Trivia: Longest possible journey entirely on 25kV without reversing?

[MadMac]

Talk on another thread about getting from Manchester to King's Cross got me thinking about this. I think you'd be hard pushed to beat this one:

Euston-Northampton-Birmingham-Stoke-Manchester-Preston-Motherwell-Coatbridge-Gartcosh-Cowlairs-Carmuirs-Edinburgh-King's Cross.

 

[Richard Scott]

Surely you could start at Kings Lynn, take North London Line across and pick up West Coast there? Is there any way across from HS1? If so could start in France!

 

[gnolife]

Is there a line between the North London line and the West Coast Mainline at Willesden Junction? If there is, you'd be able to do Norwich - Stratford - Willesden - Northampton then as MadMac put?

 

[Altfish]

I'm sure there is as there are Felixstowe to Trafford Park workings with a pair of class 86s

 

[AM9]

Surely you could start at Kings Lynn, take North London Line across and pick up West Coast there? Is there any way across from HS1? If so could start in France!

Yes, you can get there via the GOBlin and the goods loops onto HS1 at Dagenham Dock, where it rises from the tunnel there.

Is there a line between the North London line and the West Coast Mainline at Willesden Junction? If there is, you'd be able to do Norwich - Stratford - Willesden - Northampton then as MadMac put?

Yes there is a two track chord that bypasses Willsden Junction LL station to join the WCML (single lead) just before Harlesden Station.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Yes, you can get there via the GOBlin and the goods loops onto HS1 at Dagenham Dock, where it rises from the tunnel there.



Yes there is a two track chord that bypasses Willsden Junction LL station to join the WCML (single lead) just before Harlesden Station.

Then you can start on the AVE in Spain

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Yes there is an electrified link from HS1 to the WCML using the NLL.
Also one from the international platforms at St Pancras.
As far as I know they have never been used, certainly not by passenger trains.
Theoretically, a Eurostar (373) set could go King's Cross-Edinburgh-Falkirk-Motherwell-Manchester-Birmingham-Willesden-NLL-HS1-Channel Tunnel and on to the limit of Eurostar capability in Europe.
It would run into trouble with the German/Swiss/Italian systems, so maybe Menton on the Riviera would be the practical limit.
That's assuming clearance is available for the full length of the ECML/WCML which might be tricky.
Testing on the WCML of the NoL sets only covered Manchester-Bletchley, and ECML services were limited to King's Cross-York/Leeds.

Out of interest, the GWML electrification is still isolated from the WCML/ECML system, with a short gap at Acton-Acton Wells.

 

[Dr_Paul]

Yes there is a two track chord that bypasses Willesden Junction LL station to join the WCML (single lead) just before Harlesden Station.

Has that been electrified? It never used to be, but I haven't been that way on the NLL for some years, so it may have been electrified in the meantime. If it hasn't, one can always go from Camden Road on to the WCML via Primrose Hill; I'm pretty sure that's how electric-hauled goods services get from Stratford to the WCML.

 

[AM9]

Yes there is an electrified link from HS1 to the WCML using the NLL.

There is now two routes from Willsden Junction: 1) via the NLL to stratford then along to Forest gate, then up the link to Woodgrange park, over the Barking flyover to the Tilbury line and join HS1 at Ripple Lane yard. 2) the same as above but take the GOBlin from Gospel Oak to Barking flyover, (which is now fully electriified).

Also one from the international platforms at St Pancras.
As far as I know they have never been used, certainly not by passenger trains.

I think that the link from the NLL to HS1 points away from the station and links some distance away from the platforms.

 

[Mag_seven]

Out of interest, the GWML electrification is still isolated from the WCML/ECML system, with a short gap at Acton-Acton Wells.

That would be a complete no brainer to electrify - mind you we said that about Gospel Oak to Barking!

 

[306024]

Start and finish in Norwich (further than Kings Lynn) via Stratford, Edinburgh, WCML and Willesden may be a fair run, with obscure diversions through Birmingham to increase the mileage.

 

[ocelocelot]

If you're allowed to revisit a section of track you could do an infinitely long journey around Birmingham for example. Can't actually find any other examples - I presume there are some?

 

[DanTrain]

Yes there is an electrified link from HS1 to the WCML using the NLL.
Also one from the international platforms at St Pancras.
As far as I know they have never been used, certainly not by passenger trains.
Theoretically, a Eurostar (373) set could go King's Cross-Edinburgh-Falkirk-Motherwell-Manchester-Birmingham-Willesden-NLL-HS1-Channel Tunnel and on to the limit of Eurostar capability in Europe.
It would run into trouble with the German/Swiss/Italian systems, so maybe Menton on the Riviera would be the practical limit.
That's assuming clearance is available for the full length of the ECML/WCML which might be tricky.
Testing on the WCML of the NoL sets only covered Manchester-Bletchley, and ECML services were limited to King's Cross-York/Leeds.

Out of interest, the GWML electrification is still isolated from the WCML/ECML system, with a short gap at Acton-Acton Wells.

I'd imagine a 374 could get a significant way into Europe. It can certaintlyoperate in Germany, so what about Kings Cross - Edinburgh - Motherwell - Manchester - Birmingham - Willesden - Camden Road - HS1 - Channel Tunnel - Toulouse (via Marne-la-Valée?) - Narbonne - Montpelier - Nimes - Lyon - south of Dijon - Mulhouse - Strasbourg and onwards into Germany. I'm sure you could keep a 374 busy for days on end pootling round Germany .

 

[Agent_Squash]

I'd imagine a 374 could get a significant way into Europe. It can certaintlyoperate in Germany, so what about Kings Cross - Edinburgh - Motherwell - Manchester - Birmingham - Willesden - Camden Road - HS1 - Channel Tunnel - Toulouse (via Marne-la-Valée?) - Narbonne - Montpelier - Nimes - Lyon - south of Dijon - Mulhouse - Strasbourg and onwards into Germany. I'm sure you could keep a 374 busy for days on end pootling round Germany .

374s don't fit UK gauge!

 

[DanTrain]

374s don't fit UK gauge!

Oh yeah, hadn’t realised that . Still longer than anything in the UK.

 

[Hophead]

I'd imagine a 374 could get a significant way into Europe. It can certaintlyoperate in Germany, so what about Kings Cross - Edinburgh - Motherwell - Manchester - Birmingham - Willesden - Camden Road - HS1 - Channel Tunnel - Toulouse (via Marne-la-Valée?) - Narbonne - Montpelier - Nimes - Lyon - south of Dijon - Mulhouse - Strasbourg and onwards into Germany. I'm sure you could keep a 374 busy for days on end pootling round Germany .

Not at 25kV you couldn't!

 

[Richard Scott]

Then you can start on the AVE in Spain

May fall foul of 1500V DC in France?

 

[gazthomas]

Oh yeah, hadn’t realised that . Still longer than anything in the UK.

Length nothing to do with gauge

 

[DanTrain]

Not at 25kV you couldn't!

Oh, forgot about that restriction!

 

[DanTrain]

Length nothing to do with gauge

I mean the route not the train!

 

[rower40]

If you're allowed to revisit a section of track you could do an infinitely long journey around Birmingham for example. Can't actually find any other examples - I presume there are some?

Newcastle Central, High Level Bridge Junction, Greensfield Junction, King Edward Bridge East Junction, King Edward Bridge North Junction, Newcastle Central. And repeat.
Electrified to provide a diversionary route, and a means to turn an electric train round.

 

[gazthomas]

This is true trivia

 

[Kite159]

Something like Norwich towards Stratford, onto the ECML using the Canonbury curve, head to Scotland (Edinburgh - Falkirk - Croy - Springburn - Coatbridge Central - back towards London doing some bits around Manchester & Birmingham. Join the NLL around Willesden to go on the Goblin towards Barking to end at Shoeburyness

 

[InOban]

If you want a larger circle you can start from Carmuirs and go down the ECML across by Camden Road and back up the WCML to Mossend and Greenhill Lower to your starting point.

How far is it from Ayr to the line which cuts across from near Shields Road to Polmadie? How about Ayr, Polmadie, Holytown Shotts ECML, back up the WCML to Mossend and Dunblane. This crosses itself at Holytown, but at right angles.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

May fall foul of 1500V DC in France?

Certain Eurostar 373s can run on 1.5kV DC and French classic signalling - the ones that run to Avignon/Marseille.
It will be the signalling/train protection systems that will prevent onward running beyond France, as well as supply voltage.
Not impossible to fix, but there is a practical limit to the number of alternative systems that can be supported.
I don't believe 373s have ETCS capability, so will not work on most recently-built lines.
Don't know about 374s.

 

[Journeyman]

I don't believe 373s have ETCS capability, so will not work on most recently-built lines.
Don't know about 374s.

Apparently it's impossible to fit ETCS to the 373s, as there's insufficient space for the equipment, so they're limited to Paris/Brussels services for that reason. 374s have ETCS provision in the design, but I don't know if it's actually operational yet.

 

[AlastairFraser]

May fall foul of 1500V DC in France?

Ahh yes, we've got to wait for the Montpelllier to Perpignan TGV to be built. In that case, I'd say Nimes.

 

[Steve Harris]

Ahh yes, we've got to wait for the Montpelllier to Perpignan TGV to be built. In that case, I'd say Nimes.

Don't you mean LGV ? (Line Grand Vitesse).

 

[DPWH]

The OP said 25kV. That rules out any OHLE not to this voltage.

 

[deltic08]

I don't think anybody has mentioned Kings Cross incline to Willesden via NLL. That completes the loop from Central Scotland which means infinite distance as a train could go round and round ad infinitum.