. It's dated Nov 2021 but it's the most recent one. I have deleted some of the article because it's just waffle. Full article linked below.
PLANS for an electric bus depot on the outskirts of Carmarthen have been unanimously approved.

Carmarthenshire Council’s planning committee endorsed a planning officer recommendation for the scheme at Carmarthen park and ride, Llysonnen Road. The new depot will have four charging points to power up eight new electric buses which will ply the Carmarthen-Aberystwyth route. They will replace the diesel buses which currently undertake the 48-mile journey, incorporating Lampeter. The depot and buses will be made available to the operator who is awarded the next contract to operate the service. The existing contract with First Cymru for the Traws Cymru T1 service is due to expire in autumn 2022.




In other news, the T1C has gone out on a short term, emergency tender. Not sure what has gone on here but contract is for 1st April - 2nd September 2023. Same timetable and seems to be the same specifications as the current service. I wonder if Adventure Travel has thrown it in or Mid Wales Transport has said that they can no longer run it on behalf of Adventure Travel.

Provision of Public Service route T1C Aberystwyth – Llandysul – Carmarthen – Cardiff for the period 1 April 2023 – 2nd September 2023.
 

DaveHarries

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In other news, the T1C has gone out on a short term, emergency tender. Not sure what has gone on here but contract is for 1st April - 2nd September 2023. Same timetable and seems to be the same specifications as the current service. I wonder if Adventure Travel has thrown it in or Mid Wales Transport has said that they can no longer run it on behalf of Adventure Travel.

The VOSA Bus Service registrations for today (28th February) include a short-notice cancellation by New Adventure Travel of the T1C between Aberystwyth and Cardiff wef 01st April.
Search via. https://www.vehicle-operator-licens...ch/find-registered-local-bus-services/browse/ for 28/02/2023.

Dave
 

Bwsbro

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GusB

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The direct link for the above cancellation is here:

Registration numberPG1079161/193
Licence NumberPG1079161
Variation number8
StatusCancelled
Service number.T1C
Service typeLimited Stop
Start pointAberystwyth
Finish pointCardiff
ViaAberaeron, Llandysul
Date received15 Feb 2023
Effective date01 Apr 2023
End date
Supported by subsidies?Yes
Local authorities covered by routeBridgend County Borough Council
Cardiff County Council
Carmarthenshire Council
Ceredigion County Council
Rhondda Cynon Taff Council
City & County of Swansea
Vale of Glamorgan Council
Neath Port Talbot Borough Council
TAOs covered by routeWales
 

markymark2000

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Currently on the T1C tender specs and there is some interesting news on the new contract. I hadn't noticed it before but they intend on making some changes.

The bus will now take 4h 10 each way so much longer than previously but there are some more stops.

The service will now serve Carmarthen Rail Station and will serve Carmarthen Bus Station (not Peacocks). It will also divert into Swansea Uni Bay Campus. This will be the same timetable daily as well so no longer serving Swansea Bus Station on Sundays. Full timetable is in the photo below.


Other interesting things with the T1C is that despite it only being a 6 month contract, they are forcing the operators to buy uniform for each of the drivers (at a cost of over £200 per driver). What a waste of taxpayers money, demanding drivers wear the dedicated uniform for such a short contract. Given the route is daily, that's a good few drivers so extra cost on the tender for a 6 month contract. Longer term contracts the investment makes sense but for 6 months, really?

I can't link the source as it's the tender specifications which can't be accessed without creating accounts and signing up.
 

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markymark2000

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Quality is important. I've already criticised the T19 for not being branded.
Same can be said for most of the routes though. The routes which seem to have the best compliance are the T1 and T5. The rest all have none branded buses out. The T2 today has no TrawsCymru buses out. T3 can vary, sometimes it's good but then the dreaded solo makes an appearance. T4/T14 always has some normal Stagecoach buses out.

Shouldn't carry the Traws brand if the full package isn't there.
The vehicle will be TrawsCymru logos (not full livery but the specific uniform shouldn't make a difference on such a short contract. Anything over a year makes sense for demanding uniform but such a short contract, at which point, the operator could never run the route again and everything was just a waste of money.

And misses the last T2 northbound by 20 minutes as a result...
I hope that is something that Lloyds bring up with the top of the range, 100% know what they are doing, TrawsCymru Service Delivery Board.
 

Markdvdman

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Currently on the T1C tender specs and there is some interesting news on the new contract. I hadn't noticed it before but they intend on making some changes.

The bus will now take 4h 10 each way so much longer than previously but there are some more stops.

The service will now serve Carmarthen Rail Station and will serve Carmarthen Bus Station (not Peacocks). It will also divert into Swansea Uni Bay Campus. This will be the same timetable daily as well so no longer serving Swansea Bus Station on Sundays. Full timetable is in the photo below.


Other interesting things with the T1C is that despite it only being a 6 month contract, they are forcing the operators to buy uniform for each of the drivers (at a cost of over £200 per driver). What a waste of taxpayers money, demanding drivers wear the dedicated uniform for such a short contract. Given the route is daily, that's a good few drivers so extra cost on the tender for a 6 month contract. Longer term contracts the investment makes sense but for 6 months, really?

I can't link the source as it's the tender specifications which can't be accessed without creating accounts and signing up.
Well that timetable is even worse leaving Cardiff at 5:10pm every day as opposed to 4:45pm Monday to Saturday. I use it sometimes to go to Cross Hands but a timetabled arrival of 6:58pm on a Friday would likely mean even later due to traffic. Looks like they are trying to kill this service as I shall not use it when the timetable goes that way!
 

Bletchleyite

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Well that timetable is even worse leaving Cardiff at 5:10pm every day as opposed to 4:45pm Monday to Saturday. I use it sometimes to go to Cross Hands but a timetabled arrival of 6:58pm on a Friday would likely mean even later due to traffic. Looks like they are trying to kill this service as I shall not use it when the timetable goes that way!

5:10 will surely be more use, as some people finish work at 5?
 

Markdvdman

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5:10 will surely be more use, as some people finish work at 5?
That is subjective as to who is using it on a particular day. I finish earlier on a Friday so a long time to hang about especially if poor weather (will not be so bad when the bus station opens). However, it used to run at 4:10pm back in the day and many complained then! I suppose they are trying to standardise it. would rather take the train and/or Netional Express than those times personally!
 

burns20

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Same can be said for most of the routes though. The routes which seem to have the best compliance are the T1 and T5. The rest all have none branded buses out. The T2 today has no TrawsCymru buses out. T3 can vary, sometimes it's good but then the dreaded solo makes an appearance. T4/T14 always has some normal Stagecoach buses out.
The T2 has had to have white leased buses provided as the original vehicles are life expired as the contract has been rolling over since pre-covid awaiting the future contracts for the T2 and T22 to be released
 

markymark2000

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The T2 has had to have white leased buses provided as the original vehicles are life expired as the contract has been rolling over since pre-covid awaiting the future contracts for the T2 and T22 to be released
The Metrocities are life expired already? They're not that old.

Is there any light at the end of the tunnel for the new T2 and T22 contracts? Personally I think the T22 is a completely stupid route which should never see the light of day with how it's being proposed but that's just my opinion. The long way around for zero benefit.
 

burns20

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The Metrocities are life expired already? They're not that old.

Is there any light at the end of the tunnel for the new T2 and T22 contracts? Personally I think the T22 is a completely stupid route which should never see the light of day with how it's being proposed but that's just my opinion. The long way around for zero benefit.
They weren't designed to do the miles on heavy demanding interurban routes up hill and down dale.

My personal opinion is that the T22 should've been Llandudno-Blaenau-Port-Criccieth-Caernarfon every 2 hours Llandudno to Blaenau express and every hour Blaenau to Caernarfon

Gwynfor S1 should be extended by Llew Jones 19 to Conwy and Llandudno to give a Llandudno-Snowdon link
 

markymark2000

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They weren't designed to do the miles on heavy demanding interurban routes up hill and down dale.
True. Are they in that bad of a state though given that there are many demanding routes that can keep buses longer than 8 years.

My personal opinion is that the T22 should've been Llandudno-Blaenau-Port-Criccieth-Caernarfon every 2 hours Llandudno to Blaenau express and every hour Blaenau to Caernarfon

Gwynfor S1 should be extended by Llew Jones 19 to Conwy and Llandudno to give a Llandudno-Snowdon link
I don't think the T22 should be linking Caernarfon to Blaenau via Port at all. A big useless U which hardly anyone will use. I don't really think that Cricceth will have that much demand either heading to anywhere but Pwllheli and Port (which the 3 covers quite well. Albeit, I would like to see improvements to the 3, that's another story though) Having a standard hourly T2 would in my opinion be significantly more helpful to people (including those in Criccieth).

I do like the idea of Llandudno - Port though via Blaenau. It's an interesting one, not sure how busy it would be though given the T19 clearly wasn't that busy. 100% and bus must run 'through' Blaenau though as terminating buses there was useless. There were connecting passengers between the buses and basically waiting in the middle of nowhere for a bus to take you the rest of the way. I did that twice and it never felt like it was a smooth connection.
 

Bletchleyite

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I do like the idea of Llandudno - Port though via Blaenau. It's an interesting one, not sure how busy it would be though given the T19 clearly wasn't that busy. 100% and bus must run 'through' Blaenau though as terminating buses there was useless. There were connecting passengers between the buses and basically waiting in the middle of nowhere for a bus to take you the rest of the way. I did that twice and it never felt like it was a smooth connection.

What I'd like to see there (unsurprisingly) is a proper co-ordination of bus and rail on the Blaenau corridor, with the same fares charged on both and interavailable both ways. Though it may also be possible in time to increase the rail frequency once everything is 197s on the Coast - the issue in the past was that it needed dedicated units because 197s aren't cleared, and two dedicated units costs twice as much as one, whereas it might be possible to do an extra Betws run, say, in marginal time with a unit sat at the Junction. If you did that, then a connecting bus from Blaenau to Port timed to meet the train would make more sense - the setup there is well designed for integration with a mini bus station by the railway station.
 
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Baxenden Bank

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What I'd like to see there (unsurprisingly) is a proper co-ordination of bus and rail on the Blaenau corridor, with the same fares charged on both and interavailable both ways. Though it may also be possible in time to increase the rail frequency once everything is 197s on the Coast - the issue in the past was that it needed dedicated units because 197s aren't cleared, and two dedicated units costs twice as much as one, whereas it might be possible to do an extra Betws run, say, in marginal time with a unit sat at the Junction. If you did that, then a connecting bus from Blaenau to Port timed to meet the train would make more sense - the setup there is well designed for integration with a mini bus station by the railway station.
In the draft timetable issued for consultation by TfW, a unit from Liverpool sits in Llandudno for 55 minutes most hours (xx42 to xx37). Sometimes it fits in a round trip to the junction and back, when that doesn't co-incide with one of the Blaenau Ffestiniog services. Those remain as per the current one train working. I'm sure something could be done to achieve better utilisation of those unit layovers.
 

Russel

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Has anything been put in place in regards to a replacement for the T19 or are we just left with the 19 and Conwy Valley line between Llandudno - Betws Y Coed now?
 

markymark2000

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Has anything been put in place in regards to a replacement for the T19 or are we just left with the 19 and Conwy Valley line between Llandudno - Betws Y Coed now?
Just left with the 19. Llew Jones put in bids to Conwy Council for the school contracts and said 'award us these school contracts and we will keep the T19 running' and Conwy Council chose to award them to other bidders. Llew Jones did their sums and works out that Conwy council is now spending an additional £30,000 more than had they awarded Llew Jones the contracts (and consequently kept the T19 running)


Llew Jones Statement:
Termination of T19 Bus Service
Despite our concerted efforts to find a workable solution which would ensure the continued operation of the T19 bus service, we have been unable to raise any support from Conwy Borough Council, Trawscymru, Welsh Government, or Gwynedd Council.

It is with the deepest regret that this means we have no option but to confirm that the T19 service connecting Blaenau Ffestiniog and Llandudno will cease operation 11th February 2023 as previously advised.
Llew Jones International, as a family owned and run business, has served the people of the Conwy valley for 50 years and counting. Our commitment to the public in the area is the main reason why we have invested heavily in developing the T19 service to support local people and visitors alike. We feel that it is important that people understand the efforts we have made to maintain services for them.
For many years the business has sought ways to improve the exposure of the T19 service and to generate support from local councils and government - given their responsibility to ensure availability of accessible local public transport and commitment to sustainability.

We realise that there is a considerable effort in local government to increase the number of passengers on local trains, but they are of limited use unless you happen to live near a station or have pockets deep enough to pay for tickets which are often double the cost of bus journeys.

Traws Cymru had provided a vehicle in their livery to use on the route (free of cost to Llew Jones) which, whilst worthwhile in theory, was end of life when we received it, required significant investment on our part to make it usable, requires costly regular maintenance (at our cost) and uses huge amounts of fuel. The situation is so poor that we have resorted to running a bus of our own on the route; however, we do not get paid for doing so.
Furthermore, a project between Gwynedd Council and Transport for Wales saw the investment of over £1 million of taxpayer’s money in three electric buses which were promised to Llew Jones to support the development of a multi vehicle zero emission T19 service.

Disappointingly, the project collapsed when Gwynedd Council were unable to secure planning for an electric terminus on their own land in Tan Y Grisiau. Despite Llew Jones efforts to provide alternative sites for the charging station, the electric buses were never delivered to us and thus far remain unused despite their enormous cost to the public purse.
Gwynedd Council have not engaged with Llew Jones in any form since we announced the termination of the T19 service despite many students using the bus daily. It is our understanding that this is because they would rather the young people in Blaenau be educated locally, however, this misses the obvious need of the wider public to move around and that there is now no way for tourists to travel up the valley to the area.
Conwy Borough Council integrated some school transport onto the T19 service, and this commenced around four years ago. However, despite repeated requests, they have been unwilling to increase the rate paid since the service started – despite our operating costs increasing by over 45% over the same time.
When we were compelled to terminate the T19, Conwy Borough Council issued two “closed door school transport” contracts to support the movement of the pupils. Llew Jones submitted bids for the contracts and had planned to use the revenues, if successful, to secure the T19 service in some format. Unfortunately, we were not successful though we have yet to be told formally who did win.
We provided an alternative to the “closed door school transport” contracts directly to Conwy Borough Council and whilst we do not have the exact figures that have been agreed for the new student transport, we highlighted that our option would provide significant savings over the agreements they had made.
The solution we suggested, is that by CBC simply increasing the amount per pupil they were paying Llew Jones by the same amount as our operating costs have risen, that would provide sufficient subsidy to continue to operate the T19 service, albeit in a slightly modified timetable. The reduced timetable and increased pupil subsidy offsetting the reduction in fares.
Our solution would have been significantly more cost effective than the “closed door school transport” that had been tendered. In fact, we believe the savings could be in the region of £33,426 annually to CBC – with the added benefit of maintaining a much-needed T19 public service.
There is also a requirement under the transport Act 1958 which states that where a commercial service is operated, and educational pupils can be transported at a lower cost by using that service, then the obligation to the local authority is to use that already available resource and by doing this improving the viability of the commercial service and providing much better transport options for the public.
Despite our solution providing the potential for real savings, and our commitment to continue the T19 service without interruption should the council agree, we have been informed that they will continue with the award of the “closed door school transport” contracts and so we have no choice but to continue with the termination of the T19 service.
It is shocking that in the face of the considerable public support, and efforts by a Welsh Assembly Member, Conwy Borough Council made no attempt to meet, discuss or otherwise engage with Llew Jones beyond a single, minutes long telephone conversation, with one councillor - despite being offered a workable solution to reduce school transport costs and maintain the T19 service.
For the benefit of the public, and now that the fate of the T19 is sealed, Llew Jones has chosen to create a number of additional express routes as per the attached timetable. These will operate as 19X service and operate around the current 19 service. It is not a replacement for the T19 and, unfortunately, it is significantly less than was offered to CBC as part of our solution.
Llew Jones would like to thank the people of the Conwy valley and surrounding area for their continued support, our drivers for their hard work in providing the service day to day, and the many visitors to the area who have rung from every end of the country to enquire and offer their thoughts
 

Llandudno

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Just left with the 19. Llew Jones put in bids to Conwy Council for the school contracts and said 'award us these school contracts and we will keep the T19 running' and Conwy Council chose to award them to other bidders. Llew Jones did their sums and works out that Conwy council is now spending an additional £30,000 more than had they awarded Llew Jones the contracts (and consequently kept the T19 running)


Llew Jones Statement:
The same Conwy Council who are just increasing council tax by 9.9% (the highest in Wales) because they can’t balance the books….!
 

WAB

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Just left with the 19. Llew Jones put in bids to Conwy Council for the school contracts and said 'award us these school contracts and we will keep the T19 running' and Conwy Council chose to award them to other bidders. Llew Jones did their sums and works out that Conwy council is now spending an additional £30,000 more than had they awarded Llew Jones the contracts (and consequently kept the T19 running)
Doesn't bode well for public control of buses in Wales...
 

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