[Trivia] Smallest communities served by named express trains in UK (and Ireland if you like)?

[70014IronDuke]

Thinking about a post on the Settle and Carlisle line just now, I remembered being on the up Thames-Clyde in 1965 and stopping at Hellifield - scheduled stop, that is. Since said location is really a village (even if an important railway centre back in the day), this got me thinking that this might be some sort of record "smallest population" stop for a named express train.

It's popn in 2011 was 1,426 - source Wiki - I would assume it was about 1,000 in the late 60s - BICBW.

But I quickly realised the Southern (for sure) would be one to beat this, with a portion of the Atlantic Coast Express stopping at places like Halwill Jcn, which I suspect had a population of less than 10 at the time (? Not an area I know).

And even today, the up Highland Chieftan on Sundays stops at most of the tiny Highland Main Line stations (well, it did until recently, not checked the very latest TT). It used to stop everywhere except

So, I think we can split this up into a number of specifics:

Q1 Smallest communities served by named express trains in England, Wales and Scotland (and Ireland if you like) - but only by the full train, not one-coach oddities/splits, such as the ACE in summer;

Q1a in steam days, ie up to summer 1968?

Q1b post-steam, ie after summer 1968?

Q2 Smallest communities served by named express trains in England, Wales and Scotland (and Ireland if you like) - including through carriages, ie including short fomations of through coaches, such as summer bits n pieces, as the ACE to the north Devon resorts.

Q2a in steam days, ie up to summer 1968?

Q2b in post-steam days, ie after summer 1968?

Note, the trains have to be 'officially' named - so we can't cite, eg the "Tutbury Flyer" single-carriage push-pull 'cos it wasn't officially named. (Unless it was? I'm pretty sure it wasn't. )

Heh heh! This should get some memory banks into top gear

I think the Thames-Clyde stopping at Hellifield should be a good candidate for the England, still steam-age Q1a correct answer.

 

[Gloster]

Did the ACE stop at Port Isaac Road, or maybe Tower Hill? That is if you consider the Padstow coaches to be the main train?

 

[zwk500]

For all questions, would the various iterations of the Cambrian Coast Express calling at Dovey Junction count?

It started without any portions, the whole train running through to Aberystwyth. Later it gain a portion for the northern branch. I haven't checked Timetable world to see if either or both portions called at Dovey Junction.

EDIT: Have checked, and it appears the Portion detached for Pwllheli didn't call at Dovey Jn, only the main train, so the Cambrian Coast Express only satisfies Q1A +B and not Q2.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Cornish Riviera at St. Erth (pop 1,381 in 2011)? In the traditional manner, the station is 0.75 of a mile from the village and is actually in Rose-an-Grouse, a tiny hamlet on the A30.

 

[30907]

For all questions, would the various iterations of the Cambrian Coast Express calling at Dovey Junction count?

It started without any portions, the whole train running through to Aberystwyth. Later it gain a portion for the northern branch. I haven't checked Timetable world to see if either or both portions called at Dovey Junction.

The Up train combined there, so the complete train (until they cut the RC off at Shrewsbury) stopped. So Q1a.
Perhaps cheating, as there was no road access and Glandyfi had its own station.
Afon Wen would qualify for 2a with both the CCE and the Welshman.
Barmouth Jn/Morfa Mawddach is a proper station with a handful of houses nearby.

 

[70014IronDuke]

For all questions, would the various iterations of the Cambrian Coast Express calling at Dovey Junction count?

It started without any portions, the whole train running through to Aberystwyth. Later it gain a portion for the northern branch. I haven't checked Timetable world to see if either or both portions called at Dovey Junction.

EDIT: Have checked, and it appears the Portion detached for Pwllheli didn't call at Dovey Jn, only the main train, so the Cambrian Coast Express only satisfies Q1A +B and not Q2.

But that's still only in Wales!
(fortunately, or you'd have ended the thread right there!)

 

[zwk500]

But that's still only in Wales!
(fortunately, or you'd have ended the thread right there!)

So you want the smallest in *each* home nation? Sorry, I thought you wanted the smallest across all 3.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

As a parallel to the up Sunday Highland Chieftain calls, when first introduced in 1974 the Clansman called at Newtonmore - wiki population 1120. The Newtonmore call was later dropped in favour of nearby Kingussie (1470) also a Chieftain call from introduction through to this day.

Both the Clansman and Chieftain called at Gleneagles (no population quoted but a minimal number), and the latter still does, and the Royal Highlander could add Dalwhinnie ('small village' no population quoted but probably less than 100).
In the modern era Gleneagles may be quoted as the railhead for Auchterarder around two miles away but until the mid 1950s Auchterarder had its own station closer to that small town.

 

[70014IronDuke]

So you want the smallest in *each* home nation? Sorry, I thought you wanted the smallest across all 3.

Yes, please. No need to apologise .. I should have been clearer.

I wonder - was the KX - Cleethorpes a named train in its day? (I forget - don't think it was, sadly. Might have been some v small Lincolnshire stops.) The Fenman might have stopped at some wayward halts too, of course.

What about trains twixt Glasgow - Aberdeen when the Forfar line was open? The Granit City (what a great name for a rock band!) - where did that stop?

 

[30907]

For all questions, would the various iterations of the Cambrian Coast Express calling at Dovey Junction count?

It started without any portions, the whole train running through to Aberystwyth. Later it gain a portion for the northern branch. I haven't checked Timetable world to see if either or both portions called at Dovey Junction.

EDIT: Have checked, and it appears the Portion detached for Pwllheli didn't call at Dovey Jn, only the main train, so the Cambrian Coast Express only satisfies Q1A +B and not Q2.

See my post #5. @70014IronDuke does it have to stop both ways?

For England - some possibilities are
SR - Sidmouth Jn aka Feniton for the ACE perhaps, and Wool for the Royal Wessex, Martin Mill for the Man of Kent, Stalbridge ( northbound) or Evercreech Jn for the Pines.
WR - Gwinear Road for the Riviera, Bodmin Rd for the Royal Duchy, Clynderwen and Clarbeston Rd for the Capitals United and Lamphey/Manorbier/Templeton for the Pembroke Coast. Arguably complete trains, though they had lost their RCs at Swansea/Plymouth. Brent for the Mayflower too.

 

[Maude673]

The Waverley calling at Newcastleton could be in contention for q1a. I’d also suggest one of the coastal villages on the fife coast expresses route but not sure they would be smaller than Newcastleton.

 

[Harvester]

”The Waverley” stopped at a few sparsely populated places. Newcastleton for example (population under 1000).

 

[70014IronDuke]

See my post #5. @70014IronDuke does it have to stop both ways?

For England - some possibilities are
SR - Sidmouth Jn aka Feniton for the ACE perhaps, and Wool for the Royal Wessex, Martin Mill for the Man of Kent, Stalbridge ( northbound) or Evercreech Jn for the Pines.
WR - Gwinear Road for the Riviera, Bodmin Rd for the Royal Duchy, Clynderwen and Clarbeston Rd for the Capitals United and Lamphey/Manorbier/Templeton for the Pembroke Coast. Arguably complete trains, though they had lost their RCs at Swansea/Plymouth. Brent for the Mayflower too.

Martin Mill - where the heck is that? Is it still open? Amazing.

I think if it stops just one way, it has to count as 1 point.

If it stops both ways - 3 points!

The Waverley calling at Newcastleton could be in contention for q1a. I’d also suggest one of the coastal villages on the fife coast expresses route but not sure they would be smaller than Newcastleton.

I did wonder about The Waverley, but hadn't realised it stopped at such wayside places. Was there a WW2 prison camp there or some such? Without that, you'd hardly imagine anyone boarding or alighting.

 

[nw1]

Martin Mill - where the heck is that? Is it still open? Amazing.

Somewhere between Ramsgate and Dover. I know nothing about the place but was aware of existence as long ago as the 80s due to Southern Region timetables.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

What about trains twixt Glasgow - Aberdeen when the Forfar line was open? The Granit City (what a great name for a rock band!) - where did that stop?

The three hour trains called Stirling, Perth, Forfar, Stonehaven - Stonehaven the smallest of these but a decent size town, other slower named trains (including the down Granite City) stopped at lesser stations/communities such as Larbert, Dunblane, Gleneagles (again), Coupar Angus - a town, Alyth Junction (junction for the branch to Alyth (and latterly railhead for that town), probably a pretty small settlement)) Bridge of Dun (junction for the branch to Brechin (and latterly railhead for that town) again a pretty small settlement, and Laurencekirk (then a smaller village than now).

In the early 1960s The Orcadian ran from Inverness to Wick and Thurso and although Limited Stop it could not avoid calling at Georgemas - potentially populated only by railway staff plus an adjacent farm!

 

[Maude673]

The three hour trains called Stirling, Perth, Forfar, Stonehaven - Stonehaven the smallest of these but a decent size town, other slower named trains (including the down Granite City) stopped at lesser stations/communities such as Larbert, Dunblane, Gleneagles (again), Coupar Angus - a town, Alyth Junction (junction for the branch to Alyth (and latterly railhead for that town), probably a pretty small settlement)) Bridge of Dun (junction for the branch to Brechin (and latterly railhead for that town) again a pretty small settlement, and Laurencekirk (then a smaller village than now).

In the early 1960s The Orcadian ran from Inverness to Wick and Thurso and although Limited Stop it could not avoid calling at Georgemas - potentially populated only by railway staff plus an adjacent farm!

I had a very similar thought about the Hebridean and the Lewisman but I have no idea where they stopped on the way to Kyle. Strathcarron seems a likely stop, just serving the hotel and pub.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

I had a very similar thought about the Hebridean and the Lewisman but I have no idea where they stopped on the way to Kyle. Strathcarron seems a likely stop, just serving the hotel and pub.

Strathcarron, another place where most of the population would be railway - as a minimum two signalmen and a stationmaster, and maybe a porter or two too! In 1965 the Hebridean called all stations!

 

[Magdalia]

The Fenman might have stopped at some wayward halts too, of course.

It did indeed, the down Fenman called Littleport and Magdalen Road. Go back far enough and it also had Hunstanton and Wisbech portions. The former were all stations, the down Wisbech portion called at Black Bank and Manea.

The Fenman counts in the modern era too, the name was revived in the Network SouthEast era.

Other ex Great Eastern named trains stopped at small stations. The down Broadsman was all stations Norwich-Sheringham, and until 1959 ran through to Melton Constable. The Essex Coast Express called at Thorpe-le-Soken.

 

[Welly]

I wonder - was the KX - Cleethorpes a named train in its day? (I forget - don't think it was, sadly. Might have been some v small Lincolnshire stops.)

It was called the "Humber Lincs" during the late 1980s by which time it was a HST working. The smallest place it called at would have been Market Rasen - pop 3904 in 2011.

 

[341o2]

Did the ACE stop at Port Isaac Road, or maybe Tower Hill? That is if you consider the Padstow coaches to be the main train?

Reading Q2, the ACE could run in more than one portion on Summer Saturdays, with a portion running direct to Padstow, ie not dividing at Exeter, then detaching the Plymouth and Bude portions, from memory, the ACE stopped at Halwill, then Launceston, (not Ashwater or Tower Hill) then all stations, so on that basis Halwill, Port Isaac Rd and St Kew Highway would be contenders.

 

[Iskra]

Corrour. The Caledonian Sleeper is a named train still. Population must be under 10.

Oxenholme Lake District is probably worth a mention, current population 1658. Virgin would have called Named trains there. And under BR/LMS it had the Lakes Express, which probably called at some even smaller places on the way to Windermere too but I couldn’t find a timetable for it, and of course back then they would have had smaller populations too.

 

[Western 52]

When the weekday mornings Carmarthen to Paddington train was still an HST, it called at Ferryside, pop 846. The train was named The Red Dragon. The equivalent class 800 service still stops there, but I don't think has a name now.

 

[Iskra]

Although I don’t think it will beat Corrour, are any of the historic stops on The Jolly Fisherman particularly small? I only made one return journey on it so I’m struggling to remember exactly where it called, and it looks to have been different this year with 180 haulage compared to when I did it on a HST and I should imagine calling points vary even further back in time.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

Back in the 1970s, the infamous 09:10 from Holyhead to Euston called at Llanfairfechan (pop. 3,600-ish) and Penmaenmawr (pop. around 4,000) on its way to London Euston on its all-stations except Shotton odyssey from Bangor to Chester and Crewe.

I seem to remember the train having to draw up twice at the short platforms.

Holyhead must surely be a contender for the smallest place to be the terminus of a through service from London.

Edit: Sorry, just saw that the OP said NAMED trains. I don't think the 09:10 was ever graced with a name, except some unofficial unprintable ones...

 

[zwk500]

Holyhead must surely be a contender for the smallest place to be the terminus of a through service from London.

Fort William is half the size of Holyhead (10k vs 5k). It may only get 1 direct train from London per day, but it is a direct service. I'm not sure if either the Highlander or Deerstalker names are official though.

 

[30907]

Reading Q2, the ACE could run in more than one portion on Summer Saturdays, with a portion running direct to Padstow, ie not dividing at Exeter, then detaching the Plymouth and Bude portions, from memory, the ACE stopped at Halwill, then Launceston, (not Ashwater or Tower Hill) then all stations, so on that basis Halwill, Port Isaac Rd and St Kew Highway would be contenders.

The weekday Padstow ACE in winter was all stations beyond Okehampton, but your suggestions are good for all year round - ditto Eggesford on the North Devon portion (or indeed Mortehoe and Instow, or Newton Poppleford for the Exmouth coach, or Sutton Bingham/Milborne Port for the "all-stations" coach).

 

[Ken H]

Thinking about a post on the Settle and Carlisle line just now, I remembered being on the up Thames-Clyde in 1965 and stopping at Hellifield - scheduled stop, that is. Since said location is really a village (even if an important railway centre back in the day), this got me thinking that this might be some sort of record "smallest population" stop for a named express train.

It's popn in 2011 was 1,426 - source Wiki - I would assume it was about 1,000 in the late 60s - BICBW.

But I quickly realised the Southern (for sure) would be one to beat this, with a portion of the Atlantic Coast Express stopping at places like Halwill Jcn, which I suspect had a population of less than 10 at the time (? Not an area I know).

And even today, the up Highland Chieftan on Sundays stops at most of the tiny Highland Main Line stations (well, it did until recently, not checked the very latest TT). It used to stop everywhere except

So, I think we can split this up into a number of specifics:

Q1 Smallest communities served by named express trains in England, Wales and Scotland (and Ireland if you like) - but only by the full train, not one-coach oddities/splits, such as the ACE in summer;

Q1a in steam days, ie up to summer 1968?

Q1b post-steam, ie after summer 1968?

Q2 Smallest communities served by named express trains in England, Wales and Scotland (and Ireland if you like) - including through carriages, ie including short fomations of through coaches, such as summer bits n pieces, as the ACE to the north Devon resorts.

Q2a in steam days, ie up to summer 1968?

Q2b in post-steam days, ie after summer 1968?

Note, the trains have to be 'officially' named - so we can't cite, eg the "Tutbury Flyer" single-carriage push-pull 'cos it wasn't officially named. (Unless it was? I'm pretty sure it wasn't. )

Heh heh! This should get some memory banks into top gear

I think the Thames-Clyde stopping at Hellifield should be a good candidate for the England, still steam-age Q1a correct answer.

In the 70's the Thames-Clyde Express stopped at Settle, not Hellifield.
But by 78-79 there are no named trains on S&C and they all started at Nottingham (Except for a Leicester start for one service on Saturdays.)

 

[Helvellyn]

Oxenholme Lake District is probably worth a mention, current population 1658. Virgin would have called Named trains there. And under BR/LMS it had the Lakes Express, which probably called at some even smaller places on the way to Windermere too but I couldn’t find a timetable for it, and of course back then they would have had smaller populations to too.

It had The John Peel in the 1980s, first Up train of the day from Carlisle to Euston. Interestingly there was no corresponding Down named service.

Oxenholme also had the named CrossCountry loco-hauled Scots - Cornish Scot, Devon Scot, Wessex Scot and Sussex Scot.

 

[Ken H]

It had The John Peel in the 1980s, first Up train of the day from Carlisle to Euston. Interestingly there was no corresponding Down named service.

Oxenholme also had the named CrossCountry loco-hauled Scots - Cornish Scot, Devon Scot, Wessex Scot and Sussex Scot.

Oxenholme is cheating a wee bit. Its really the main line station for Kendal. Wasnt originally called 'Kendal Jct'

Wonder how many change onto a Windermere train to get to Kendal rather than the bus???

 

[32475]

Somewhere between Ramsgate and Dover. I know nothing about the place but was aware of existence as long ago as the 80s due to Southern Region timetables.

Martin Mill (or part of it) now residing in our back garden!