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Trivia: Historically longer bus routes

telstarbox

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Which routes used to be longer than they are now? (Excluding those which have a split number for EU rules).

In Kent / Sussex the 5 used to run Maidstone - Hastings, now cut back to Hawkhurst

@paul1609 mentioned a Brighton to Canterbury route?

The X5 used to run Oxford - Cambridge but now splits at Bedford.
 
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cnjb8

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Transpeak used to run Nottingham-Derby-Matlock-Bakewell-Buxton-Manchester. It was cut back to Derby, then withdrawn from Manchester to Buxton alongside the Northern timetable uplift in 2018. Today it runs Bakewell-Buxton with some journeys to Derby
 

Dai Corner

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I think there used to be buses Cardiff-Newport-Chepstow-Lydney-Gloucester. Now youd have to change three times.
 

HullRailMan

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Back in the day(I’ve seen an NBC era timetable) the Hull - Pocklington -York route used to carry on to Leeds. Of course, until a few years ago, the 121 Hull - Bridlington ran through to Filey and Scarborough before the route was split at Brid and the 12 introduced. Also, until very recently, the 250 Hull - Grimsby ran through to Cleethorpes.
 

ANDREW_D_WEBB

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Numerous London routes have been shortened or split over the years, the theory being that shorted routes are easier to regulate in heavy/ congested traffic.
 

Trainguy34

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IIRC the 89 from Aylesham used to run Canterbury - Aylesham - Dover. Until last year, there was an 89 leaving Whitfield at 7ish which now starts in Aylseham and then the 16.10 89B from Canterbury used to run to Whitfield, however was also cut back.
 

JKP

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How far back do you want to go? Prior to 7th September 1981 there were three routes between Newcastle and Edinburgh operated jointly by Eastern Scottish and United. 1. via Morpeth, Alnwick, Berwick, Dunbar and Haddington now split into X18 Newcastle to Berwick and 253 Berwick to Edinburgh. 2 via Morpeth, Wooler, Coldstream, Kelso, Lauder, Dalkeith. Now 710 Kelso or Coldstream to Morpeth or Metrocentre and only on Wednesdays and Saturdays. No through buses currently Coldstream or Kelso to Edinburgh. From Kelso by the 67 change at Newtown St Boswells to 51. 3 via Otterburn, Jedburgh, Lauder, Dalkeith now X74 Jedburgh to Newcastle. North from Jedburgh by the 68 change at Newtown St Boswells to the 51.
 

Flange Squeal

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Stagecoach South's 10 currently runs a 10 minute journey between Basingstoke and Old Basing. This service used to run for around an hour to Camberley via Hook, Winchfield, Hartley Wintney and Blackwater (for a long time as 200 but renumbered 10 when Basingstoke's routes were renumbered into a lower series). The Basingstoke to Hook section is now served by route 13 and the very eastern part of Blackwater to Camberley is served by route 3 (as it was prior), however there is no replacement for the core and most significant length section Hook - Winchfield - Hartley Wintney - Blackwater, or overall historic Basingstoke to Camberley route.

The Hartley Wintney Community Bus does operate a couple of morning shopper journeys on Mondays and Wednesdays between Winchfield and The Meadows Tesco/M&S, however this requires booking 48hrs in advance so can hardly be considered much of a replacement for what was an hourly Monday to Saturday service.
 

Mainline421

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First Wessex X53 used to be Bournemouth to Exeter, later curtailed to start from Poole, then diverted via Axminster, then split into three (actually separate not just for EU rules), then the third section got scrapped entirely. But it still operates with the same number between Weymouth and Axminster
 
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PG

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Back in NBC days the 4X operated Bath - Trowbridge - Warminster - Salisbury, before being renumbered X4 and extended West to start from Bristol. It was a joint operation between Badgerline and Wilts & Dorset. Nowadays First Bristol, Bath & the West (FBBW) run the D1/D1x Bath - Trowbridge - Warminster with the D1x terminating short at Trowbridge.

Interestingly FBBW still run the X4, just that it's now a Bristol - Portishead service!
 

150249

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Not much but the A in Exeter used to run from Alphington to Thornpark Rise but now only reaches the bus station
 

Silver Cobra

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First Eastern Counties route X1 used to be advertised as running from Peterborough to Lowestoft via Wisbech, Kings Lynn, Swaffham, Dereham, Norwich, Great Yarmouth and Gorleston (I don't know if they ever ran the same bus through the entire route or involved a change of bus at Norwich). Sometime in the late 2010s they split the route up to be the Excel between Peterborough and Norwich, and the X1 between Norwich and Lowestoft.

Stagecoach Midlands routes X4 Northampton to Peterborough (via Wellingborough, Kettering and Corby) and X7 Northampton to Leicester (via Brixworth, Market Harborough and Kibworth) both originally started from Milton Keynes. However, this section was spun off into it's own service, the X6 Northampton to Milton Keynes via Roade and Grafton Regis.
 
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pinkmarie80

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Arriva Midlands East 29/29A used to run from Burton-Leicester. It now only runs as far as Swadlincote and some journeys I believe split at Coalville.
 

stadler

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The current route 31 from Cuckfield to Uckfield used to go from Cuckfield to Hurst Green but has since been cut back and that journey now requires three separate routes.
 

Roger1973

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Numerous London routes have been shortened or split over the years, the theory being that shorted routes are easier to regulate in heavy/ congested traffic.

Yes.

Route 12 is worth a mention - until the early 70s, on paper from South Croydon to Willesden Junction (with peak extensions to Park Royal) although I don't think any buses ran the full length of the route then. Even in to the mid 1980s, the route was Norwood Junction - Willesden Junction, although again buses running the full route were a rarity. I have a vague recollection of travelling with parent from Forest Hill, and it took some time for parent to realise at that time of day / week, there weren't any buses from that far south to wherever we were trying to get to, even though that was on the 12 route. I also understand it was the last London route to be scheduled completely manually, as the computer system in place then couldn't handle the number of garages involved.

And 141 from Grove Park to Wood Green (previously to Winchmore Hill) is worth a mention, although again through buses end to end were a rarity, and for some years there was a gap in the middle on Saturdays, as it was split Wood Green - Moorgate and Grove Park - Elephant (think there may have been early morning journeys as far as Farringdon Street for homeward print workers when 'Fleet Street' was still based in and around the area.) Although at a later stage, buses only ran through on Saturdays, bringing Metrobuses in to SE London.

That's another angle (as well as the regulation / reliability argument) for shorter routes in London now - traditionally, many (although not all) of the longer routes had multiple garages along or near the line of route, which is more difficult post privatisation / tendering.

In Thames Valley land -

Route 1 was historically Newbury - Reading - Maidenhead. The Newbury end is broadly now Reading Buses route 1, the Maidenhead end only runs a few journeys on Saturdays as (new) Thames Valley 127

Route 2 was historically Reading - Bracknell - Windsor, and 3 Reading - Wokingham - Camberley. In the 1990s Bee Line era, this had become a group of routes in the 190+ sequence, some extending as far east as Sunningdale and Slough (and briefly via Slough to Heathrow.) Reading - Bracknell is now Reading Buses 4 / X4, east of Bracknell is now (new) Thames Valley territory.

Route 20 was Windsor - Maidenhead - High Wycombe, now split at Maidenhead.

The 1933 London Transport red (central) and green (country) bus areas didn't quite match what became Greater London in 1970. Many country bus / London Country routes have been split around the TFL / shire county boundary - 480 used to be Erith to Gravesend (Valley Drive) but the London end became 428, for example. There must be quite a few others, and similarly some London Transport (central bus) routes that extended beyond Greater London also got cut back - the 279 used to run beyond Waltham Cross to Hammond Street, which I think was the last Routemaster route outside the GLC area.

Although there are a few opposites to that - route 96 extending to Bluewater (along with 428 and 492, which both are descendants of green bus routes.)

The current route 31 from Cuckfield to Uckfield used to go from Cuckfield to Hurst Green but has since been cut back and that journey now requires three separate routes.

Southdown (in some cases joint with Maidstone and District) had some very long routes - including the 'Heathfield Pool' which included (from memory) Tunbridge Wells to Eastbourne and Hastings, and route 122 from Gravesend to Brighton via Tunbridge Wells. I have read that while buses worked through, the bus crews never crossed Tunbridge Wells on route 122 and would drive the other company's buses as part of their duty.

The Gravesend - Medway route of Maidstone and District (then route 26) continued to Sittingbourne, which must be at least 2 routes now.
 

Busaholic

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Yes.

Route 12 is worth a mention - until the early 70s, on paper from South Croydon to Willesden Junction (with peak extensions to Park Royal) although I don't think any buses ran the full length of the route then. Even in to the mid 1980s, the route was Norwood Junction - Willesden Junction, although again buses running the full route were a rarity. I have a vague recollection of travelling with parent from Forest Hill, and it took some time for parent to realise at that time of day / week, there weren't any buses from that far south to wherever we were trying to get to, even though that was on the 12 route. I also understand it was the last London route to be scheduled completely manually, as the computer system in place then couldn't handle the number of garages involved.

And 141 from Grove Park to Wood Green (previously to Winchmore Hill) is worth a mention, although again through buses end to end were a rarity, and for some years there was a gap in the middle on Saturdays, as it was split Wood Green - Moorgate and Grove Park - Elephant (think there may have been early morning journeys as far as Farringdon Street for homeward print workers when 'Fleet Street' was still based in and around the area.) Although at a later stage, buses only ran through on Saturdays, bringing Metrobuses in to SE London.

That's another angle (as well as the regulation / reliability argument) for shorter routes in London now - traditionally, many (although not all) of the longer routes had multiple garages along or near the line of route, which is more difficult post privatisation / tendering.

In Thames Valley land -

Route 1 was historically Newbury - Reading - Maidenhead. The Newbury end is broadly now Reading Buses route 1, the Maidenhead end only runs a few journeys on Saturdays as (new) Thames Valley 127

Route 2 was historically Reading - Bracknell - Windsor, and 3 Reading - Wokingham - Camberley. In the 1990s Bee Line era, this had become a group of routes in the 190+ sequence, some extending as far east as Sunningdale and Slough (and briefly via Slough to Heathrow.) Reading - Bracknell is now Reading Buses 4 / X4, east of Bracknell is now (new) Thames Valley territory.

Route 20 was Windsor - Maidenhead - High Wycombe, now split at Maidenhead.

The 1933 London Transport red (central) and green (country) bus areas didn't quite match what became Greater London in 1970. Many country bus / London Country routes have been split around the TFL / shire county boundary - 480 used to be Erith to Gravesend (Valley Drive) but the London end became 428, for example. There must be quite a few others, and similarly some London Transport (central bus) routes that extended beyond Greater London also got cut back - the 279 used to run beyond Waltham Cross to Hammond Street, which I think was the last Routemaster route outside the GLC area.

Although there are a few opposites to that - route 96 extending to Bluewater (along with 428 and 492, which both are descendants of green bus routes.)



Southdown (in some cases joint with Maidstone and District) had some very long routes - including the 'Heathfield Pool' which included (from memory) Tunbridge Wells to Eastbourne and Hastings, and route 122 from Gravesend to Brighton via Tunbridge Wells. I have read that while buses worked through, the bus crews never crossed Tunbridge Wells on route 122 and would drive the other company's buses as part of their duty.

The Gravesend - Medway route of Maidstone and District (then route 26) continued to Sittingbourne, which must be at least 2 routes now.
Excellent stuff. Just to add a couple of things, The Sunday 141 from January 1970 ran as effectively two routes with a huge gap in the middle i.e. Wood Green to Moorgate and Hew Cross Gate to Grove Park. Incidentally, when the route was Winchmore Hill to Grove Park no buses from WH ever went beyond Moorgate, but there was the very odd journey that did Palmers Green to Grove Park.

I think the 37 is also worth mentioning, Hounslow to Peckham, as there were always some through journeys, indeed in later years some extended to New Cross Gate as 'live' garage journeys,

On Maidstone and District I'm pretty sure there was a service through to Faversham on the 26 when I lived in Sittingboutne in the early 1970s. The Gravesend to Sittingboutne frequency was every 10 minutes on weekdays, unimaginable now!
 

Pub

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Back in NBC days Crosville had the C84 between Chester and Newcastle U L later extended to Hanley. Now Stagecoach operate between Chester and Crewe as 84 and D and G operate a 85 between Nantwich and Newcastle via Crewe but it uses a different route between Nantwich and Crewe.
In Wales Crosville ran a Chester to Barmouth service now cut back to Wrexham and Chester to Rhyl services are now split at Holywell with Arriva. Others may be able to expand on those services.
 

JGurney

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Stagecoach South's 10 currently runs a 10 minute journey between Basingstoke and Old Basing. This service used to run for around an hour to Camberley via Hook, Winchfield, Hartley Wintney and Blackwater (for a long time as 200 but renumbered 10 when Basingstoke's routes were renumbered into a lower series).
As Alder Valley service 201, it ran Basingstoke - Hook - Hartley Wintney - Camberley - Sunningdale - Staines - Heathrow (late 70's - early 80's).
 

Statto

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Back in NBC days Crosville had the C84 between Chester and Newcastle U L later extended to Hanley. Now Stagecoach operate between Chester and Crewe as 84 and D and G operate a 85 between Nantwich and Newcastle via Crewe but it uses a different route between Nantwich and Crewe.
In Wales Crosville ran a Chester to Barmouth service now cut back to Wrexham and Chester to Rhyl services are now split at Holywell with Arriva. Others may be able to expand on those services.

Couple of things

The 94 (now T3) was Barmouth - Wrexham, the Chester extension was short lived, most of the routes history it always operated operated Wrexham - Barmouth, & i think the extension to Chester happened was when it was operated by Arriva

The Rhyl - Chester services still run as a through route but change numbers at Holywell

1 Wrexham - Chester, at one time this used to operate from Llangollen via Wrexham, these are now 2 separate routes, 1 Chester - Wrexham & 5 Wrexham - Llangollen,
2 Wrexham - Oswestry also used top operate to Chester, & that the timetable was coordinated with the 1 between Wrexham & Chester
 
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SCH117X

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Mountain Goat for a period operated a service from Kenswick IIRC to York, may have been one day a week
 

pitdiver

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I used to live in North London. I can remember route 2 that ran from North Finchley to Crystal Palace. The 84 from Arnos Grove to St Albans and the 279 from Waltham Abbey to Smithfield Market. There were probably others including the 29 that ran to Victoria but I'm not sure from where. Mustn't forget the Green Line coaches. The 715 springs to mind Hertford to Guildford.
 

PeterC

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I used to live in North London. I can remember route 2 that ran from North Finchley to Crystal Palace. The 84 from Arnos Grove to St Albans and the 279 from Waltham Abbey to Smithfield Market. There were probably others including the 29 that ran to Victoria but I'm not sure from where. Mustn't forget the Green Line coaches. The 715 springs to mind Hertford to Guildford.
The 84 ran all the way from the Crooked Billet in Walthamstow at one point. I think that was only on Sundays but I did do the whole trip on a Red Rover ticket as a 14 year old bus spotter
 

OptareOlympus

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Stagecoach 711 between Dover and Brighton. Hourly service, 92 miles, 5 hours end to end serving all stops. Operated jointly by South Coast Buses and East Kent using Volvo Olympians from Hastings, Eastbourne and Dover depots and New Romney, Rye and Seaford outstations. Ran from 1994 to 2000. Initially from Folkestone to Brighton but then extended to Dover in 1997 when the then new A20 dual carriageway opened.
 

Whisky Papa

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I know the 90/2 Halifax - Todmorden - Littleborough/Burnley were linked to the 508 Halifax - Leeds route in the 1970s, although I'm not sure how long this lasted.

At deregulation, the 508 was linked to the Halifax - Rishworth / Commons routes (560/2?), while the Halifax - Queensbury - Bradford 576 route got linked to the Halifax - Sowerby Bridge - Hubberton / Steep Lane / Boulderclough group - a bus leaving Bradford showing 'Steep Lane' was not entirely helpful! Both these links were severed after a few years.

The Huddersfield - Halifax 503 also got extended through to Keighley / Bradford via Thornton. I heard this often gave rise to overloading with returning concessionary pass-holders in the afternoon, not helped by being worked almost entirely by single-deckers. There was certainly some fuss when they were split at Halifax: the route to Bradford via Thornton disappeared, and even the Keighley route spent many years in the doldrums.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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There are frankly loads of these so in addition to those provided by @JKP, others in the North East were...

X46 Crook to Newcastle is now Arriva 46 and GNE 21
723 Darlington to Newcastle was cut to be Darlington to Durham (now Arriva 7) with rest to GNE 21
256 became X56 became 5 Middlesbrough to Whitby - now truncated at Easington with southern section now running to Redcar
128 Scarborough to Ripon - truncated at Helmsley
81 Redcar to Stokesley - truncated at Guisborough
290 Middlesbrough to Northallerton became 290 Midd to Stokesley - now runs as 28A Middlesbrough to Stokesley and 80/89 Stokesley to Northallerton
X76 Darlington to Langdon Beck - now runs only Darlington to Barnard Castle
73 Darlington to Bedale - was split to be Northallerton to Bedale with the Darlington section as 70 but then....
70 Darlington to Ripon - was split at Northallerton as 72 for EU reasons but now operated as separate services with 70 Northallerton to Ripon
159 Ripon to Hawes - now runs Ripon to Richmond

Surely the rule (for want of a better phrase) has got to be the number still exists in some manner rather than ones like Trigger's Broom? for example, you have 724 Bp Auckland to Newcastle that is now Arriva 6 and GNE 21 so all the component parts still exist but the numbers are different (note that GNE X21 is actually a continuation of former OK 700 that latterly reused the 724 number)

The Rhyl - Chester services still run as a through route but change numbers at Holywell
Isn't that what the OP said was excluded - those that are EU dodges?
 

Simon75

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X18 Hanley (Stoke-on-Trent) to Sheffield was run by PMT/ First Potteries .
It was then split in 2 (both connecting at Buxton) 118 Hanley to Buxton (First Potteries) then 218 Buxton to Sheffield (First South Yorkshire)
218 was then withdrawn. 118 was then withdrawn by First
 

neilcobbe

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320 Was Wigan-Liverpool for years, cut back to Wigan-St.Helens in the early 90's. Still follows exactly the same route.
 

nw1

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As Alder Valley service 201, it ran Basingstoke - Hook - Hartley Wintney - Camberley - Sunningdale - Staines - Heathrow (late 70's - early 80's).

That was before even my time. I remember it existing as the 200 (Basingstoke-Camberley only) but there was a separate 201 during the same era going from Basingstoke-Alton.

I wonder if the 70s version of the 201 (above) is some kind of descendant of the Aldershot and District 1, which was something like Aldershot-Egham and is shown in the 1969 Timetable World timetable? (No trace of anything like this exists now, nor did it even in the late NBC era in the 80s).

Other examples:

Stagecoach went through a phase of temporarily introducing very long routes in the 90s, which were formed by "joining together" other routes. They only lasted a few years and were then split up again.
One example was the 260 (Bognor Regis-Guildford), made up of three former routes, the "old" 260 (Bognor-Midhurst), the 229 (Midhurst-Haslemere) and the 267 (Haslemere-Guildford, a few journeys a day only).

It was run with a mix of Hants and Surrey (ex-Alder Valley) and Coastline (ex-Southdown) workings, and a mix of Nationals and newer Dennis Darts. As a result of the low bridge at Camelsdale, vehicles running the full route were wholly single-deck, whereas in other eras the 260 was always double-deck. Indeed, short journeys (Bognor-Lavant, IIRC) still were double-deck.

Introduced beginning of June 1993.

A similar example was the 38 (Aldershot-Havant, later Aldershot-Portsmouth) comprised of the 226 (Aldershot-Petersfield) and, I think, the 37 (Petersfield-Havant, though not totally sure of its former number). Around in 1996 though I can't remember exact date of introduction. Again a mix of Hants and Surrey and Coastline vehicles. 1996 was perhaps when I last remember a Leyland National in service, and it was operating the 38.
 
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Ianigsy

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First Leeds X84 used to run Leeds-Skipton, abandoned the evening and Sunday between Ilkley and Skipton around 2008 and then during Covid was split at Otley with a separate bus doing Otley-Skipton as the 784. Post-Covid it runs Leeds-Ilkley only and Transdev run the Ilkley-Skipton section as a separate service.

The 653 used to run hourly between Bradford and Harrogate (with a Sunday extension to Knaresborough as the 654) but is now a single journey between Pool in Wharfedale and Bradford. Leaves Bradford at 5.30am and returns at 6.15.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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And a raft of West Country ones based on retaining the same number...

184 Bath to Frome - now Midsomer Norton to Frome
162 Wells to Frome - now Shepton Mallet to Frome
21 Taunton to Burnham on Sea - for a brief period, it was extended to Weston super Mare but thankfully unpicked
D1 Bath to Salisbury - now Bath to Warminster
271-3 Bath to Urchfont/Easterton - now Bath to Devizes
87 Salisbury to Andover - now curtailed at Middle Wallop
X3 Salisbury to Poole - now curtailed at Bournemouth
X53 Bournemouth to Exeter - now only runs Weymouth to Axminster
155 Barnstaple to Exeter - now runs only Barnstaple to South Molton
398 Tiverton to Minehead - now runs Tiverton to Dulverton
99 Taunton to Yeovil - now runs as First 99 Taunton to Chard, and SWC 96 Chard to Yeovil

635 Chippenham to Marshfield used to run through to Bristol. It was then separated into two halves (both numbered 635 but tendered by different local authorities) and operated by First (Bristol to Marshfield) and Faresaver. Faresaver then won the other half and it resumed as a through route, but later reverted to two halves with First regaining what was then the 35. 635 still runs as Chippenham to Marshfield but the 35 now only runs to Kingswood but is now run by Faresaver again!

There are countless examples I've missed, plus plenty of other long routes in the mists of time that have been dismembered and are now covered by an array of different services, all with different numbers
 
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