trentbarton discussion

[Andy Pacer]

Sixes Versa 841 looks to have been rebuilt and came back into service yesterday (Friday).


Blink? Sounds like if you blink, some miss it .

It's actually quite good, but for "internal" comms.

 

[derbybusdepot]

I'm sure Arriva customers will value having a service from Derby Bus Station to Royal hospital. Its a very busy stop. Which extra stops are arriva adding?

Every 15 minutes seems a bit illogical from Trent. It's a lot of extra cost and for what gain? Every 20 from bus station would have been more logical.

 

[joieman]

Every 15 minutes seems a bit illogical from Trent. It's a lot of extra cost and for what gain? Every 20 from bus station would have been more logical.

I think it's merely a retaliatory action by Trentbarton against Arriva by trying to milk passengers from them with an increased frequency.

The question is, if one company were to quit running the X38, which would it be? Although Trentbarton also run the Villager and V3, they both run along the same Derby to Burton corridor, neither company has any other routes within the Burton area.

 

[olliethe153]

The question is, if one company were to quit running the X38, which would it be?

From an outsider perspective (someone who doesn't particularly know the ins and outs of management of each company) it seems like Trent would be the more likely to pull out.

Arriva is a national corporation, so surely they would have more resources and funds to keep running the service? Trent have had issues regarding bus driver shortages, maintenance backlogs and, although not exclusive to them, rising fuel prices. Though, that being said, I am not as invested in the Arriva scene or use their services often at all, so what is actually happening with them I have no idea. Didn't they cease providing services in the Warrington area?

From a user perspective and as someone who has the (mis)fortune in having to go to Burton frequently, it would be a shame to see Trent go, as I for one much prefer their buses. Sure, the branding aspect of the route is nice to look at and all, but 98% of the time I find the drivers way less miserable and the buses themselves, regardless if it's a B7 or a Solo, always cleaner. Something about the interior of Arriva buses makes me feel unpleasant.

 

[Trainman40083]

I'm sure Arriva customers will value having a service from Derby Bus Station to Royal hospital. Its a very busy stop. Which extra stops are arriva adding?

Every 15 minutes seems a bit illogical from Trent. It's a lot of extra cost and for what gain? Every 20 from bus station would have been more logical.

If Royal Hospital is a legitimate setting down point for X38, some passengers might opt for said X38

 

[Deerfold]

Presumably they'll have to give the Traffic Commissioner a good reason as to why they've left it so late to register it.

From an outsider perspective (someone who doesn't particularly know the ins and outs of management of each company) it seems like Trent would be the more likely to pull out.

Arriva is a national corporation, so surely they would have more resources and funds to keep running the service? Trent have had issues regarding bus driver shortages, maintenance backlogs and, although not exclusive to them, rising fuel prices. Though, that being said, I am not as invested in the Arriva scene or use their services often at all, so what is actually happening with them I have no idea. Didn't they cease providing services in the Warrington area?

Arriva withdrew from Warrington and Crewe a couple of years ago.

Just s couple of weeks ago they closed their High Wycombe and Aylesbury depots completely
Previously they ran about half the buses in High Wycombe.

 

[Trainman40083]

Presumably they'll have to give the Traffic Commissioner a good reason as to why they've left it so late to register it.


Arriva withdrew from Warrington and Crewe a couple of years ago.

Just s couple of weeks ago they closed their High Wycombe and Aylesbury depots completely
Previously they ran about half the buses in High Wycombe.

Re the TC issue. I didn't know operators could "bend the rules".

 

[Robertj21a]

Odd that Trent can operate a revised X38 at x15 frequency. They couldn't even regularly put out just their 2 buses on X38, leaving Arriva to cater for most passengers. How are Trent suddenly able to allocate 5-6 buses when previously they couldn't run just 2 ?

 

[bringiton]

Odd that Trent can operate a revised X38 at x15 frequency. They couldn't even regularly put out just their 2 buses on X38, leaving Arriva to cater for most passengers. How are Trent suddenly able to allocate 5-6 buses when previously they couldn't run just 2 ?

They have new mmcs freeing up a lot of vehicles to be able to put extra on x38. Lucky really with their timing of ordering new vehicles (to receiving them and being able to rebrand the older displaced vehicles) with arriva changing their timetable.

 

[derbybusdepot]

Odd that Trent can operate a revised X38 at x15 frequency. They couldn't even regularly put out just their 2 buses on X38, leaving Arriva to cater for most passengers. How are Trent suddenly able to allocate 5-6 buses when previously they couldn't run just 2 ?

Personally I think they are trying to operate too many buses. They struggle to put out a full service most days, operating more and more will just make the issue worse. Even new buses need maintenance.

 

[tram21]

Personally I think they are trying to operate too many buses. They struggle to put out a full service most days, operating more and more will just make the issue worse. Even new buses need maintenance.

Would reintroducing the Spondon Flyer not be much more appreciated and needed than just competing with Arriva for the sake of it?

 

[bringiton]

Would reintroducing the Spondon Flyer not be much more appreciated and needed than just competing with Arriva for the sake of it?

They clearly think keeping x38 would be beneficial for them (passenger number wise and financially). Spondon has ilkeston flyer going through there every 10 minutes so i doubt there would be the passenger numbers to have Spondon flyer as well.

As well with trentbarton going from corporation street and arriva going from the bus station it gives them both a stop where they aren't competing for passengers. I know i would rather walk to corporation street than go down to victoria street and be greeted by possibly an arriva bus if i was aiming for a trentbarton ran one

 

[richardderby]

The new timetable is on bus times, Trent depart a few minutes after arriva, so they will probably not do very well out of this..

 

[bringiton]

The new timetable is on bus times, Trent depart a few minutes after arriva, so they will probably not do very well out of this..

No, trentbarton haven't put in the new timetable yet so it's only got arrivas updated one

 

[Andyh82]

Would reintroducing the Spondon Flyer not be much more appreciated and needed than just competing with Arriva for the sake of it?

Wouldn’t Arriva be better deploying their buses elsewhere instead of competing with Trent Barton for the sake of it?

It’s funny how this thread always comes down on the side against Trent Barton on every issue whether it is increasing a service or decreasing a service

 

[tram21]

Wouldn’t Arriva be better deploying their buses elsewhere instead of competing with Trent Barton for the sake of it?

It’s funny how this thread always comes down on the side against Trent Barton on every issue whether it is increasing a service or decreasing a service

Arriva were the first to make the change, and obviously see potential in increasing and changing the service. Trentbarton may do too, but they have clearly done it in retaliation to Arriva's changes

 

[Travelmonkey]

It is a interesting time, although given the amount of traffic in Burton timetables are barley kept too. As a ENCT holder its gonna be more get whatever X38 comes first,

As for the Ilkeston flyer yes it serves Spondon but I've had the argument many times some parts of the village are a bit far from its stops although if it the Spondon Flyer was used more in the first place it may have survived the cull, now there is a noisy minority begging for it back.

Time will tell if Trent are Barking up the wrong tree and the X38 is probably better suited to the Bus competition thread,

 

[tram21]

Time will tell if Trent are Barking up the wrong tree and the X38 is probably better suited to the Bus competition thread,

Is direct competition actually allowed by the Traffic Commissioner?

 

[bringiton]

As for the Ilkeston flyer yes it serves Spondon but I've had the argument many times some parts of the village are a bit far from its stops although if it the Spondon Flyer was used more in the first place it may have survived the cull, now there is a noisy minority begging for it back.

Yeah i guess. Maybe on an hourly basis or something it could work.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Wouldn’t Arriva be better deploying their buses elsewhere instead of competing with Trent Barton for the sake of it?

It’s funny how this thread always comes down on the side against Trent Barton on every issue whether it is increasing a service or decreasing a service

Well, indeed. @Robertj21a makes a fair comment that TrentBarton has been pretty variable on the X38.

However, Arriva has taken the decision to unilaterally try and corner the market. Now TB could either respond, or they could meekly accept their fate AND, having done that, sent out a clear message to everyone else that you can simply park your tanks on their lawn.

Now @derbybusdepot suggests that they could've just gone every 20 mins from the bus station? Think about it.... do that and you have no competitive advantage if you do that. Go every 15 mins and you do, and you're able to have some stand time on Victoria Street.

Stuff about Spondon Flyer is an irrelevance. Whether there's competition on the X38 or not doesn't mean that the Spondon route will become viable. It's interesting as the SF was one of the great success stories of the 1990s. Whether it was demographics, ENCTS, or complacency that led to its demise, who can say.

 

[bringiton]

Now @derbybusdepot suggests that they could've just gone every 20 mins from the bus station? Think about it.... do that and you have no competitive advantage if you do that. Go every 15 mins and you do, and you're able to have some stand time on Victoria Street.

I do think trentbarton have gone the smart move with their response. Going from corporation street connects trent passengers from services 9.1, 9.3, h1 and allestree all terminating within that area during the day (others during early morning and late evening service). Also having the terminus on the route rather than diverting to the bus station which would take time.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I do think trentbarton have gone the smart move with their response. Going from corporation street connects trent passengers from services 9.1, 9.3, h1 and allestree all terminating within that area during the day (others during early morning and late evening service). Also having the terminus on the route rather than diverting to the bus station which would take time.

That was my point. I'm not certain that heading to the bus station is that much of a benefit overall, so having more stand time on a city centre street (assuming it's still Victoria Street) makes a bit of sense.

Just the latest in the interesting history of bus services between Derby and Burton/Swad

 

[SSmith2009]

Trentbarton should just walk away from the X38 and improve their other Derby to Burton routes.

Introduce a new V2 (Derby to Burton) to replace the Harlequin route through Heatherton every 30 mins then from Findern Interchange fast along the A38

Increase the V3 upto every 30 mins

Gives an increased core frequency between Derby and Burton of 6 buses an hour. (Currently upto 5)

A slight decreased frequency around Heatherton but allocating larger buses like Versas would work.

 

[WAB]

I can see why Trent wants to protect its territory. After all, it’s not like they can focus on other areas, particularly if an emboldened Arriva starts taking them on around Derby. Bearing in mind that Derby is one of Arriva’s stronger remaining opcos.

 

[bringiton]

I can see why Trent wants to protect its territory. After all, it’s not like they can focus on other areas, particularly if an emboldened Arriva starts taking them on around Derby. Bearing in mind that Derby is one of Arriva’s stronger remaining opcos.

I couldn't see arriva doing much more. If they bite off more than they can handle it might lead already loyal passengers to leave and find another service or switch to another mode of transport.

 

[joieman]

Trentbarton should just walk away from the X38 and improve their other Derby to Burton routes.

Introduce a new V2 (Derby to Burton) to replace the Harlequin route through Heatherton every 30 mins then from Findern Interchange fast along the A38

Increase the V3 upto every 30 mins

Gives an increased core frequency between Derby and Burton of 6 buses an hour. (Currently upto 5)

A slight decreased frequency around Heatherton but allocating larger buses like Versas would work.

Regarding the X38, one thing that I think really needs to happen is that a pair of bus stops should be placed outside the Toyota factory in Burnaston, as although the A38 road passes it (and therefore the X38 bus service), the Toyota factory is presently inaccessible by bus.

 

[derbybusdepot]

That was my point. I'm not certain that heading to the bus station is that much of a benefit overall, so having more stand time on a city centre street (assuming it's still Victoria Street) makes a bit of sense.

Just the latest in the interesting history of bus services between Derby and Burton/Swad

Are Trent not starting from Corporation Street? And Arriva from the bus station, so neither will have stand time at the current starting point - but both will stop at it. Passengers will have to choose which one to go for unless they wait in victoria street - if both went from the same place then X amount of people will get on the first to arrive.

I don't think it makes any difference whether it runs every 15 or every 20, which is why it's odd that Trent are putting so many buses on to the service.

Putting a 30 minute service on via Stretton would have been good enough, and cost alot less, aswell as enhancing their frequency through stretton.

Spondon flyer failed for a few reasons. The main road service was more frequent, converting chapel lane to one way made journey times longer, and in later stages Trent Barton ran it so poorly everyone gave up on it.

 

[station_road]

Regarding the X38, one thing that I think really needs to happen is that a pair of bus stops should be placed outside the Toyota factory in Burnaston, as although the A38 road passes it (and therefore the X38 bus service), the Toyota factory is presently inaccessible by bus m

While you might be able to create a bus layby in the current emergency service vehicle area on the northbound carriageway (which does have pedestrian access to Toyota), I doubt that it would be safe for buses to be pulling back out onto the road from there - and there is no obvious pedestrian access to the southbound carriageway

 

[joieman]

While you might be able to create a bus layby in the current emergency service vehicle area on the northbound carriageway (which does have pedestrian access to Toyota), I doubt that it would be safe for buses to be pulling back out onto the road from there - and there is no obvious pedestrian access to the southbound carriageway

I thought pulling out might be a bit problematic.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Trentbarton should just walk away from the X38 and improve their other Derby to Burton routes.

Introduce a new V2 (Derby to Burton) to replace the Harlequin route through Heatherton every 30 mins then from Findern Interchange fast along the A38

Increase the V3 upto every 30 mins

Gives an increased core frequency between Derby and Burton of 6 buses an hour. (Currently upto 5)

A slight decreased frequency around Heatherton but allocating larger buses like Versas would work.

That would make no sense. They would be sacrificing their place on the X38 (and what message does that send out).

The V2 would be slower than the X38 so not certain what role that would serve, and not certain why the V3 would justify being half hourly either.

Are Trent not starting from Corporation Street? And Arriva from the bus station, so neither will have stand time at the current starting point - but both will stop at it. Passengers will have to choose which one to go for unless they wait in victoria street - if both went from the same place then X amount of people will get on the first to arrive.

I don't think it makes any difference whether it runs every 15 or every 20, which is why it's odd that Trent are putting so many buses on to the service.

I had seen Victoria Street and Corporation Street so confess I was a bit unclear.

Clearly, the main difference between 15 and 20 mins is that you have 4 bph rather than your competitor with 3 bph