TRIVIA: Services that don’t stop at *any* stations managed by that TOC

[tbtc]

Simple question: are there any/many services that don’t stop at *any* stations that are managed by the TOC that operates the service?

This can be either because the service stops at stations directly operated by Network Rail or because the service stops at stations operated by other TOCs (i.e. beyond the core operating area of the TOC).

For obvious reasons, I’m not talking about services operated by XC or Caledonian Sleeper, as neither TOC actually manages any stations.

Are there any historic examples?

 

[TurboFintan]

Any CrossCountry services, don't think they manage any stations on the network.

Edit: didn't see the XC, oops!

Edit 2: 07:01 Portsmouth Harbour to Brighton, operated by Great Western Railways. It calls at stations managed by either South Western Railways or Southern.

 

[ZFE95]

Simple question: are there any/many services that don’t stop at *any* stations that are managed by the TOC that operates the service?

This can be either because the service stops at stations directly operated by Network Rail or because the service stops at stations operated by other TOCs (i.e. beyond the core operating area of the TOC).

For obvious reasons, I’m not talking about services operated by XC or Caledonian Sleeper, as neither TOC actually manages any stations.

Are there any historic examples?

Southern Metro services from London Bridge to West Croydon via Forest Hill. LBG is managed by network rail and all intermediate stops are now ran by London Overground.

 

[sk688]

The Southern service from Clapham to Watford , none of the stations on that service are managed by Southern

EDIT : Also some Southeastern HS1 Services maybe , given that the stations are managed by HS1 Ltd

 

[Liam]

There's a Sunday morning East Coast starting at Edinburgh for Aberdeen.

 

[gg1]

Assuming there are no timetable changes in the meantime, the 07:05 Virgin Wolves to Euston service will fall into this category from early 2018 when responsibility for running Wolverhampton Station switches from Virgin to the new West Midlands franchise. Other calling points are Sandwell & Dudley (London Midland/West Midlands), Birmingham New Street and Euston (both Network Rail).

This service is the only one to run non stop between New Street and Euston.

 

[northwichcat]

The Northern Saturday only Chester to Runcorn service.

 

[AM9]

Southern Metro services from London Bridge to West Croydon via Forest Hill. LBG is managed by network rail and all intermediate stops are now ran by London Overground.

Given that Thameslink is not a real TOC but often conveniently marketed as one by GTR, how about current London Bridge to Brighton Thameslink services?
The same would also apply to Gatwick Express services.

 

[westv]

Hull Trains.
And before anybody says they aren't a TOC, they operate trains and they are a company.

 

[swt_passenger]

It's an awkward question, depends if you mean the normal 'whole' of a service, or can specify individual short workings, maybe at start and end of service. In the case of Southern's West London Line, is the Clapham Junction to Watford train a 'service' or a subset of the normal service from Croydon?

If short workings are OK then there's GWR's early eastbound Portsmouth to Brighton.

 

[adrock1976]

There are the Transpennine Manchester Airport - Glasgow/Edinburgh services that call at stations not managed by TPE.

Manchester Piccadilly (Network Rail), Oxford Road and Bolton when the Scotland services revert to that route (are they both managed by Greater Manchester Passenger Transport Executive or Northern Rail?), Wigan North Western to Carlisle inclusive (Virgin West Coast), Lockerbie, Motherwell, and Haymarket (all Scotrail), and Glasgow Central and Edinburgh Waverley (both Network Rail).

 

[island]

Hull Trains.
And before anybody says they aren't a TOC, they operate trains and they are a company.

Any Grand Central service, whilst we’re on the subject.

 

[northwichcat]

There are the Transpennine Manchester Airport - Glasgow/Edinburgh services that call at stations not managed by TPE.

Manchester Piccadilly (Network Rail), Oxford Road and Bolton when the Scotland services revert to that route (are they both managed by Greater Manchester Passenger Transport Executive or Northern Rail?), Wigan North Western to Carlisle inclusive (Virgin West Coast), Lockerbie, Motherwell, and Haymarket (all Scotrail), and Glasgow Central and Edinburgh Waverley (both Network Rail).

Isn't Manchester Airport station managed by TPE?

Of course if TfGM take over the management of stations in Greater Manchester then they'll be a long list of services which meet the criteria given.

 

[Ianno87]

King's Cross-Ely fast Great Northern GTR services.

King's Cross is managed by NR, and Cambridge, Cambridge North and Ely are managed by Greater Anglia.

 

[Springs Branch]

Isn't Manchester Airport station managed by TPE?

Correct, Manchester Airport station is managed by TPE.

The huge majority of MIA-Glasgow/Edinburgh trains run to or from the Airport, but I think the first northbound of the day starts from Piccadilly (at 04-something), so this one does not serve any stations managed by TPE.

 

[tbtc]

It's an awkward question, depends if you mean the normal 'whole' of a service, or can specify individual short workings, maybe at start and end of service. In the case of Southern's West London Line, is the Clapham Junction to Watford train a 'service' or a subset of the normal service from Croydon?

If short workings are OK then there's GWR's early eastbound Portsmouth to Brighton.

Apologies.

I should have said any individual service (so, as a hypothetical example, if EMT operated a service from Warrington to Liverpool, rather than as a through service to/from the East Midlands... or, as a historical one, if SWT had operated a service wholly west of Exeter in the days that they used to run to Plymouth etc).

Short workings, early or late services, quirky positioning trips - anything that has it's own page on RTT (and isn't running ECS).

 

[hairyhandedfool]

TPE have a couple of services which start at Manchester Piccadilly and call at Manchester Oxford Road, Birchwood, Warrington Central and Liverpool Lime Street, none of which are currently managed by TPE.

 

[Jake.Norman17]

Grand central don't operate any station

 

[yorkie]

EDIT : Also some Southeastern HS1 Services maybe , given that the stations are managed by HS1 Ltd

I don't know the arrangements, but NRE says:

Ebbsfleet International (EBD)
Managed by Southeastern

Maybe that's wrong, or maybe the term 'managed by' could have a slightly different meaning depending on context?

From a passenger point of view, the company managing the station would normally be staffing the ticket office (unless it was managed by a company that wasn't a TOC, and of course a small number of stations eg. Euston have more than one ticket office provided by different TOCs), controlling the departure boards, making announcements, and arranging assistance for passengers etc.

 

[yorkie]

Any Grand Central service, whilst we’re on the subject.

Hull Trains.
And before anybody says they aren't a TOC, they operate trains and they are a company. :razz::grin:

True, GC and HT are TOCs.

(It's the route brandings like Stansted Express which are not TOCs, which some people either mistakenly believe, or falsely claim, are TOCs ).

 

[gnolife]

There's one early morning Northern round trip from Liverpool Lime Street (Network Rail) to Manchester Airport (TPE) calling only at Manchester Piccadilly (Network Rail). There's also a late night Crewe (Virgin) - Manchester Piccadilly (Network Rail) that calls only at Manchester Airport (TPE) run by Northern

 

[PHILIPE]

We only did this earlier this year but with a different title although more or less the same thing:-

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=139898

 

[FenMan]

The 09:10 weekdays GWR service from Gatwick Airport to Reading would qualify but for that darned stop at Dorking Deepdene.

 

[gg1]

We only did this earlier this year but with a different title although more or less the same thing:-

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=139898

The topics are related but different, this is about services which don't stop at any stations managed by the TOC, that one is about stations managed by a particular TOC but not served by them.

 

[PermitToTravel]

I don't know the arrangements, but NRE says:
Maybe that's wrong, or maybe the term 'managed by' could have a slightly different meaning depending on context?

From a passenger point of view, the company managing the station would normally be staffing the ticket office (unless it was managed by a company that wasn't a TOC, and of course a small number of stations eg. Euston have more than one ticket office provided by different TOCs), controlling the departure boards, making announcements, and arranging assistance for passengers etc.

I think HS1 Ltd owns the stations, much like Network Rail owns most other GB stations?

 

[sk688]

I don't know the arrangements, but NRE says:
Maybe that's wrong, or maybe the term 'managed by' could have a slightly different meaning depending on context?

From a passenger point of view, the company managing the station would normally be staffing the ticket office (unless it was managed by a company that wasn't a TOC, and of course a small number of stations eg. Euston have more than one ticket office provided by different TOCs), controlling the departure boards, making announcements, and arranging assistance for passengers etc.

My apologies , I was looking at Wikipedia , which said it was managed by HS1 Ltd

 

[Lockwood]

I want to say "Southern, Portsmouth - Southampton" but something is making me want to say Southern have one of those stations?

 

[Harbouring]

I want to say "Southern, Portsmouth - Southampton" but something is making me want to say Southern have one of those stations?

The most westerly southern station on the coast would be Warblington, east of Havant. I can't think of any services solely between these SWR stations. Most stock movements are to/from Littlehampton/Barnham and afaik no Southern stock is berthed in Fratton. Some GWR's Berth there hence the Portsmouth-Brighton service

 

[Parallel]

The most westerly southern station on the coast would be Warblington, east of Havant. I can't think of any services solely between these SWR stations. Most stock movements are to/from Littlehampton/Barnham and afaik no Southern stock is berthed in Fratton. Some GWR's Berth there hence the Portsmouth-Brighton service

Ah, the morning GWR Portsmouth to Brighton train. That's a good one!

 

[telstarbox]

I think HS1 Ltd owns the stations, much like Network Rail owns most other GB stations?

All those services call at Southeastern stations on the classic lines anyway (Gravesend, Ashford etc)