TRIVIA: Rover and ranger tickets that are not valid where you'd expect them to be valid (or are valid where you wouldn't expect them to be valid)

AM9

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I think that this has been highlighted before as being confusing for passengers. The Lancashire Day Ranger is only valid between Liverpool and Manchester (the two big cities in the old county of Lancashire) via Earlestown, and not via Warrington.

The extended version of the Ffestiniog Round Robin is actually available from stations a little beyond Liverpool/Manchester/Birmingham that you would never know about if you relied on the official validity map e.g. Hightown.
Way back in 2015, in the dying days of Senior Railcards enabling off-peak tickets on early M-F northbound (then) VT WCML services, I travelled Watford to Piccadilly and had a day in Lancashire using a Lancashire Day Ranger. I was a bit late arriving at Lime Street and just missed a Chat Moss train across to Piccadilly to catch the Pendolino back down south. I saw that there was an EMT Norwich service leaving soon so I went to the Northern Booking office, showed them my Ranger and asked for a single ticket to Manchester. They insisted that my Lancashire Ranger was valid on the CLC line* and said that I didn't need to buy another ticket. Despite me questioning that, they reiterated that it was OK. So I got on the EMT train which was crowded to standing. Some way into the journey the guard passed through so I put the ticket and my Senior card on the table and looked away out of the window. He gave it a nod and a 'thank you' so it was back in my pocket asap. I saved about £8 or £9 but wouldn't have been very happy having to convince a guard that the booking office thought that it was valid.

* The most southerly line that the Lancashire Ranger is valid on is the Chat Moss. The Cheshire Ranger is valid on both the Chat Moss and the CLC.
 
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Deerfold

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Merseyside PTE Saveaways are valid outside Merseyside to Ormskirk and Chester, where the electric services terminate. Applying similar logic, why isn’t the West Yorkshire DaySaver valid all the way to Skipton?
It is valid to Darton in South Yorkshire. The South Yorkshire equivalent is valid to Moorthorpe, South Elmsall and Denby Dale in West Yorkshire.
 

Djgr

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Merseyside PTE Saveaways are valid outside Merseyside to Ormskirk and Chester, where the electric services terminate. Applying similar logic, why isn’t the West Yorkshire DaySaver valid all the way to Skipton?
and Ellesmere Port!
 

swt_passenger

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I think there was a problem with the maps for the Severn and Solent products not including Fareham to Eastleigh, which theoretically rules out use on a couple of GWR Portsmouth - Cardiff route services that would otherwise be valid?
 
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Valid from 9.30. The 9.29 from Grindleford seems to be OK if ticket bought on train, presumably because it will be be timed a minute or two later. Makes that train quite popular into Manchester and helps sell tickets from Dore and Sheffield to Grindleford and Hathersage to pick up a Wayfarer from there!
A few years ago I was on a westbound stopper on the Hope Valley line around Saturday lunchtime. The conductor was doing brisk business selling "Day Return to Manchester please", one after another to what looked like Saturday shoppers.

For travellers from the eastern end of the line, a GM Wayfarer would have been cheaper than the simple Off-Peak Day Return to Piccadilly, with the benefit of tram and bus travel within Manchester thrown in.

Presumably most of these punters either didn't know or didn't care about the benefits of a free tram ride between Piccadilly and the shops for a couple of £ less.
 

Parallel

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I was quite surprised to see that the Heart of Wessex day ranger was valid on the Severn Beach line and between Westbury and Bristol Parkway via Melksham and Swindon! It’s also valid from Westbury to Pewsey.
 
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JonathanH

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I was quite surprised to see that the Heart of Wales day ranger was valid on the Severn Beach line and between Westbury and Bristol Parkway via Melksham and Swindon! It’s also valid from Westbury to Pewsey.
That would be surprising. I think you mean Heart of Wessex.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Many of the Rover/Ranger products date from BR Regions/Sectors and are essentially a Regional Railways product, to boost local travel.
They are often linked to local government travel/transport policies rather than the rail network, and local government has some odd boundaries.
Intercity (and NSE for that matter) were never very keen, with their marketing focused elsewhere.
So strategic gaps were created on the Rover/Ranger maps to prevent local travel on many inter-city services, plus time restrictions to limit peak travel.
Those gaps still apply, with most TOCs generally uninterested in the zonal travel market (Scotrail/TfW excepted), with minimal promotion.
I suppose things might change/improve under GBR, depending on how the regionalisation is implemented.
But I hope we don't get more of the North Wales Rover type, with the zones strictly based on county boundaries which are hopeless for rail travel purposes.
Denbighshire has all of 8 miles of railway (Rhyl, Prestatyn) yet counts as a separate zone just like Gwynedd does with something like 55 miles.
 

CaptainHaddock

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Valid from 9.30. The 9.29 from Grindleford seems to be OK if ticket bought on train, presumably because it will be be timed a minute or two later. Makes that train quite popular into Manchester and helps sell tickets from Dore and Sheffield to Grindleford and Hathersage to pick up a Wayfarer from there!

Is there a way of buying GM Wayfarers in advance outside of the GM area?
Coming from Sheffield I'd like to take advantage of this ticket but if I'd have to get the 0814 to Grindleford, wait an hour then board the 0929 and buy a Wayfarer on the train it would be more trouble than it's worth!
 

Bletchleyite

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Is there a way of buying GM Wayfarers in advance outside of the GM area?
Coming from Sheffield I'd like to take advantage of this ticket but if I'd have to get the 0814 to Grindleford, wait an hour then board the 0929 and buy a Wayfarer on the train it would be more trouble than it's worth!

Sheffield isn't gated, so you could (at risk of being told no) just go to the train there and ask the guard before boarding if he can sell you one. Obviously if he refuses you can't then board and must go to the booking office/TVM/your phone and buy a regular ticket if you want to.

This:

suggests they can.

OTOH if you do end up spending an hour at Grindleford the cafe is excellent. Proper classic greasy spoon with pint mugs of tea. Though it doesn't open until 9.
 

S&CLER

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Is there a way of buying GM Wayfarers in advance outside of the GM area?
Coming from Sheffield I'd like to take advantage of this ticket but if I'd have to get the 0814 to Grindleford, wait an hour then board the 0929 and buy a Wayfarer on the train it would be more trouble than it's worth!
I've never had any trouble buying GM Wayfarers and other rovers and rangers from the booking office at Southport, and you ought to be able to buy them at Sheffield. Just ask the clerk to go the rovers and rangers page and look down the list for GM Wayfarer (or GM Conc Wayfarer if you are over 60). Years ago when the GM Wayfarer was a scratch card, you could order them by post from an office at Wythenshawe bus station. I used to order ten at a time and then use them on the spur of the moment if the weather looked promising. Much easier now.
PS Southport still issues credit card style tickets (long may it do so); maybe Sheffield uses bog-roll paper, but this shouldn't make any difference to a Wayfarer. A ticket is a ticket, whatever its format. Note the restriction that you can only buy up to 3 days in advance of travel.
 
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Llandudno

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I've never had any trouble buying GM Wayfarers and other rovers and rangers from the booking office at Southport, and you ought to be able to buy them at Sheffield. Just ask the clerk to go the rovers and rangers page and look down the list for GM Wayfarer (or GM Conc Wayfarer if you are over 60). Years ago when the GM Wayfarer was a scratch card, you could order them by post from an office at Wythenshawe bus station. I used to order ten at a time and then use them on the spur of the moment if the weather looked promising. Much easier now.
PS Southport still issues credit card style tickets (long may it do so); maybe Sheffield uses bog-roll paper, but this shouldn't make any difference to a Wayfarer. A ticket is a ticket, whatever its format. Note the restriction that you can only buy up to 3 days in advance of travel.
The Sheffield Booking Office refuses to sell TfGM Wayfarers, I have tried numerous times even quoting ticket codes etc.

The last time I tried I asked the surly booking clerk if I could buy a return to Grindleford and buy a Wayfarer on board the train - answer yes!

Not so sure that this would work on a train that doesn’t stop at Grindleford though, as I doubt that an EMR/TPE guard would sell you a Wayfarer on an express train. Although if you are in possession of a day return to Grindleford and a TfGM Wayfarer you can make a through Sheffield to Manchester journey on an express train!

NB There are such issues purchasing a TfGM Wayfarer from Chesterfield station booking office!

The concessionary TfGM Wayfarer may only be purchased by those of statutory pension age, so I guess now 65+, whereas the concessionary Derbyshire Wayfarer is valid at 60
 

Mcr Warrior

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Llandudno said:
The Sheffield Booking Office refuses to sell TfGM Wayfarers, I have tried numerous times even quoting ticket codes etc.

Sheffield booking office have been notorious, over the years, for refusing to sell certain ticket. Is this still the case?

Llandudno said:
The concessionary TfGM Wayfarer may only be purchased by those of statutory pension age, so I guess now 65+, whereas the concessionary Derbyshire Wayfarer is valid at 60

Essentially yes, a TfGM Concession Wayfarer ticket can only be used by holders of English National Concessionary Travel Passes for people of state pension age and disabled people.
 

AM9

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Essentially yes, a TfGM Concession Wayfarer ticket can only be used by holders of English National Concessionary Travel Passes for people of state pension age and disabled people.
Can a holder of any ENCTS pass purchase a Wayfarer ticket or is it restricted to ENCTS passes issued by TfGM as their website is unclear?
 

Killingworth

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The Sheffield Booking Office refuses to sell TfGM Wayfarers, I have tried numerous times even quoting ticket codes etc.

The last time I tried I asked the surly booking clerk if I could buy a return to Grindleford and buy a Wayfarer on board the train - answer yes!
That's possibly because TfGM don't want them sold further afield. The availability to Grindleford is perhaps for Greater Manchester people to get out into the Peak District rather than subsidising South Yorkshire folk on inter-city journeys.

Where do they draw the line? I'd like the line drawn just north of Dore station. The old Derbyshire boundary until 1934 was the stream at the bottom of the station master's garden!
 

The exile

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The Freedom Travelpass ( former county of Avon) is valid for train travel from Pilning to Bristol etc - but you cannot appaently use it to get to Pilning by train from Bristol as to do that requires doubling back from Severn Tunnel Junction!
 

172007

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West Midlands Day Ranger is valid out to Gobowen (less than three miles from Wales) and Hereford!
Presumably it's due to Shrewsbury and Hereford being the limits of WMT's stoppers, but still quite a trek!
You are confusing the County of West Midlands with the geographical description of one side of mid England being East and one West Midlands I think.
 

Kite159

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Last month I was at Crewe with some time between trains, so popped to the ticket office to get a GM Wayfarer for later in the day [just to save me some time when I got to Manchester] and it was sold with a smile from the ticket office. I was expecting it to be a bit like Sheffield and not sell it because like Sheffield it can be used with a ticket to Holmes Chapel on a non-stop train to cut the cost of a return to Manchester down
 

AY1975

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Many of the Rover/Ranger products date from BR Regions/Sectors and are essentially a Regional Railways product, to boost local travel.
They are often linked to local government travel/transport policies rather than the rail network, and local government has some odd boundaries.
Intercity (and NSE for that matter) were never very keen, with their marketing focused elsewhere.
So strategic gaps were created on the Rover/Ranger maps to prevent local travel on many inter-city services, plus time restrictions to limit peak travel.
Those gaps still apply, with most TOCs generally uninterested in the zonal travel market (Scotrail/TfW excepted), with minimal promotion.
That might explain why when it was first introduced in about the mid-1980s, the Derbyshire Wayfarer (which was originally called the Derbyshire Day Discoverer) wasn't valid on trains between Chesterfield and Derby, as that route was (and still is) served almost exclusively by intercity rather than regional trains unlike most other routes where it is valid, so BR probably thought allowing it on that route could unfairly restrict seating availability for passengers travelling longer distances such as to and from London on Midland Main Line trains or to or from Scotland, the North-East or the South-West on cross-country trains.

It was always valid between Alfreton (or Langley Mill once it reopened in 1986) and Sheffield, though, so there was nothing to stop people using it on intercity trains between Chesterfield and Sheffield.
The Derbyshire Wayfarer is valid across the entirety of Derbyshire's rail network, as you might expect. It is also valid to Uttoxeter and Burton-on-Trent (both in Staffordshire) and Sheffield (in South Yorkshire).
Yes, and it's also valid on most buses within Derbyshire. You can even use it to go by bus to or from Leek (Staffordshire) and Macclesfield (Cheshire) as well as Burton-on-Trent, Sheffield and Uttoxeter.

Sheffield is the hub of the bus and rail networks serving much of north and north-west Derbyshire, and some journeys that both start and finish in Derbyshire involve a change of buses or trains or between bus and train in Sheffield (e.g. Ilkeston, Langley Mill, Alfreton, Chesterfield or Dronfield to any station in the Hope Valley between Sheffield and New Mills Central). It therefore makes sense for it to be valid to Sheffield.
Good point - that bit of the Hadfield line has always been treated as being in Greater Manchester for ticketing purposes.
I am fairly sure that the Derbyshire Wayfarer/Day Discoverer was valid on trains between Dinting and Glossop/Hadfield when it was first introduced despite that bit of the line still being within the Greater Manchester PTE (now Transport for Greater Manchester) supported area. I seem to remember using one to travel by train from Glossop to Dinting to get to the now long-gone Dinting Railway Centre in about 1986.

It is valid on the Buxton line between New Mills Newtown and Buxton, but I am fairly sure that that's outside the TfGM supported area.
 
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I've always felt that the Oxfordshire Day Ranger should have its' validity extended to Bicester North/Village or even Haddenham & Thame.

The Oxfordshire Day Ranger used to be valid to Bicester Town but was removed when the line closed for the lengthy period of rebuilding and its operation transferred to Chiltern. When the line re-opened, the Ranger validity was not reinstated.
 

HSP 2

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Is there a way of buying GM Wayfarers in advance outside of the GM area?
Coming from Sheffield I'd like to take advantage of this ticket but if I'd have to get the 0814 to Grindleford, wait an hour then board the 0929 and buy a Wayfarer on the train it would be more trouble than it's worth!

I've never had any trouble buying any rovers/ranger tickets from my local station (Barrow in Furness) it sound like Sheffield booking office just not wanting to have to look up a ticket. I was at Sheffield one day after Northern introduced the Northern 55 west ranger and asked at the ticket office about if one for the east was available got a gruff don't know ask at the enquiry desk I was on my way to the enquiry desk and saw the clerk sat there with there feet up on anther chair so I did not bother. When I got to Nottingham I asked about a Northern 55 east and the lass must have spent 15 minutes trying to find it, but to no avail.

Back on track the north west 4 in 8 covers Skipton, Bradford & Leeds. But not Ilkley. Odd.
 

Deerfold

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That's possibly because TfGM don't want them sold further afield. The availability to Grindleford is perhaps for Greater Manchester people to get out into the Peak District rather than subsidising South Yorkshire folk on inter-city journeys.
I that's the aim, I wonder why it's valid on buses from Burnley in Lancashire to Todmorden in West Yorkshire.
 

Ianno87

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I that's the aim, I wonder why it's valid on buses from Burnley in Lancashire to Todmorden in West Yorkshire.

For many years, a TfGM Wayfarer could be used to reach Sheffield, but only by way of the now long-gone X18 bus (Hanley-Ashbourne-Buxton-Bakewell-Owler Bar-Sheffield)
 

island

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That's possibly because TfGM don't want them sold further afield. The availability to Grindleford is perhaps for Greater Manchester people to get out into the Peak District rather than subsidising South Yorkshire folk on inter-city journeys.
Far more likely to be the famously awkward Sheffield booking office being itself.
 

paul1609

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You can cross the Severn on the Freedom of Severn & Solent rover, but only look at the Solent!
Strictly speaking you can cross Portsbridge Creek to the Island City of Portsmouth and if the tides in at Portsmouth Harbour you get about 400 metres of sea. Both Portsbridge Creek and Portsmouth Harbour are part of the Solent Heritage site.

I nominate the "Kent" Rover for the stingiest.
Doesn't cover the following Kent Lines:
Dartford &/or Ebbsfleet to Gravesend,Ebbsfleet to Ashford, Otford to Sevonoaks, Edenbridge to Tonbridge, Edenbridge Town to Ashurst Kent, Ashford to Appledore (Kent).
We need "levelling up with the north"
 
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