Trivia: Largest settlement in Great Britain which has never had an Intercity rail service

[PTR 444]

Do London Boroughs count?

I don't see a problem with including these. I expect there will be quite a few with populations larger than many provincial cities, albeit few outside Zone 1 which have had an Intercity service

 

[Ken H]

Dudley? Despite having 2 stations with the name in their title they both happen to come under Sandwell council.

Sandwell and Dudley had inter city stops when it first opened.

 

[Ken H]

Southend, Mansfield, Crawley, Burnley.

didnt Alfreton and Mansfield Parkway have some Intercity calls

 

[tbtc]

Glenrothes (38,360)
.
.
(Population figures are estimates for mid-2020 quoted from Wikipedia)

Do you know if that figure includes Markinch (which is sometimes but not always treated as part of Glenrothes, along with Leslie)?

I only ask because it does get a token Inter7City service (on the days when ScotRail can press enough of the HSTs into service, admittedly, so not guaranteed!)

Realtime Trains | 1A71 0530 Edinburgh to Aberdeen | 22/11/2022

Real-time train running information for 1A71 0530 departure from Edinburgh to Aberdeen on 22/11/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

(You also mentioned Dunfermline which I’ve been through on a Voyager but the evening XC service north of Edinburgh only went that way for “maintaining route knowledge” so was non stop…Maybe City status will encourage more stops in future)

 

[duncanp]

Dudley? Despite having 2 stations with the name in their title they both happen to come under Sandwell council.

Sandwell & Dudley is served by Avanti services between Wolverhampton and Euston, as well as Avanti services towards Blackpool North and Edinburgh.

When there was a station in the centre of Dudley, it was served by GWR trains to Paddington, as well as LMS services to Euston.

 

[D6130]

Good god, whatever next? I suppose that would make Waterloo Bank a Regional Express

Hold your horses, young man! @William3000 is perfectly correct. I and many others on here have travelled on 'InterCity' branded services between Liverpool Street, Cambridge, Ely and King's Lynn hauled by class 31, 37, 47 and 86 locomotives. Well before your time though!

 

[Cricketer8for9]

If we’re allowing London Boroughs the there are lots of candidates, indeed there’s probably fewer which do/did have services. City of London, Camden, Islington, Newham, Croydon and Bromley definitely do/did have inter-city calls.

Were any trains out of London Bridge and Charing Cross Inter-City? Similarly Waterloo, but here I think the 125s to connect with Eurostar would count.

 

[Intercity 225]

didnt Alfreton and Mansfield Parkway have some Intercity calls

It did but despite the name it’s a long way from Mansfield itself - it’s even in another county. There were no complaints when it was renamed simply to Alfreton upon the Robin Hood Line being extended to Mansfield.

On that note, Mansfield itself must be one of the largest - a very big town (over 100k population) that’s only been served by local EMR services (and their predecessors) since the station was reopened in 1995.

 

[pompeyfan]

I was going to suggest Chichester, however on googling the population it’s only a surprisingly low 120k, I never knew Southend had such a high population.

I might start a thread shortly along the lines of largest population that is no longer served by XC/IC services, although I’d imagine Brighton would be a clear winner

 

[70014IronDuke]

Woking also. Perhaps Salisbury?

Were the Waterloo - Exeter trains not classed as Inter-City back in 1966 or so?

Anyway, up to 64 it was on a 'main line' route - just nobody was so brand-infatuated in those days.

 

[BeijingDave]

Some people don't know their rail history beyond about a decade.

Cambridge? Dudley? (as Sandwell and Dudley) Both very much on the Intercity schedule in the 1980s, both probably with hourly services as a minimum!

didnt Alfreton and Mansfield Parkway have some Intercity calls

Again, in the 80s, it definitely did.

 

[Strathclyder]

Meanwhile in Scotland:

East Kilbride (73,310)

Beat me to it. As far as population figures are concerned, East Kilbride is Scotland's clear winner here. Was gonna cite Paisley, but then I remembered the Ayr - Glasgow Central - Euston services that ran until the late 80s (usually hauled by 86s/87s, with the occasional 81 or 85 dropping onto the diagram).

 

[D6130]

Beat me to it. As far as population figures are concerned, East Kilbride is Scotland's clear winner here. Was gonna cite Paisley, but then I remembered the Ayr - Glasgow Central - Euston services that ran until the late 80s (usually hauled by 86s/87s, with the occasional 81 or 85 dropping onto the diagram).

Correct....and until closure of the Kilmarnock-Dalry line in 1973, the London-Glasgow via Dumfries sleepers used to call at Paisley Gilmour Street.

 

[D6968]

Some people don't know their rail history beyond about a decade.

Cambridge? Dudley? (as Sandwell and Dudley) Both very much on the Intercity schedule in the 1980s, both probably with hourly services as a minimum!



Again, in the 80s, it definitely did.

But my point is Sandwell and Dudley and Dudley Port are in the borough of Sandwell, not the metropolitan Borough of Dudley, and since Dudley hasn’t a had a station in the town since about 1964, I’d say it has a pretty good shout of one of the largest towns to have not been served by Intercity services since BR started to use the branding on its services!
I think it’s also the largest town to not have a team in the football league.

 

[Strathclyder]

Correct....and until closure of the Kilmarnock-Dalry line in 1973, the London-Glasgow via Dumfries sleepers used to call at Paisley Gilmour Street.

Interesting, didn't know about that one. Cheers.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Hold your horses, young man! @William3000 is perfectly correct. I and many others on here have travelled on 'InterCity' branded services between Liverpool Street, Cambridge, Ely and King's Lynn hauled by class 31, 37, 47 and 86 locomotives. Well before your time though!

I never for once denied it was the case, was merely expressing shock at it.

PS: I might only be a few months off twenty, which seems young to some perhaps, but please try not to use phrases that make it seem as though I’m seven, even if it’s just in jest

 

[THC]

I would say not but it’s not my thread. The Unitary Authority of Southend-on-Sea has a current reported population of 316,000, however the main reason it’s never had an InterCity service is because it’s not on the way to anywhere else, unless you count the North Sea! It does however have 7 trains an hour to London, (was 9 tph pre pandemic and should have gone up to 10 if GAs 4 tph had ever been delivered).

Where is this reported? The 2021 Census reports Southend UA's population as 180,700.

THC

 

[LickeyIncliner]

Hold your horses, young man! @William3000 is perfectly correct. I and many others on here have travelled on 'InterCity' branded services between Liverpool Street, Cambridge, Ely and King's Lynn hauled by class 31, 37, 47 and 86 locomotives. Well before your time though!

...and had dinner in the restaurant car between Liverpool Street and Cambridge

 

[TheBigD]

didnt Alfreton and Mansfield Parkway have some Intercity calls

Again, in the 80s, it definitely did.

The stops were still made by the handful of EMR'S HST services until their withdrawal, 2020 I think.

 

[Intercity 225]

The stops were still made by the handful of EMR'S HST services until their withdrawal, 2020 I think.

They were indeed - I used them several times. It was only a handful of the total HST services though in later years - the ones that went all the way through to Leeds or London via Nottingham.

I still would argue that these don’t count as Mansfield services though - the station formerly known as Alfreton and Mansfield Parkway is a significant distance from Mansfield itself. In fact Sutton In Ashfield is actually closer to the station than Mansfield is.

 

[Oxfordblues]

I lived as a child in Beaumaris, arguably the largest settlement in Wales that never had a railway. There was a branch that ended in a field near Red Wharf Bay, but as Beaumaris was served by steamers from Liverpool via Llandudno it wasn't deemed deserving of a railway. Now everyone drives a car but Telford's Suspension Bridge is closed so getting to the Mainland, ironically via Stephenson's Britannia railway bridge, is currently a challenge.

 

[30907]

Were the Waterloo - Exeter trains not classed as Inter-City back in 1966 or so?

Anyway, up to 64 it was on a 'main line' route - just nobody was so brand-infatuated in those days.

I don't recall it having the label, but it appeared on the earliest Inter-City schematic maps (as did Canterbury/Dover/Folkestone, Brighton, Portsmouth, Southampton and Bournemouth.) - 1982 and 85 maps at:
http://www.projectmapping.co.uk/Reviews/britishrailbriti.html

 

[Birkonian]

By poulation Id say its Birkenhead followed by Southend.

Birkenhead had a mainline G W R. route to Paddington until 1967. I wish it still did.

 

[Millisle]

Meanwhile in Scotland:

East Kilbride (73,310)

Dunfermline (58,508)

Livingston (56,840)

Greenock (41,280)

Glenrothes (38,360)

Paisley, Irvine, Ayr and Kilmarnock have all had InterCity services to and from London in the past.

Did the Euston-Perth sleeper used to stop at Cumbernauld at some stage in the past? I know that it used to stop at Coatbridge Central because I have alighted there a few times in the early 1980s.

(Population figures are estimates for mid-2020 quoted from Wikipedia)

Edinburgh - Inverness trains called at Dunfermline before the closure of the Glenfarg line.

 

[paul1609]

If we’re allowing London Boroughs the there are lots of candidates, indeed there’s probably fewer which do/did have services. City of London, Camden, Islington, Newham, Croydon and Bromley definitely do/did have inter-city calls.

Were any trains out of London Bridge and Charing Cross Inter-City? Similarly Waterloo, but here I think the 125s to connect with Eurostar would count.

Both Victoria and Charing Cross were Westminster. The Vic to Brighton fast services were "Intercity" (see the Solari Indicator in the second bbc london to brighton in 4 mins film.) Gatwick Express was "intetcity" into privatisation.
CrossCountry trains called at Clapham Junction (Battersea) and Kensington

 

[Steddenm]

Isn't Euston in the London Borough of Camden?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am almost certain Virgin Trains served Northampton at one point. Certainly during engineering works, but possibly also a late evening service and an early morning one daily at one point.

 

[jackot]

I was going to suggest Chichester, however on googling the population it’s only a surprisingly low 120k, I never knew Southend had such a high population.

I might start a thread shortly along the lines of largest population that is no longer served by XC/IC services, although I’d imagine Brighton would be a clear winner

I was going to the say the same. Most of the West Coastway has never had a true IC service AFAIK

 

[LUYMun]

Farnborough, Hampshire

 

[Mag_seven]

I am almost certain Virgin Trains served Northampton at one point. Certainly during engineering works, but possibly also a late evening service and an early morning one daily at one point.

Intercity West Coast did - there was a mid morning Euston Manchester via Northampton. Can't recall which years but mid / late 80s would seem about right.