TRIVIA - “reversing loops”

[The exile]

Discussion of turned AVANTI sets elsewhere set me thinking - is Newcastle the only place on NR where an all-stations stopper can “do the loop” and return whence it came without missing any stops in either direction (and without the driver “leaving their seat”)?

 

[swidnod]

The Cathcart Circle
Dalmuir services via Hamilton and Bellshill
Wirral Line via Liverpool Central
Thameslink services via Sutton Loop
Hounslow Loop services

I'm sure there are may be many more!!!

 

[Western Sunset]

I thought the OP meant without missing any intermediate stations. That narrows it down a lot.

 

[swt_passenger]

Discussion of turned AVANTI sets elsewhere set me thinking - is Newcastle the only place on NR where an all-stations stopper can “do the loop” and return whence it came without missing any stops in either direction (and without the driver “leaving their seat”)?

If approaching from Durham, Hexham, or Sunderland, then yes it acts a bit like a roundabout. However the fourth connection, ie stopping trains from Morpeth or Ashington, cannot return by looping round. I think the missing move requires demolition of the castle, and would have been a step too far even for Victorian railway builders.

 

[Topological]

Through Manchester using Ordsall Chord, works for anywhere with approaches via Stalybridge (either via Ashton or Phillips Park) and Ashburys (via Phillips Park). Presumes the trains would not have been serving Ardwick.

Im not sure if this also allows any service from Stockport?

I am not aware of a chord that allows approaches from Rochdale, Salford or the CLC to reverse.

 

[jfollows]

Im not sure if this also allows any service from Stockport?

Yes, you can go from Victoria to Ashton Moss to Denton and back to Stockport.

 

[Topological]

Yes, you can go from Victoria to Ashton Moss to Denton and back to Stockport.

Thanks. That adds a lot more services (lack of electrification notwithstanding) to the Manchester reversing loop list.

 

[liamf656]

It doesn't happen regularly, but it's possible to run from the south into Sheffield and back south without reversing, by using the Beighton diversion.

One daily instance of this is 1F00 (via Beighton) which forms 1C20 (via Dore) and the driver doesn't have to leave their seat!

 

[swt_passenger]

I thought the OP meant without missing any intermediate stations. That narrows it down a lot.

I think you‘re right with that interpretation. The recent replies, eg about the Ordsall Chord, are not what the OP is asking for.

 

[The exile]

Yes, you can go from Victoria to Ashton Moss to Denton and back to Stockport.

But there is more than one station on the loop so a simple journey between any two stations is not possible. For example on any train looping via Castlefield you could do Man Picc - Oxford Road but not Oxford Road to Man Picc. It is only possible to fulfil my “requirement” if there is only 1 station on the loop section (or none, of course). It doesn’t have to be possible from all directions (as had been pointed out, Newcastle only works from the south) I’ve subsequently realised that it can be done at Bristol from the South West.

It doesn't happen regularly, but it's possible to run from the south into Sheffield and back south without reversing, by using the Beighton diversion.

One daily instance of this is 1F00 (via Beighton) which forms 1C20 (via Dore) and the driver doesn't have to leave their seat!

Darnell station renders that one invalid “all stations stopper”

 

[Topological]

My apologies.

I thought this meant that a train that stopped at Stalybridge and terminated at Manchester Piccadilly before forming another train which left Piccadilly to stop next at Stalybridge could get from Stalybridge to Piccadilly and back to Stalybridge without missing any of its booked stops.

@jfollows addition would then allow any Stockport services to loop round, serve Piccadilly and then get back to Stockport without missing any scheduled stops.

Clearly the requirement is more niche.

 

[liamf656]

Darnell station renders that one invalid “all stations stopper”

Ah I understand now, I can't actually think of anywhere in the UK that has such a layout. Maybe some of our well-travelled members can shed some light on worldwide locations?

 

[Topological]

So in this case the Edinburgh sub fails because of the need to stop at Haymarket in both directions? Use of the Edinburgh sub only serves Haymarket in one direction.

 

[Kite159]

Could you add the Rugeley - Birmingham 'loop' in the days of DMUs on the Chase at times the inbound would run into Birmingham New Street via Aston, terminate and then form a service back towards Rugeley going via Soho.

Likewise in the past there has been a Worcester - Birmingham service which arrived into New Street via the Camp Hill line and form a service back towards Worcester without the driver moving from their seat?

 

[Harpo]

At Birmingham New Street from any of Kings Norton, Stetchford, Smethwick or Bescot.

At Stratford from the Lea/Lee Valley.

 

[The exile]

So in this case the Edinburgh sub fails because of the need to stop at Haymarket in both directions? Use of the Edinburgh sub only serves Haymarket in one direction.

Exactly

At Birmingham New Street from any of Kings Norton, Stetchford, Smethwick or Bescot.

At Stratford from the Lea/Lee Valley.

None of the Birmingham ones makes the cut as you have to pass through (stop at!) more than one station in one direction only. I think Stratford from Lea Bridge used to be possible - is it still?

Could you add the Rugeley - Birmingham 'loop' in the days of DMUs on the Chase at times the inbound would run into Birmingham New Street via Aston, terminate and then form a service back towards Rugeley going via Soho.

Likewise in the past there has been a Worcester - Birmingham service which arrived into New Street via the Camp Hill line and form a service back towards Worcester without the driver moving from their seat?

“All station stopper” was a criterion and you can’t stop at Duddestin, Aston and Wilton in both directions - so no, I’m afraid.

Ah I understand now, I can't actually think of anywhere in the UK that has such a layout. Maybe some of our well-travelled members can shed some light on worldwide locations?

We have 3 so far: anything approaching Newcastle from the south / west and anything approaching Bristol TM from (ironically) the south-west. Then anything approaching Stratford via Lea Bridge.

 

[brad465]

Does using the Ely avoiding line work in this? Is it possible to come from March and use it to return to March?

 

[The exile]

Does using the Ely avoiding line work in this? Is it possible to come from March and use it to return to March?

Looks like it. 4! The only one so far with no stations on the loop bit.

 

[Kneedown]

Ah I understand now, I can't actually think of anywhere in the UK that has such a layout. Maybe some of our well-travelled members can shed some light on worldwide locations?

As does Woodhouse and Dronfield.
On the plus side, I'm working 1F00 tomorrow. Not a bad little diagram!

 

[Western Sunset]

Used to be able to do it at Trent station, back in the day, via the North Curve...
Just thought of another available until the late 60s too: Spondon- Chaddesden - Derby station - Way & Works - Spondon

 

[AJDesiro]

Could a train be turned around on the Oxley Chord?

 

[plugwash]

@jfollows addition would then allow any Stockport services to loop round, serve Piccadilly and then get back to Stockport without missing any scheduled stops.

jfollows route misses heaton chapel and levenshulme, where some but not all services from stockport stop.

 

[jfollows]

jfollows route misses heaton chapel and levenshulme, where some but not all services from stockport stop.

Yes, all I was saying is that it’s possible to loop round from Stockport via Ordsall Chord and Denton back to Stockport, nothing to do with the original poster’s requirements.

 

[D6130]

Ah I understand now, I can't actually think of anywhere in the UK that has such a layout. Maybe some of our well-travelled members can shed some light on worldwide locations?

One location here in Italy which comes to mind is Pisa Centrale, which can be approached from the Livorno direction by two different routes entering the station either from the East or West end. However I'm not sure that there are any services that actually "loop the loop".

 

[DelW]

I'm not sure that I've fully understood the criteria, but there's a one-way-only loop clockwise to the west of Hull using the Down Walton Street Goods line. Does the loop have to have passenger services over it to count?

 

[The exile]

I'm not sure that I've fully understood the criteria, but there's a one-way-only loop clockwise to the west of Hull using the Down Walton Street Goods line. Does the loop have to have passenger services over it to count?

That looks as if it fits the bill, so we’re now up to 5 - far more than I expected

 

[stuu]

Temple Meads via St Philips Marsh, not that anything ever would go that way. And Stratford from the Lea Valley

 

[duffield]

I might have found one more, at Felixstow. There's a loop through the docks, however from my track atlas, it looks like you'd have to pass through Trimley's single platform in one direction but not the other, which would presumably disqualify it - but in fact there appears from the satellite view to be a crossover just south-east of Trimley from the non-platform line, which would allow you to avoid Trimley's platform in both directions, so I think that means it actually qualifies as a "no stations on the loop" version.

 

[DelW]

I might have found one more, at Felixstow. There's a loop through the docks, however from my track atlas, it looks like you'd have to pass through Trimley's single platform in one direction but not the other, which would presumably disqualify it - but in fact there appears from the satellite view to be a crossover just south-east of Trimley from the non-platform line, which would allow you to avoid Trimley's platform in both directions, so I think that means it actually qualifies as a "no stations on the loop" version.

Are the docks National Rail lines, though, or do they belong to the port's owner?

Including industrial sites might allow any surviving MGR loops at power stations to be counted. They may all have been lifted by now though.

 

[Western Sunset]

As well as coal loops where MGR trains discharged their load and returned from whence they came, some power stations (eg Ratcliffe) had a dust loop for flyash trains.Think there was one at Fletton too.