Trivia - Bus Stop Oddities

[TheSel]

I was aware of this arrangement; I think I saw a picture of one of the South Wales FCY-W Bedfords working a local service during the day. Again, those are superb photographs so thank you for sharing.
...

Many Thanks. A less well known use of South Wales buses / coaches by Crosville occurred during the summers of 1973/4, when West Kirby provided a coach for the Saturdays only Liverpool - Swansea service. Because the crews - not the passengers - changed midway, this resulted in a Crosville (WK) coach spending a week in Swansea and a South Wales coach spending a week at West Kirby every other week. I've never seen shots of the Crosville coach(es) being used by South Wales. Crosville's usual vehicle would have been CRG27 (OFM27E) or CRG102 (AFM102G), the two West Kirby RELH6Gs, but there were a number of ECW bodied MW coaches (some downgraded to DP status) at West Kirby at the time.

In theory, the South Wales coach sat unused at West Kirby for the week. Please find a couple of shots of them below on what was then called "The New Road" (now part of Orrysdale Road), when the West Kirby Concourse was being built.

South Wales 166 (KCY212E)

again


South Wales 219 (PWN219M)

Again - with the signal box at West Kirby station just visible in the background for all the rail spotters!


In practice the coach tended to get used on the (closed) contract services that ran from various places on the Wirral to and from the Nuclear Energy plant at Capenhurst. But one day, West Kirby were so desperate for stock that South Wales ECW bodied MW 123 - 276ECY got used on a peak-hour F27, West Kirby - Birkenhead Woodside return. Crew operated, as it had no suitable omo equipment fitted. The Garage Foreman (here acting as Conductor) 'tipped me the wink', and I went for the ride.

South Wales 123 (276ECY) - with papers in the destination box and front windscreen to indicate this was service F27.


Sorry about the quality of these photos - I was only about 13 and had a lot to learn about the best angles and light for photography!

Thanks also for the United insight - really interesting. Fantastic shot of Leyburn with four buses together!

 

[Taunton]

Long ago the old Taunton to Sidmouth bus, every couple of hours, was jointly run by Western and Southern National from each end, and the buses used to stop to change crews wherever they met, out on the country roads. Just pull up almost nose-to-nose, and driver and conductor (told you it was long ago) change over, with a quick chat. Traffic behind, not a lot then, just had to wait.

I seem to remember that the timetable had, for the last journey of the day, a note C against the times at Honiton, just that journey, saying "passengers may have to change buses", presumably to get them back to base.

 

[Simon75]

The X30 Southend to Stansted (24 hrs, First Essex), one early morning journey says passengers need to change bus at Chelmsford if continuing to Stansted

 

[TheSel]

The X30 Southend to Stansted (24 hrs, First Essex), one early morning journey says passengers need to change bus at Chelmsford if continuing to Stansted

Not exactly convenient if you've got a week's luggage with you!

 

[Bookd]

Having checked today that it is still there there is an LT bus stop in a residential street in Lower Feltham.
Back in the day (Routemasters) this was a short working terminus for alternate journeys on the 117 and then 237. Buses departed continuing round a loop back to Chertsey Road.
This stop has not been used for many years, and the exit route has been blocked off by a gate for emergency vehicles only.
If a bus did turn up there the only way out would be a three point turn which is tight in a car.

 

[318266]

In Garelochhead, the 316 (jointly ran by Garelochhead Coaches and Wilson's of Rhu) goes up Feolin Way, around the roundabout, then straight back down. This causes an anomaly where at the bottom of the road there are bus stops right across from each other, both of which is served by every bus, in both directions!

 

[Tuppenny Tube]

Back in the early 70s I remember Crossville evening services planned so that either drivers swapped over and returned to their home depots or the passengers on both buses swapped and both turned round. These were always shown as through services in the timetable and on destination blinds.

This was quite common on many companies & in some cases lasted until deregulation.

Whilst on the subject of drivers swapping over, in the early eighties East Midland Motor services introduced a service X58 from Chesterfield to Macclesfield via Buxton & The Cat & Fiddle which, on Saturdays (and I think summer Sundays & maybe M-F schoolholidays) was extended to Chester via Knutsford, where it parked up for about 4 hours. What was unusual about this was that the East Midland driver never went to Chester, instead a Crosville driver from Macclesfield took over the East Midlands bus at Macclesfield and took it Chester, bringing it back later in the afternoon. The East Mids driver, on arrival at Macclesfield, would have a short break & then take a Crosville bus (normally a dual purpose national) back as an X58 to Chesterfield. This bus would return as an X58 to Macclesfield later in the afternoon in order to meet the incoming bus from Chester, which the East Mids driver would then take back to Chesterfield.
This produced 2 oddities for Crosville; firstly a driver working a full shift but never driving his own company's buses & secondly a bus being diagrammed but never having a Crosville driver.
I can also recall, on a couple of occasions, the Crosville bus being used on a Chesterfield local trip between its X58 journeys !

 

[geoffk]

Somebody else might be better acquainted with the current First Halifax situation, but when I was driving at the Todmorden garage (up to 2003) there were numerous reverses at termini (or calling points in some cases). In Todmorden itself, Longfield and Woodhouse Grove were on minibus routes but had been served by full-sized vehicles pre-deregulation, and are now served by TLC routes. Mankinholes was no longer required as it had been incorporated into a circular minibus service, but that had been a very tight fit with a sngle-decker. Worst of the lot was Cloughfoot on the very fast A681 towards Bacup, which by my time was only used by school buses, but caused me many a worrying moment.
The routes in Hebden Bridge included reverses at Blackshaw Head, Shore Road Top and Cragg Vale that were mostly minibus but with some full-size buses, while Old Town (then the hourly 593 from Halifax) was used by full size buses during the day. Some 593s also went via Crimsworth, so an additional reverse there! Down in the valley floor, Eaves and Fairfield were served by short minibus services from Hebden Bridge, the former being a fairly tight fit even in a Mercedes 709.
In later years we also ran a school service from Booth and Midgley to Calder High school which required a reverse at both of those settlements, and possibly another one on the afternoon trip if you met the service bus (574/5) in the wrong place .

Buses still reverse at Longfield, Cragg Vale, Booth and Midgley, all into a bay marked "buses only". The reversing bay at Old Town is redundant as the bus now does a circular route, Crimsworth has a turning area big enough for the minibus to turn, again marked "buses only". There may be other reversals in the Halifax area. However across the border in Greater Manchester, reversing is said to be "not allowed", I assume by Union agreement, and there are many more purpose-built turning circles. Perhaps also the NW Traffic Commissioner was less accommodating than his/her Yorkshire counterpart. As a result, crew operation was retained for as long as the route required a reversal, e.g. at Higher Disley and Moor End, Mellor, both routes now abandoned I believe.

 

[Whisky Papa]

Buses still reverse at Longfield, Cragg Vale, Booth and Midgley, all into a bay marked "buses only". The reversing bay at Old Town is redundant as the bus now does a circular route, Crimsworth has a turning area big enough for the minibus to turn, again marked "buses only". There may be other reversals in the Halifax area. However across the border in Greater Manchester, reversing is said to be "not allowed", I assume by Union agreement, and there are many more purpose-built turning circles. Perhaps also the NW Traffic Commissioner was less accommodating than his/her Yorkshire counterpart. As a result, crew operation was retained for as long as the route required a reversal, e.g. at Higher Disley and Moor End, Mellor, both routes now abandoned I believe.

Blackshaw Head must also still be in use for TLC's 596, and in fact they seem to have added a further terminal point on that route at Smithwell Lane which I assume must be a reverse. They do also still use Eaves and Fairfield, allthough not as frequently as once happened.

You are spot on with the difference in attitude over the Pennines! The Union reps at Greater Manchester Transport were very much against reversing OPO vehicles. I was compiling schedules at Stockport prior to deregulation (1981-85), and in addition to the two points you mention above, there was also a reverse in Poynton at Lower Park Road (or Crescent?) and at North Park Road in Bramhall. These were mostly occasional extensions to or deviations from otherwise OPO services. The biggest pain was Corcoran Drive in Romiley, terminus of the 207 route from Manchester via Reddish. This along with the interworked 206 to Greave was the last all-day conductor (or guard) operated route from Stockport, but was eventually converted to OPO. Just prior to the start date, the T&GWU kicked up an enormous fuss about the safety of the reverse at Corcoran Drive, and to get the change in, it was agreed to provide a reversing assistant, who in practice rode out and back on each trip rather than spend seven hours stood on a housing estate waiting for the hourly bus. I can't now remember what the final resolution of this was, unfortunately, although I've just remembered that the first 384 journey on a Sunday moring had reversed there for years without apparent problem.

 

[PG]

The biggest pain was Corcoran Drive in Romiley, terminus of the 207 route from Manchester via Reddish. This along with the interworked 206 to Greave was the last all-day conductor (or guard) operated route from Stockport, but was eventually converted to OPO. Just prior to the start date, the T&GWU kicked up an enormous fuss about the safety of the reverse at Corcoran Drive, and to get the change in, it was agreed to provide a reversing assistant, who in practice rode out and back on each trip rather than spend seven hours stood on a housing estate waiting for the hourly bus. I can't now remember what the final resolution of this was, unfortunately, although I've just remembered that the first 384 journey on a Sunday moring had reversed there for years without apparent problem.

Might be totally wide of the mark as I'm not well acquainted with the area but would Sunday shift premium/allowances have any bearing on the ability of that 384 journey to magically manage the reverse at Corcoran Drive unaided?

 

[Ant158]

In the village of Grindleton near Clitheroe in Lancashire, local buses run up Main Street and reverse to turn around before heading back down the way they came.
https://goo.gl/maps/BFeAwfBvAwmhsXXG7

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

There was a time when companies actually planned where two buses would cross on a route, and such instructions were to 'remind' drivers to look out for the bus coming from the opposite direction in case it was running late.

Sadly knowledge seems to have been lost (as noted also on the railway) with lack of career progression, leading to instances where on-time services will meet head-on in unsuitable locations. Most professional drivers are aware of these situations and often depots will have informal agreements over which driver will hang-back to avoid two buses meeting in an awkward place.

Not sure about the entire timetable, but I think at least some of the services on the route 32 operated by Compass Travel are timed so that the Redhill bound bus has to wait in the centre of Betchworth - a tiny village bounded by narrow roads - until the Guildford bound service has passed it, to avoid one of those unsuitable "head-on" situations.

At least, that has been the case every time I have used the route - albeit only a handful of times!

Once overheard the driver have a lengthy moan to the driver of the other bus at the passing point, about "selfish cyclists" on the narrow roads leading out of Betchworth. If not another bus, it's bikes!

 

[Westcountryman]

Though I doubt you’d have to jump starting a manual bus in reverse down a flyover ramp which happened to me earlier this year in Colombia. About a 30 seater. Conductor got the other vehicles out of the way.

Actually a bump start.

Several employ banksman anyway (despite how boring/dangerous the job is!) Banbury and Swansea are two that I can think of. The one in Swansea is often distracted by herding numpties out of the bus station.

And Poole.

 

[adrock1976]

In the Campsie Glen area west of Lennoxtown, the bus (it was the 175 at one time - now the X85 or X87) runs up the road that leads to a car park at the foot of the hills and reverses into the bus stop to terminate.

 

[Whisky Papa]

Might be totally wide of the mark as I'm not well acquainted with the area but would Sunday shift premium/allowances have any bearing on the ability of that 384 journey to magically manage the reverse at Corcoran Drive unaided?

I think it was just a historical quirk, and was sanctioned by the Traffic Comissioner and T&GWU because at that time on a Sunday morning there would be little road or pedestrian traffic about. I suspect it went outward from Stockport to Romiley as a 383x and returned as a 383, as he 384 circular didn't run on a Sunday. The 206/7 started a little later in the morning I think, so this journey gave an early bus in from Romiley before the first full 383 service had made its way in from Mellor. I can't check as the only remaining set of GMT timetables I have covers from when the 206/7 went OPO, 7th Jan 1985, at which point the journey became a 207 and, I assume, then required the reversing assistant in line with all other 207 journeys.

 

[jumble]

South Harrow has the strange situation that it has a tiny bus station next to the tube. There is another stop 1 minutes walk reached by the other exit.
The H12 starts at the bus station and goes on to Stanmore
The amusing thing is everyone heads for the second stop and if the Picc is terminating at South Harrow the queues are large with people trying to get to Rayners Lane
Those of us in the know go to the first stop and jump straight on the bus with no queuing
They is literally not more than 1 minute walking distance between them

 

[TXMISTA]

Avondale Road terminus in Mortlake is essentially a “mini” bus station for only two routes. If I’m not mistaken it’s the remnants of a larger bus terminal.

 

[jp4712]

I was compiling schedules at Stockport prior to deregulation (1981-85)

So you’ll know my old friend Alan Gaskell...? He’s still at Stagecoach Manchester but due to retire soon. I last saw him a month ago when he showed me restoration progress on his Atkinson bus, and I did the same for him on my Bristol just a few miles away.

 

[Cricketer8for9]

Avondale Road bus “station” is on the site of Mortlake Bus Garage, as are the newer houses to the north is the bus terminus.

 

[Whisky Papa]

So you’ll know my old friend Alan Gaskell...? He’s still at Stagecoach Manchester but due to retire soon. I last saw him a month ago when he showed me restoration progress on his Atkinson bus, and I did the same for him on my Bristol just a few miles away.

Yes, he was my boss over the later part of that period. I thought he might have retired by now, it's a good while since I last saw him when we met up so I could donate some old magazines to the Museum of Transport.

 

[matchmaker]

There used to be a large turning circle in Danes Drive in Glasgow at the entrance to the Scotstoun Showground. However, when the 10A* service was extended to Scotstounhill a reverse was required at Danes Crescent. The turning circle remained in place for many years, but there is now a new roundabout and entrance to the showground.

*It may have been numbered 7A at the time, but I only knew it as 10A. The extension took place many years ago - certainly before I was born in 1957. I have a certain geeky interest in the service, as my dad proposed to my mum on the top deck of a 7A bus!

 

[Dr_Paul]

A counter-example, at some bus stations all buses must reverse because there is a building directly forward from the perspective of vehicles parked in the bus stands. I believe Gloucester is an example of this.

At Kingston bus station in the old coal yard, a bus goes empty into one of about a dozen dead-end bays (arriving passengers having already alighted at a stop in the street), the passengers embark, and then the bus reverses out of the bay, then proceeds forwards to the station exit.

Avondale Road terminus in Mortlake is essentially a “mini” bus station for only two routes. If I’m not mistaken it’s the remnants of a larger bus terminal.

It's where Mortlake bus garage used to be. The 9 used to terminate there, and this terminus was continued after the garage was closed in the early 1980s. The 209, which took over the part of the 9 route from Mortlake to Hammersmith, still turns there.

I'm rather surprised that this terminus was not discontinued after the garage closed, and the route extended into Richmond or at least to pass Mortlake station, which doesn't have a bus service.