Trivia: 'Local' bus routes that extend into another county

[PeterC]

TfL has done its best to eradicate bus routes which cross over the Greater London boundary.

(Just check out the 'Bus Berlin Wall' that exists in Waltham Cross. 'Country' routes which used to cross into Greater London, such as the 310, have been cut back to terminate at Waltham Cross. Whilst TfL routes that had for decades gone beyond Waltham Cross to Upshire, Epping or Hammond Street no longer do so.)

Notable exceptions are the 81 to Slough and the 465 to Dorking.

Route 375 still runs to Passingford Bridge probably because it is the first place where a bus serving Havering atte Bower can be turned.

 

[OwlMan]

Stagecoach service 48 runs from Coventry (West Midlands) through Warwickshire and then to Leicestershire (to Leicester) or to Staffordshire (to Tamworth). The DeCourcey X6 also tavels from West Midlands through Warwickshire to Leicestershire.

 

[mmh]

TfL has done its best to eradicate bus routes which cross over the Greater London boundary.

(Just check out the 'Bus Berlin Wall' that exists in Waltham Cross. 'Country' routes which used to cross into Greater London, such as the 310, have been cut back to terminate at Waltham Cross. Whilst TfL routes that had for decades gone beyond Waltham Cross to Upshire, Epping or Hammond Street no longer do so.)

Notable exceptions are the 81 to Slough and the 465 to Dorking.

I think Croydon's unusual for still having a few that go outside Greater London (most by not very far, though) - the 166 to Banstead, 403 to Warlingham, 405 to Redhill, 407 to Caterham and 466 to Caterham-on-the-hill.

 

[Deerfold]

You have just reminded me.The 310 used to go Enfield and i used to catch it to work .Then Tfl said no more Arriva aquamarine in London .It meant i had to catch 2 buses to get to work .We protested but Tfl just shrugged us off.I just gave up the job it was not worth it anymore.This is what i fear for Greater Manchester with franchising.

Are you sure that was a TfL decision? They're not usually bothered about the colours of buses which are not running their services. First are unmolested with their blue 7s into Heathrow, Uno run bright pink buses on several routes, including the 610 to Enfield.
EoS run orange buses into London from Waltham Cross.
Arriva Kent seem to have no problem running aquamarine buses on the 477.
The 812 runs around Islington and is bright yellow.
There are several other examples.

 

[northwichcat]

It be probably be easier to list the Chester routes which don't run in to North Wales, Merseyside or Shropshire than all the ones that do.

Warrington, Altrincham, Macclesfield, Buxton, Glossop and Manchester Airport all have a few bus routes extending in to another county.

And that's just thinking of one small part of the country.

 

[Mwanesh]

Are you sure that was a TfL decision? They're not usually bothered about the colours of buses which are not running their services. First are unmolested with their blue 7s into Heathrow, Uno run bright pink buses on several routes, including the 610 to Enfield.
EoS run orange buses into London from Waltham Cross.
Arriva Kent seem to have no problem running aquamarine buses on the 477.
The 812 runs around Islington and is bright yellow.
There are several other examples.

It was a Tfl decision .There was an uproar at the time .One of the Tfl routes was now going as far as Waltham Cross.As stated earlier Waltham Cross is just a few yards from the London boundary.I even asked Arriva and they directed me to Tfl for an explanation.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Severn Express actually runs between two different countries! (Newport to Bristol).

There's also the X95 between Carlisle and Edinburgh, is there not?

 

[BradK2017]

West Yorks have a few Local services that extend into other countys,most having a frequent "core" section within 1 county before going into the other

- Transdev 7,36,66,Connections X52 & Firsts X84 Into North Yorkshire
- Stagecoach 59 into South Yorkshire
- First 184 into Greater Manchester
- Transdev M4 Into Lancashire

 

[Dentonian]

It be probably be easier to list the Chester routes which don't run in to North Wales, Merseyside or Shropshire than all the ones that do.

Warrington, Altrincham, Macclesfield, Buxton, Glossop and Manchester Airport all have a few bus routes extending in to another county.

And that's just thinking of one small part of the country.

Bear in mind that Manchester Airport is right on the GM/Cheshire border; the centre of Alty is barely a mile from the same border and Glossop is not only less than two miles from GM it is physically remote from the rest of Derbyshire and most of High Peak.

 

[Dentonian]

You have just reminded me.The 310 used to go Enfield and i used to catch it to work .Then Tfl said no more Arriva aquamarine in London .It meant i had to catch 2 buses to get to work .We protested but Tfl just shrugged us off.I just gave up the job it was not worth it anymore.This is what i fear for Greater Manchester with franchising.

Based on current thinking it is very unlikely any Franchising in GM would be so strict geographically. I suspect it will depend on route mileage either side of boundaries, but I believe current thinking is that only cross boundary services substantially in GM would be franchised. Even then, a lot of discussion would go on with relevant operators and LAs.

 

[Dentonian]

Jeez - they’ll be thousands.

In major conurbations, there’s loads as local services run from Manchester into Trafford or Salford,

”

Interesting that only the two (three if you include Stockport also mentioned) most southerly GM boroughs are mentioned. Manchester has bus links to all 9 neighbouring GM boroughs through a myriad of routes. Albeit varying amounts and probably the lowest ever total headways (except possibly, Salford).

 

[158756]

Transdev:
Several Lancashire-Greater Manchester routes.

Nine by my count.
The X43 runs into North Yorkshire as well.

 

[A0]

Are you sure that was a TfL decision? They're not usually bothered about the colours of buses which are not running their services. First are unmolested with their blue 7s into Heathrow, Uno run bright pink buses on several routes, including the 610 to Enfield.
EoS run orange buses into London from Waltham Cross.
Arriva Kent seem to have no problem running aquamarine buses on the 477.
The 812 runs around Islington and is bright yellow.
There are several other examples.

But none of those are TFL routes.

Heathrow's long been a crossover pount between TFL and non TFL services.

The EOS example is effectively a shopper's service emanating from Essex, it's also relatively low frequency.

The 812 is a LA service. The rest run mainly in Herts / Essex.

The 477 is mainly in Kent.

I think the Waltham X / Enfield issue is for many years both TFL and non TFL services have run that route. TFL want their ticketing and buses in their area - I can believe they forced Arriva to curtail at Waltham X.

 

[DunsBus]

Severn Express actually runs between two different countries! (Newport to Bristol).

There's also the X95 between Carlisle and Edinburgh, is there not?

The one X95 journey which still runs through end-to-end, from Edinburgh to Carlisle, serves four unitaries (City of Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scottish Borders, Dumfries & Galloway) and one county (Cumbria).

The 100-102 group of services between Edinburgh and Dumfries starts off in City of Edinburgh, passes through Midlothian, Scottish Borders and South Lanarkshire, and finishes in Dumfries & Galloway.

 

[185143]

Nine by my count.
The X43 runs into North Yorkshire as well.

I've been on the X43 from Skipton... why did I not think of that myself!

 

[Deerfold]

But none of those are TFL routes.

I think the Waltham X / Enfield issue is for many years both TFL and non TFL services have run that route. TFL want their ticketing and buses in their area - I can believe they forced Arriva to curtail at Waltham X.

No, and the 310/311 weren't TfL routes either. Why was this an issue for this route, but none of the others I listed?

In 2004, Arriva were accepting most TfL tickets on the route - as were many other cross-boundary TfL routes. Many bus companies dropped these as TfL fare increases were well below those of commercial bus companies.

http://mjcarchive.www.idnet.com/times/300to349/310-WalthamX_311-WalthamX 20040516 5670.pdf

Didn't Arriva withdraw all but the peak services first?

 

[transmanche]

Route 375 still runs to Passingford Bridge probably because it is the first place where a bus serving Havering atte Bower can be turned.

The 375 is actually a relatively recent addition to the TfL network (about 2008) and only requires one bus.

 

[transmanche]

Are you sure that was a TfL decision? They're not usually bothered about the colours of buses which are not running their services.

See post #29, the buses on the 310 were red anyway.

 

[Deerfold]

See post #29, the buses on the 310 were red anyway.

I'd seen that. So very like the 84 - which still runs, but stopped accepting TfL tickets.

 

[DavidGrain]

Someone has already mentioned West Midlands route no. 9. This was an amalgamation of Birmingham Corporation route 9 City Centre to Quinton via Bearwood and Midland Red route 130 Birmingham Stourbridge although the route has changed through Quinton. In Birmingham Corporation days the outward journey to Quinton was solely within Warwickshire but the return journey ran through Worcestershire and Staffordshire which was Midland Red territory. This was because the country boundaries ran along the centre of Hagley Road West. This was why the Midland Red did not charge protective fares beyond Bearwood and sometimes the Midland Red fares were cheaper than Birmingham Corporation fares. The whole of the route is now entirely within the West Midlands County.

 

[Statto]

The 310 being withdrawn from Enfield means there's no direct bus from Waltham Cross to Enfield via Ponders End, the direct bus Waltham Cross to Enfield goes via the Great Cambridge Road, if you want to go Waltham Cross to Enfield via Ponders End you have to get the 279, to anywhere from Hertford Road Ordnance Road to Ponders End then 121, or from Ponders End 121, 191, 307, 313

 

[northwichcat]

Bear in mind that Manchester Airport is right on the GM/Cheshire border; the centre of Alty is barely a mile from the same border and Glossop is not only less than two miles from GM it is physically remote from the rest of Derbyshire and most of High Peak.

Which is why it would be stupid to not have cross border services and why cross border services are very common and creating a comprehensive list of each one will result in an extremely long thread!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Which is why it would be stupid to not have cross border services and why cross border services are very common and creating a comprehensive list of each one will result in an extremely long thread!

And indeed, many towns were built on rivers that also acted as county boundaries and then we have the proliferation of unitary authorities.

This is impressively an exercise in parochialism allied with generalisation (no mean feat).

My local bus goes up a hill though not very steep. Does anyone else know a bus service that goes up a not very steep hill?

Discuss

 

[Dentonian]

And indeed, many towns were built on rivers that also acted as county boundaries and then we have the proliferation of unitary authorities.

This is impressively an exercise in parochialism allied with generalisation (no mean feat).

My local bus goes up a hill though not very steep. Does anyone else know a bus service that goes up a not very steep hill?

Discuss

Funny you should say that! Although more relevant to other threads. For the first 44 years of my life, I lived on a residential estate which was seperated from the nearest rail station (coincidentally national average of of 1.5 miles/2.7km from home) by a steep river valley that formed the old border between Lancashire and Cheshire. All part of Tameside MBC now, though.

 

[Dai Corner]

I don't think we've had the Stagecoach South Wales X3 which serves Herefordshire (in England), Monmouthshire, Torfaen, Newport and Cardiff?

 

[robertclark125]

Stagecoach East Scotland route 81 is unusual in that it serves another local authority area, but does not serve any bus stops in that area. The section in question is from just north of Ballingry, to just west of the bridge that takes the road over the old westfield railway line, that served the westfield power plant and opencast. The distance of the section, which is in Perth and Kinross, is only about 500 metres at the most. But, on the two roads in question, there are no bus stops.

Then I should mention also Stagecoach east Scotland route 201, Glenrothes -Scotlandwell - Milnathort - Kinross, which as well as servine Fife, again serves Perth and Kinross, but this time serving bus stops.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I don't think we've had the Stagecoach South Wales X3 which serves Herefordshire (in England), Monmouthshire, Torfaen, Newport and Cardiff?

We did on the “multiple local authorities for a service to travel through” thread just a few weeks ago!

 

[AnonymousUser1]

An example: The Grimsby/Cleethorpes and North East Lincolnshire area local Stagecoach buses mainly operate under the 'Simplibus' brand. There is a bus route numbered 5 which has extensions outside of Grimsby to Immingham and the nearby MIC plant. However, the furthest extension on this route is actually to a village called South Killingholme which is just over the border in North Lincolnshire and looking at the timetable, South Killingholme has a fairly regular connection with Grimsby in this way, Monday to Saturday, (although the route still runs as far as Immingham on Sundays).

Can anybody here come up with a similar example?

NE lincs and Norther lincs are unitary districts, the services remain entirely within one county Lincolnshire, Parts of Lindsey

 

[transmanche]

I have to remind you that Waltham Cross is actually in Hertfordshire, albeit only by a few hundred yards.

Waltham Cross Bus Station is probably less than 300m from the boundary. Waltham Cross was traditionally very much an LT red bus area. It even used to be served by four LT trolleybus routes (and before that, trams).

In many ways, it's surprising that the area wasn't included in Greater London. It was even part of the Met Police District until 2000.

 

[Dai Corner]

We did on the “multiple local authorities for a service to travel through” thread just a few weeks ago!

OK, I'll give you the X3, but offer the X4 Cardiff-Abergavenny which stops in Cardiff, Rhondda Cynon Taff, Merthyr Tydfil, Blaenau Gwent and Monmouthshire and also passes through Caerphilly.

I think these examples just reflect the number of small authorities in South Wales though.