Trivia: Speed Records

[ainsworth74]

Prompted by the Avanti/Network Rail attempt at the London to Glasgow record a few weeks ago initially I was wondering wither LNER would fancy having a go at the London to Edinburgh (or vice versa) record what with them having a shiny new fleet of trains to show off it might be a nice bit of PR. It was pointed out to me by another member in conversation though that it might be impossible for LNER to even attempt this due to the 140mph running which was permitted at times for earlier record runs.

This then got us to pondering firstly what other official records exist? And which ones might be vulnerable and/or of interest to break? For instance is there a record time for London to Leeds and might LNER be able to have a go at that? How about between Manchester and York? Might be one for TPE to have a go at and then perhaps another go at after the TRU is complete?

So I throw it open to the floor! What official* speed records exist and which ones might be vulnerable to an enterprising TOC/NR who fancy a bit of positive PR?

*Lets say that there has to have been some deliberate attempt at the record rather than it just happens there's really fast timetabled service between two station.

 

[43066]

So I throw it open to the floor! What official* speed records exist and which ones might be vulnerable to an enterprising TOC/NR who fancy a bit of positive PR?

London Bridge to Brighton is one obvious one. Set originally in the 50s(?) and then beaten in the relatively recent past in GTR days, by a 377 which was authorised to run at 100mph max (normal max linespeed is 90mph).

Potentially vulnerable should GTR attempt the same in a 700 given the units are more modern and lighter than 377s.

 

[DanNCL]

I'm sure there's a London - Bristol record set by a HST under BR, although I can't remember what the time was, could that be one for GWR to have a go at breaking with an 800?

 

[Peter C]

I'm sure there's a London - Bristol record set by a HST under BR, although I can't remember what the time was, could that be one for GWR to have a go at breaking with an 800?

https://rpdf.org.uk/rpdf/sample-search.jsf says the following:

Date	Train	Class	Loco	Time	Log Present
Thu, 30 Aug 1984	1858 Paddington - Bristol Temple Meads	43	43002/43003	62.33	N

This might be the record you're looking for, but it might just be a fast service. It's the fastest record the Railway Performance Society has on the site I linked to for Paddington-Bristol.

-Peter

 

[Gloster]

https://rpdf.org.uk/rpdf/sample-search.jsf says the following:

Date	Train	Class	Loco	Time	Log Present
Thu, 30 Aug 1984	1858 Paddington - Bristol Temple Meads	43	43002/43003	62.33	N

This might be the record you're looking for, but it might just be a fast service. It's the fastest record the Railway Performance Society has on the site I linked to for Paddington-Bristol.

-Peter

This might be the occasion (although probably not) when, with no PW slacks in force, BR decided to go for a record. The train arrived in Chippenham early and had to wait seven minutes for departure time. The fact that the train had achieved a new record for the run was announced over the PA, but it didn’t stop an elderly woman complaining about how long they were waiting for departure. (The source is something I read years ago, but I think that the salient details are correct.)

 

[Peter C]

This might be the occasion (although probably not) when, with no PW slacks in force, BR decided to go for a record. The train arrived in Chippenham early and had to wait seven minutes for departure time. The fact that the train had achieved a new record for the run was announced over the PA, but it didn’t stop an elderly woman complaining about how long they were waiting for departure. (The source is something I read years ago, but I think that the salient details are correct.)

Haha! You just can't please some people!

-Peter

 

[Sean Emmett]

This might be the occasion (although probably not) when, with no PW slacks in force, BR decided to go for a record. The train arrived in Chippenham early and had to wait seven minutes for departure time. The fact that the train had achieved a new record for the run was announced over the PA, but it didn’t stop an elderly woman complaining about how long they were waiting for departure. (The source is something I read years ago, but I think that the salient details are correct.)

Different occasions. Paddington to Temple Meads in 62m 33s was a Top of the Pops special with a shortened 2+5 formation, whereas the Chippenham run was in normal service previously referred to on this forum: Are well ever gonna get out of the '125Mph hole'? | RailUK Forums (railforums.co.uk) (see post #17).

Yes the 117 mph run with a 442 I have previously referred to involved a 7 minute wait at Southampton Airport Parkway, which got a few people a bit fidgety

Maxmium possible speed a unit can do | Page 2 | RailUK Forums (railforums.co.uk) (see post #54)

 

[Gloster]

Different occasions. Paddington to Temple Meads in 62m 33s was a Top of the Pops special with a shortended 2+5 formation, whereas the Chippenham run was in normal service previosuly referred to on this forum: Are well ever gonna get out of the '125Mph hole'? | RailUK Forums (railforums.co.uk) (see post #17).

Yes the 117 mph run with a 442 I have previously referred to involved a 7 minute wait at Southampton Airport Parkway, which got a few people a bit fidgety

Maxmium possible speed a unit can do | Page 2 | RailUK Forums (railforums.co.uk) (see post #54)

I stand - well, slouch - corrected. Though I am fairly sure it was on the normal service run to Chippenham that the woman complained.

 

[Sean Emmett]

I stand - well, slouch - corrected. Though I am fairly sure it was on the normal service run to Chippenham that the woman complained.

I'm agreeing with you! My point was that I witnessed the same reaction at Southampton Airport Parkway after that rather exhilerating 442 run, peeps were getting impatient that we were waiting time.

 

[Bald Rick]

Potentially vulnerable should GTR attempt the same in a 700 given the units are more modern and lighter than 377s.

But longer, which is an issue for locations where the speed limit is low.

 

[Deepgreen]

Forgive my ignorance, but I had thought that the record for a 442 (and for third rail) was 109mph - have I missed something momentous?

 

[AM9]

London Bridge to Brighton is one obvious one. Set originally in the 50s(?) and then beaten in the relatively recent past in GTR days, by a 377 which was authorised to run at 100mph max (normal max linespeed is 90mph).

Potentially vulnerable should GTR attempt the same in a 700 given the units are more modern and lighter than 377s.

Actually the original '53 record was broken by that much maligned EMU, the class 319, in 1994 when it took 37m 57s, - the 2006 record was just 61 seconds faster at 36m 56s, so given the extra performance that the Electrostar had, it didn't make that much difference. A run using a class 700 would indeed be interesting as it weighs just 410 tonnes per 12-car unit, whereas three 377/4 units weigh nearly 521 tonnes.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

But longer, which is an issue for locations where the speed limit is low.

Not if they use an 8 car 700/0 unit?

 

[75A]

Footplate crew could (but obviously wont) tell you of other fast runs. I can remember a 00:01 turn @ Brighton on a Boxing Day in the 80's when we took two Class 73's hooked together, light engine from Brighton to London Bridge (not the usual Victoria) to bring back the 03:23 & 03:27 Brighton & Eastbourne paper trains.

 

[Bald Rick]

Not if they use an 8 car 700/0 unit?

Twice as long as a 4 car!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Doing some checking, I found that the longest continuous stretch of 125mph on NR is the 49m04c on the WCML Down Fast between the north end of Watford Tunnel and the north end of Stowe tunnel (just before the Weedon curves), available to Pendolinos only - a few chains shorter on the Up Fast.
I had expected longer stretches of 125mph on the "racetrack" ECML and "billiard table" GWML, but they are both broken up into shorter section by various obstacles.
Apart from the slower speeds through Reading and Swindon stations, the GWML has the awkward 110mph limit at Steventon.
As a result the GWML best is the 30 miles between Acton and Reading East.
The ECML best is the 39 miles north of York.
ECML 125mph doesn't start until north of the Welwyn viaduct, and there are dips near St Neots, through Peterborough, and between Stoke Tunnel and Grantham.
Have I got it right (based on sectional appendices)?
I know it is all outclassed by HS1, with HS2 to come.

 

[GW43125]

Forgive my ignorance, but I had thought that the record for a 442 (and for third rail) was 109mph - have I missed something momentous?

Officially it's 108-109 but in practice, Micheldever to Shawford is 15 miles of 1 in 250 downhill so a lot was possible when nobody was looking. I've heard many stories of REPs/442s going down the bank with the speedo on the stop at ~115mph.

 

[colchesterken]

And I thought the London to Brighton record was 3 mins LOL

 

[Deepgreen]

Officially it's 108-109 but in practice, Micheldever to Shawford is 15 miles of 1 in 250 downhill so a lot was possible when nobody was looking. I've heard many stories of REPs/442s going down the bank with the speedo on the stop at ~115mph.

Indeed, but reading above I inferred that the recognised record was 117mph.

 

[sjm77]

Liverpool - Manchester would be an obvious one to try given the recent electrification and upgrade to 90 mph.

Also how many seconds will be saved on the approach to Kings Cross with the new faster approach? This could make a difference when combined with an Azuma on electric compared to a C91+Mk IV.

 

[Sean Emmett]

Indeed, but reading above I inferred that the recognised record was 117mph.

On the 117 mph 442 run I recorded I did speak to the driver at Southampton Central. "Oooh, were you recording me? Well, I had the speedo on the stop". Difficult to see from the platform, but was advised that was a notional 120.

Could witter on all night re 86s at 120 on the Norwich line, then there was that 47 down Madeley at 110+, a VEP doing Ascot to Richmond under even time, ... preserved steam.... oh looks it's tea time.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Twice as long as a 4 car!

The record run with the 377s was with an 8 car rake... 377 472 + 377 474.

 

[43066]

The record run with the 377s was with an 8 car rake... 377 472 + 377 474.

 

[43066]

The 2006 London Bridge to Brighton speed record attempt is viewable above, via YouTube.

It is indeed an eight car train.

 

[Thomas6187]

Liverpool - Manchester would be an obvious one to try given the recent electrification and upgrade to 90 mph.

The early morning Liverpool-Manchester-Man Airport is good judge for what could be possible. Quickest time this week was 29 minutes, with a 195, on 25th June

03:37 Liverpool-Man Airport

 

[thenorthern]

Tamworth to Lichfield Trent Valley I am told are the closest stations where trains calling at both reach 125 mph. It's about 6 miles between the two.

 

[hexagon789]

Tamworth to Lichfield Trent Valley I am told are the closest stations where trains calling at both reach 125 mph. It's about 6 miles between the two.

So about 4.5mi to reach 125mph if you subtract braking distance

 

[Paul Jones 88]

During Eurostar line tests, a REP was used on the line between Tonbridge and Ashford for a special run with dignitaries from France and The UK, at one point it was doing 124mph, I'd have loved to have been on that.

 

[Carlisle]

You’d have thought a new Ryde to Shanklin record should be possible given the replacement stock ..

 

[The Planner]

Tamworth to Lichfield Trent Valley I am told are the closest stations where trains calling at both reach 125 mph. It's about 6 miles between the two.

Not convinced, Lichfield to Tamworth, they are given 5 minutes to do that on the up, average speed of 75mph and 5½ on the down, average speed of 68mph. Ignoring the fact I think the Up SRT is probably short, I would be surprised if they get to it.