Trivia: Journeys where the route crosses over itself (on the same service)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

big all

On Moderation
Joined
23 Sep 2018
Messages
826
Location
redhill
there used to be a london bridge to holborn viaduct service every half hour although it didnt cross over its self or reverse at all it took around an hour and a half for 2 stations near 2 miles appart ;);)
 

Taunton

Established Member
Joined
1 Aug 2013
Messages
4,999
The Hounslow Roundabout service from Waterloo turns right at Barnes, goes round the loop, and then comes back and crosses its own path at Barnes again about 45 minutes later.

When I was last at Waterloo I noticed it was announced on the automated announcement PA as calling at "Vauxhall, Queenstown Road, Clapham …. Clapham, Queenstown Road and London Waterloo". I hadn't noticed that before, and seemingly whoever set the PA up, presumably from the working timetable, hadn't noticed it either.

There were previously several such looping services from Victoria and London Bridge which did the same, but these seem much reduced now.
 

Mag_seven

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
1 Sep 2014
Messages
6,783
Location
here to eternity
A Cathcart "Inner" Circle service i.e. one that calls at Pollokshields West first will cross over (on the level) the outbound track at Muirhouse North Junction just after leaving Pollokshaws East.
 

pdeaves

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2014
Messages
3,428
Location
Gateway to the South West
In the days of weird and wonderful sleeper services, there was one that did something like west coast main line, then onto GW main line, round the Greenford loop then cross over itself near Old Oak Common before taking the former curve through what is now North Pole depot to the West London Line. I don't know the reason for this strange route.
 

big all

On Moderation
Joined
23 Sep 2018
Messages
826
Location
redhill
The Hounslow Roundabout service from Waterloo turns right at Barnes, goes round the loop, and then comes back and crosses its own path at Barnes again about 45 minutes later.

When I was last at Waterloo I noticed it was announced on the automated announcement PA as calling at "Vauxhall, Queenstown Road, Clapham …. Clapham, Queenstown Road and London Waterloo". I hadn't noticed that before, and seemingly whoever set the PA up, presumably from the working timetable, hadn't noticed it either.

There were previously several such looping services from Victoria and London Bridge which did the same, but these seem much reduced now.
most off the long rounders finished when the new flyovers at gloucester road where built and the loop between norwood junction and selhurst was remove sometime around 1980 from memory
the odd rush hour train still replicated the loop but as two separate trains as you had to go through selhurst depot
but off course that was a long time ago
 
Last edited:
Joined
7 Nov 2013
Messages
734
Location
Where my keyboard has no £ key
If we're considering flat junctions (despite examples given by the OP in post #1 suggesting passing on a different level), there are a few in Third Rail Land:-
  • Cannon St - Sidcup - Slade Green - Greenwich - Cannon St circulars at North Kent Jn.
  • Cannon St - Bexleyheath - Slade Green - Greenwich - Cannon St circulars at North Kent Jn.
    Possibly a few more examples on Southeastern.

  • St Albans - Sutton Loop (anticlockwise) at Streatham South Jn. (technically these trains terminate at Sutton, but almost every one continues around the loop with minimal wait at Sutton).

And since we're considering overseas too, the twice per day Melbourne - Sydney Countrylink XPT (HST knock-off) traverses the Bethungra Spiral in rural New South Wales.
 

alistairlees

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2016
Messages
1,905
In the days of weird and wonderful sleeper services, there was one that did something like west coast main line, then onto GW main line, round the Greenford loop then cross over itself near Old Oak Common before taking the former curve through what is now North Pole depot to the West London Line. I don't know the reason for this strange route.
This was a service to newhaven marine, believe it or not. Can’t remember where it was from though!
 

causton

Established Member
Joined
4 Aug 2010
Messages
5,502
Location
Somewhere between WY372 and MV7
Last time I took the sleeper via the ECML into London Euston, it came up from Primrose Hill on the down slow WCML into Wembley yard, then reversed and took the relief line - the same line the Southern takes to get to Clapham Junction, then crossed over onto the up fast line at West London Junction, crossing under where it had just been!
 

Taunton

Established Member
Joined
1 Aug 2013
Messages
4,999
Merseyrail's 2B03 08:07 Chester to Birkenhead North via Liverpool passes under its route on its second pass through Hamilton Square (the Birkenhead North branch passes beneath the line from Birkenhead Central by a burrowing Junction there).
Most services here return to their starting point nowadays, but for a long time the timetables were interleaved and trains round the loop served all the outer terminals in sequence through the day. This meant that if you were travelling from Hooton to West Kirby, as I did a few times, it was pointless to change at Hamilton Square, as you just got the same train which had been round through Liverpool. So this was an even more select group where not only the train crossed itself, but logical passenger journeys (ie not railfans) would do so as well.
 

Chris M

Member
Joined
4 Feb 2012
Messages
914
Location
London E14
On the London Underground, the platforms at Chancery Lane and St. Paul's are arranged vertically (eastbound is above westbound at one of them and vice versa at the other) so any trains going all the way round the Hainault loop cross both over and under their own route, and then do the same due to the right-hand running at White City (Westbound trains pass over the eastbound after Shepherd's Bush and then pass under the eastbound at Wood Lane junction halfway to East Acton. I can't remember if any trains are scheduled to do this in passenger service in the current timetable though.

Similarly eastbound Piccadilly trains pass over the westbound line at South Kensington due to stacked platforms, with trains going round the T4 loop traversing both lines in one trip (although not one logical passenger journey).

On the northern line, a train running from Edgware to High Barnet (but not vice versa) via the Kennington loop will pass over its route at Camden Town junction. This can't be done in passenger service though. The loop is onyl accessible to/from the Charing Cross branch so neither the north and southbound Bank branch tunnels passing above and below the CX branch ones west of Euston nor the right hand running between Boroough and Bank allow for more examples.
 

DPWH

On Moderation
Joined
8 Sep 2016
Messages
244
Anything that runs Nottingham-Grantham-Skegness eastbound crosses over its own path at Allington junction. Anything westbound the other way doesn't because trains run on the left of the double track.
 

IainG81

Member
Joined
19 Mar 2017
Messages
71
There's a few interesting late night SWR services one I'm looking at now seems to run to Kingston via Strawberry Hill then returns to Strawberry Hill and calls at the same stations again so it stops at Hampton Wick twice 11 minutes apart.
 

Crossover

Established Member
Joined
4 Jun 2009
Messages
8,259
Location
Yorkshire
I doubt any charters ever run onto the Looe branch as there's nowhere to shunt clear of the local service.
The Branch Line Society ran one fairly recently, including traversing the chord to gain the Looe branch - I was reading the trip report yesterday and it seems that it ran on a winter Sunday when there are no passenger services on the line
 

Dr_Paul

Member
Joined
3 Sep 2013
Messages
841
In the days of weird and wonderful sleeper services, there was one that did something like west coast main line, then onto GW main line, round the Greenford loop then cross over itself near Old Oak Common before taking the former curve through what is now North Pole depot to the West London Line. I don't know the reason for this strange route.
A couple of years back, there was a regular freight service from the Crossrail building site near Royal Oak to Angsterstein's Wharf that went down the old Birmingham line to Greenford East Junction, round via West Ealing to Acton Mainline, up to Acton Wells and then round to the West London Line and South London Line through to Peckham and on via Lewisham and Slade Green to Angerstein's Wharf, thus crossing itself twice.

Several daytime freight services coming up from East Croydon and heading off to Lewisham do not take the direct route towards the SLL at Pouparts Junction, but go to the WLL at Clapham Junction, through Shepherds Bush, round at Willesden on to the North London Line to South Acton, then to Kew Bridge, Barnes and off the Windsor Lines at Clapham Junction at Ludgate Junction, thus crossing itself, and then on to the SLL towards Peckham. This is presumably to avoid using the Brighton up fast, as the off-peak ones do go straight through at Pouparts Junction.
 

Kite159

Veteran Member
Joined
27 Jan 2014
Messages
14,045
Location
West of Andover
The Branch Line Society ran one fairly recently, including traversing the chord to gain the Looe branch - I was reading the trip report yesterday and it seems that it ran on a winter Sunday when there are no passenger services on the line
Winter Sundays is the only time a charter can run onto the Looe branch and even then getting the permission to run over the connection is rare (a couple previous charters had to detrain on P1, do the connection and pick up the passengers again on P3 to do the line.
 

Crossover

Established Member
Joined
4 Jun 2009
Messages
8,259
Location
Yorkshire
Winter Sundays is the only time a charter can run onto the Looe branch and even then getting the permission to run over the connection is rare (a couple previous charters had to detrain on P1, do the connection and pick up the passengers again on P3 to do the line.
Yeah - it seems just the two railtours have ever traversed the connection with passengers on - around 20 years apart from each other
 
Joined
7 Nov 2013
Messages
734
Location
Where my keyboard has no £ key
We haven't mentioned many freight workings yet, but back in the heyday of Fiddlers Ferry Power Station, there were regular mgr coal trains via Winwick Jn, Walton Old Jn and Arpley Jn which passed through Warrington Bank Quay high level then low level (or vice versa).

These came from origins such as Hunterston, Liverpool Docks (via Earlestown) and, until the 1990s, from Lancashire pits such as Bickershaw and Parkside. Not sure how many trains still run to & from the north today, but in the past there was a good number each day making the double reversal at Arpley & Walton Old Jns.
 

gg1

Member
Joined
2 Jun 2011
Messages
594
Location
Birmingham
Another historic example would be NE to SE cross country services back in the days when they were loco hauled.

To avoid the need for the loco to change ends, some services would enter New Street from the west via the Camp Hill line, Lifford curve and Cross City line before departing eastbound.
 

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
19,162
Location
Nottingham
Another historic example would be NE to SE cross country services back in the days when they were loco hauled.

To avoid the need for the loco to change ends, some services would enter New Street from the west via the Camp Hill line, Lifford curve and Cross City line before departing eastbound.
Today's XC trains that run between the Derby and Reading lines cross their own paths near Proof House.
 

scrapy

Established Member
Joined
15 Dec 2008
Messages
1,330
Anything that runs Nottingham-Grantham-Skegness eastbound crosses over its own path at Allington junction. Anything westbound the other way doesn't because trains run on the left of the double track.
Similarly anything from Liverpool to Crewe via Manchester Airport crosses it's own path at Heald Green West junction, towards Crewe only.
 

edwin_m

Veteran Member
Joined
21 Apr 2013
Messages
19,162
Location
Nottingham
Almost any place a service reverses mid-journey is likely to involve it crossing its own path at a flat junction. I interpret the OP as looking for examples where it crosses its own path on a bridge.
 

Dr_Paul

Member
Joined
3 Sep 2013
Messages
841
Almost any place a service reverses mid-journey is likely to involve it crossing its own path at a flat junction. I interpret the OP as looking for examples where it crosses its own path on a bridge.
That's how I interpreted the original post.

If we are to include both criteria, there is a Kingston to Waterloo via Hounslow service on Sundays that reverses at Twickenham and therefore goes underneath its path at Twickenham at the flying junction there, but this is only in respect of trains starting at Kingston, not those starting at Waterloo, as it's a flat junction in that direction at Twickenham.
 

E100

Member
Joined
29 Apr 2018
Messages
90
Almost any place a service reverses mid-journey is likely to involve it crossing its own path at a flat junction. I interpret the OP as looking for examples where it crosses its own path on a bridge.
That's fair comment though I have to say I've been rather enjoying all the examples posted to date :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top