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TRIVIA: Junctions where two, four track lines diverge

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507020

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The image of Crow Nest Junction … shows a four track railway splitting into two, four track railways. I find the symmetry of it strangely attractive! How many other junctions around the country can we think of with the same layout, either in the past or in the present day?
The signalbox has gone now, hasn't it? I stood on the bridge a few years ago but didn't realise the line to Lostock/Bolton was also four tracks.
I also saw and researched the image of the original Crow Nest Junction last week. It does not in fact show 2 quadruple track railways diverging. With the fast lines of the Pemberton loop on the south side of the formation through Hindley, it shows the double track line to Westhoughton and Bolton diverging from the fast lines and also the double track Dicconson Lane and Hilton House branch, one of 2 routes towards Chorley and Blackburn (the other being the L&NWR Boars Head and Red Rock line from the WCML) simultaneously diverging from the slow lines. Movements in all directions were possible, except there was no access from the Pemberton loop to Dicconson Lane and Hilton House unless there were additional crossovers west of Hindley station. There were never 4 tracks through Westhoughton. I had known 3 routes diverged at Crow Nest Junction but couldn’t for the life of me work out how they would be able to diverge immediately after each other. On a 4 track layout this is easily achieved through the use of 10 diamond crossings, compared to the present 1!

Even the replacement signal box sited on the fast line trackbed is no longer there. I don’t know when that went. What I want to know is whether expresses from Southport to Manchester Victoria that went fast via Atherton used the fast or slow lines through Hindley. I suppose it depends whether they stopped at Wigan Wallgate. I still can’t fathom the original layout at Lostock Junction or platform layout at Bolton, since there were 4 tracks from Lostock Junction to Bolton but not beyond. There were also fast avoiding lines through the middle of Bolton but were there also avoiding lines on the outside? Don’t ask me about Moses Gate goods loops!
Crow Nest Junction certainly doesn't seem to fit the OP's criteria any more. Two lines ('Up Hindley' and 'Down Hindley') towards/from Wigan Wallgate split at Crow Nest Junction. Two lines then head off towards/from Westhoughton (continuation of the 'Up Hindley' and 'Down Hindley') and another two lines towards/from Atherton ('Up Atherton' and 'Down Atherton').

So, when were there last four track lines in the area?
In an old thread, @Springs Branch gave a date of 6 September 1965 for the closure of the fast lines, but that they were not lifted immediately and could be seen partially dismantled through the 1970s.

Was the Atherton line actually built as 4 tracks throughout and not quadrupled later? Following the reduction to 2, the slow lines were retained except through Atherton station where the 2 middle tracks were used until the late 1980s. The slow lines were retained at the Manchester end because only they had a connection with the branch from Agecroft Junction to Pendleton station until the opening of Salford Crescent, but the fast lines were not restored at that time. I can’t help thinking Atherton should be requadrupled to allow fast Wigan services to run that way instead of via Chat Moss.
 
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APT618S

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Holgate Jn York. Just re-watched a Kingfisher DVD of run recorded in the 1980s, and approaching York from the South all is revealed! Much simplified now of course.
Was it definitely 4 to 2 x4 at that date ? Holgate junction crossed my mind but pictures/info I have seen, admittedly before this date, are 6 tracks from the south leading on to 6 tracks into the station with 5 tracks coming off as the avoiding lines.
 

AlbertBeale

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No - just 2 tracks turning off (towards Barnes Bridge) from the 4 at Barnes station. And the 4 heading on west reduce to two immediately after the station. (Hence faster services to Richmond can't overtake stoppers after Barnes.)
 

Sunil_P

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Re. Barnes - sorry I was looking at the first picture on the Crow Nest webpage, not the second!
 

Deepgreen

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Around London -
Clapham Junction where three x four tracks diverge westwards to Wandsworth Town, Earlsfield and Wandsworth Common,
Windmill Bridge Junction has 4 tracks towards Victoria and 4 towards London Bridge.
Just Outside London Bridge (Blue Anchor ?) There is 4 towards New Cross Gate and 6 towards North Kent East Jn
Bickley Jn - there 4 towards St Mary Cray and 4 towards Petts Wood Jn
At Clapham Junction, despite the name, they aren't actually junctions as the routes are separate (i.e. without points at the divergences).
 

zwk500

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At Clapham Junction, despite the name, they aren't actually junctions as the routes are separate (i.e. without points at the divergences).
Not between the 3 4-track routes, but there is a 2+4 junction on the Brighton Lines (falcon jn), and a 2+2+4 divergence on the Windsor side (Ludgate GW Jn, I think?).
 

Deepgreen

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Not between the 3 4-track routes, but there is a 2+4 junction on the Brighton Lines (falcon jn), and a 2+2+4 divergence on the Windsor side (Ludgate GW Jn, I think?).
Pouparts Junction is 4+2. The OP was referring to 4+4 junctions, though, I think. There's also a 4+2 at Balham, plus many others elsewhere.
 

zwk500

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Pouparts Junction is 4+2. The OP was referring to 4+4 junctions, though, I think. There's also a 4+2 at Balham, plus many others elsewhere.
Pouparts is also single lead and a bit further down from Clapham Junction. And yes, the OP was referring to 4+4 junctions but I'm fairly sure we've exhausted that list.
 

Efini92

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The signalbox has gone now, hasn't it? I stood on the bridge a few years ago but didn't realise the line to Lostock/Bolton was also four tracks.
It wasn’t the westhoughton branch was only ever 2 tracks. I think 2 connected with the line from dobb brow to blackrod.
 

Rail Ranger

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Yes the Atherton line was built as four tracks. The line must be fairly unique in that respect. Atherton was the only station on the line to have four platforms. When the fast lines were taken out of use the slow line platforms remained in use at Atherton. Later the track was slewed so that the former up fast and down slow platforms became the present island platform and the former up slow platform was taken out of use.
 

507020

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Yes the Atherton line was built as four tracks. The line must be fairly unique in that respect. Atherton was the only station on the line to have four platforms. When the fast lines were taken out of use the slow line platforms remained in use at Atherton. Later the track was slewed so that the former up fast and down slow platforms became the present island platform and the former up slow platform was taken out of use.
Atherton was not the only station with fast line platforms. Pendleton also had 2 islands. On reduction to 2 tracks, at Atherton, the Down Slow became the Up Atherton and the Up Fast became the Down Atherton, giving 2 side platforms utilising both islands. The track was then slewed again in the 1980s to use the fast line island only, but the inferior slow line alignment to Pendleton was retained despite the closure of the connection to the Bolton line at Agecroft Junction, which the fast lines bypassed.

I noticed a post on here recently where someone claimed no line had ever been built as 4 tracks from opening. Clearly Mr Aspinall had detailed plans for the use of his new express line. The stations with platforms on the slow lines were effectively speculative. I’m assuming goods were able to use all 4 tracks, unless most went via Bolton or Darcy Lever.
 
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