Trivia: Standard guage lines that never had a connection to the rest of the British Rail network?

[stj]

IIRC, the waterloo and city used to be connected to the mainline network via a rail vehicle lift, however it was demolished to make way for the Eurostar terminal. So all maintenance now has to be done on-site and train replacements require a big crane.

I'm pretty sure the Blackpool tramway has no connection to the national rail network. Don't know if it ever had one.

The Manchester Metrolink, Sheffield supertram and Tyne and wear Metro all have NR connections.

I'm not sure what the situation is with other tramways.

I belive the DLR is isolated, even though some of it's lines use former rail routes.

Regarding the underground, looking at the carto-metro map.

The central line looks like it has a NR connection at Ruislip Depot.

The metropolitan shares tracks with Chiltern.

The bakerloo shares the watford DC line with London overground.

The circle shares tracks with the metropolitan, district and hammersmith and city.

The picadilly shares tracks with the metropolitan and district.

The victoria appears to be connected to the picadilly at finnsbury park

The nothern appears to have a NR connection at romford.

Yes the Blackpool Tramway is isolated but was once connected at the Fleetwood end.

 

[vic-rijrode]

When the Metro first opened it had regular freight services from the ECML via the south to west curve east of Benton. These used a dedicated track round the back of Gosforth depot to reach the Rowntrees factory near Fawdon and the ICI explosives factory at Callerton. Callerton route was beyond the then terminus at Bank Foot and most of it was later incorporated in the Airport extension.

Thank you for that info. I had never noticed the south to east curve formation until now - even though it is obvious on the OS map and the OPC Rail Atlases.

One wonders what the denizens of Ponteland and Darras Hall made of the explosives factory not too far away.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

If you recall, there is a connection near Bury, because locos from the East Lancs Railway were used on P Way works on that section of Metrolink.

also a connection between "Newton Heath and Moston" and "Failsworth"

 

[Basil Jet]

Wouldn't this be the District at Upminster?

Neither the Underground, Overground or C2C have track connections to each other at Upminster.

 

[edwin_m]

also a connection between "Newton Heath and Moston" and "Failsworth"

Not sure about that one. I ran all the hazard workshops for this route and I don't recall it ever being mentioned.

There was going to be a connection between the stub of the Oldham line north of Rochdale (kept as a turnback siding) and Metrolink on towards Oldham, but for some reason it was never built.

Metrolink is the only UK tramway with wheels compatible (sort of) with heavy rail standards, so in theory trains can run on the off-street parts. At Sheffield only the tram-trains can using the connection, having a wheel profile which is compatible (again sort of) with both. None of the other UK tramways have compatible wheels.

 

[etr221]

The Bideford, Westward Ho! and Appledore railway only ever had a temporary connection for the stock to be delivered

... and also one for stock (possibly just locomotives - the coaches were I think out of gauge for the main line) to be removed after closure. Also - because it was just bits of track laid on the road surface - possibly not connected to both ends at the same time. But I don't know details.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Not sure about that one. I ran all the hazard workshops for this route and I don't recall it ever being mentioned.

There was going to be a connection between the stub of the Oldham line north of Rochdale (kept as a turnback siding) and Metrolink on towards Oldham, but for some reason it was never built.

Metrolink is the only UK tramway with wheels compatible (sort of) with heavy rail standards, so in theory trains can run on the off-street parts. At Sheffield only the tram-trains can using the connection, having a wheel profile which is compatible (again sort of) with both. None of the other UK tramways have compatible wheels.

I can see it on satellite view and openrailway map.
The top track to the left is NR, until it meets the other tracks which are all Metrolink.

 

[plugwash]

Does Metrolink actually have a connection? Between Navigation Road and Altrincham, for some distance out of Victoria, and within Manchester Airport station, they share the same trackbed, with Metrolink and mainline trains running directly alongside each other - but is there actually anywhere a vehicle could run from one onto the other?

I belive there are less links than there used to be, but some are still in place.

There is a connection to the East Lancs railway near bury, which is in turn connected to the mainline via heywood.

Looking on google there seems to be a rather rusty crossover between navigation road and altrincham. https://www.google.com/maps/place/A...869046!4d-2.3488983!16zL20vMDFweTNn?entry=ttu

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Looking on google there seems to be a rather rusty crossover between navigation road and altrincham. https://www.google.com/maps/place/A...869046!4d-2.3488983!16zL20vMDFweTNn?entry=ttu

Yep it's definitely there (photo taken during this year's Manchester Marathon)

 

[D6130]

Going back into history, the Spurn Head Military Railway (1915-1951) - 6 km or 3 3/4 miles long - from Kilnsea to Spurn Point was totally isolated from the rest of the network.

 

[mike57]

Going back into history, the Spurn Head Military Railway (1915-1951) - 6 km or 3 3/4 miles long - from Kilnsea to Spurn Point was totally isolated from the rest of the network.

Spurn Point Railway?

Hull History Nerd has covered this line in one of his videos:

Well worth a watch

Certainly one of the more quirky lines and the only time I have ever seen reference to 'sail bogies' in a UK context including a picture, as well as some other interesting forms of motive power

 

[Tim M]

I was going to suggest the Weston, Clevedon & Portishead Railway - but I believe there was a connection to the GWR branch at Portishead.

The WC&P had a connection to the GWR at Clevedon.

Rail Map online - historic railways, railroads and canals

UK, Ireland and US historic railways, railroads and canals. Includes waggonways, tramways, stations, metro and narrow gauge lines displayed on an interactive Google Map.

www.railmaponline.com

 

[The exile]

One wonders what the denizens of Ponteland and Darras Hall made of the explosives factory not too far away.

A useful source of employment, probably. No doubt it had been there longer than they had.

 

[Basil Jet]

Possibly one of the most remote stretches of standard gauge track is in the McCulloch Rail Depot in Ballantrae!

Wow.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/cBZt2gKSWL6mJLBA6

A weird one is the piece of track running northwest across the middle of a roundabout at Snodland, built unconnected when an industrial estate was planned to be connected to the Medway Valley Line.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.3421663,0.4450619,158m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu

 

[mike57]

The 0.75mile Mangapps museum track doesn't appear to be based on any closed railway or have any connection to the rail network

 

[randyrippley]

There must have been quarry/reservoir/industrial lines which didn't connect.
For instance did the Carnforth Ironworks network actually connect to the main line? As far as can see it didn't but it's hard to be sure

 

[Shimbleshanks]

Not a British example, but I think there was a line in Ireland that was built to the Irish 'standard' gauge of 5' 3" but wasn't connected to anything else.

Lost in the mists of my memory now, but I do remember on a walk somewhere along the north Kent coast in the late 1980s or 1990s coming across a short isolated bit of standard gauge line that had a row of standard BR mineral wagons on it. I think it might have been used to transport material from a shipping jetty to some industrial premises slightly inland. Can't recall seeing a locomotive - perhaps they used shunting tractors? I recall that it was all very rusty and was probably disused by then.

 

[Gloster]

Not a British example, but I think there was a line in Ireland that was built to the Irish 'standard' gauge of 5' 3" but wasn't connected to anything else.

There was one on Haulbowline Island in Cork Harbour that used Uniloks, but it closed around 2001.

 

[Dr_Paul]

Lost in the mists of my memory now, but I do remember on a walk somewhere along the north Kent coast in the late 1980s or 1990s coming across a short isolated bit of standard gauge line that had a row of standard BR mineral wagons on it. I think it might have been used to transport material from a shipping jetty to some industrial premises slightly inland. Can't recall seeing a locomotive - perhaps they used shunting tractors? I recall that it was all very rusty and was probably disused by then.

Here perhaps, on this map, grid ref 962653? This is near Conyer, on the Kent coast, by the Swale, the creek between the mainland and the Isle of Sheppey.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

Here perhaps, on this map, grid ref 962653? This is near Conyer, on the Kent coast, by the Swale, the creek between the mainland and the Isle of Sheppey.

Yes, very likely - it's certainly the area where I used to do quite a lot of walks. The rail 'network' on the map is a bit more elaborate than I remember but it's quite an old map and it's possible that by the time I saw it, bits of it had been closed. I wonder what the industry was?

There was one on Haulbowline Island in Cork Harbour that used Uniloks, but it closed around 2001.

That's interesting, though I don't think it was the line I was thinking of. Was it for a naval establishment of some kind?

 

[stuu]

Not a British example, but I think there was a line in Ireland that was built to the Irish 'standard' gauge of 5' 3" but wasn't connected to anything else.

The first sections of the Londonderry and Lough Swilly Railway were built at 5'3 and later converted to 3', they were isolated from the rest of the network. Also the lines south west of Cork were not connected except via the city tram network

 

[Gloster]

Yes, very likely - it's certainly the area where I used to do quite a lot of walks. The rail 'network' on the map is a bit more elaborate than I remember but it's quite an old map and it's possible that by the time I saw it, bits of it had been closed. I wonder what the industry was?

It was most likely a brickworks owned by Eastwoods.

That's interesting, though I don't think it was the line I was thinking of. Was it for a naval establishment of some kind?

Haulbowline had been a navy base, but the later line was for a scrapyard.

The Dublin & Kingstown, including the extension to Dalkey was standard until 1857.

 

[Dstock7080]

Wouldn't this be the District at Upminster?

There is no NR/LU connection at Upminster, the work was never completed.
There is a connection at Barking.

 

[Rescars]

There must have been quarry/reservoir/industrial lines which didn't connect.
For instance did the Carnforth Ironworks network actually connect to the main line? As far as can see it didn't but it's hard to be sure

When the Ayrshire coalfield was being opened up, there were internal lines which were not connected initially to the rest of the network. D L Smith records that the first two locomotives for the Dalmellington Iron Co were towed in the 11 miles from Ayr by horses, on their flanged wheels and without the benefit of temporary track. The first one at least was light enough not to damage the roadway.

 

[MadMarsupial]

In a previous thread " The Lad" posted this about Hoy in Orkney

There is a short length of standard gauge at Lyness on the Island of Hoy which was used for the vertical boilered steam cranes used to lift out and maintain the anti-torpedo nets for Scapa Flow.
A few wagons rusting also.

 

[etr221]

Not a British example, but I think there was a line in Ireland that was built to the Irish 'standard' gauge of 5' 3" but wasn't connected to anything else.

The line you are thinking of is - I think - the Waterford and Tramore Railway, which ran from Waterford Manor Station (on the other side of the city to the main - now Plunkett - station) Tramore. It remained isolated until closure in the 1950s, even after being taken over by the Great Southern Rly, and so CIE. These did undertake exercises to bring in new rolling stock by road. Am I right in thinking that - as it had no other stations - Waterford Manor and Tramore were the only stations on a public passenger railway (not a museum or amusement operation), from which there was only rail connection to one other (the other of the pair)?

I sometimes think of the W&T as the simplest possible example of a railway in the British Isles, as a line linking two stations, and that being it...

There is no NR/LU connection at Upminster, the work was never completed.
There is a connection at Barking.

Until the LT and BR (as they then were) tracks were segregated from about 1960 (I'm not sure how long it took for complete speration to occur), the east end of District Line (beyond Campbell Road Junction (a bit east of Bow Road) was over the LTSR/Midland/LMSR, with District trains running by agreement to provide part of the service for that section (for many of the stations, meant all of the trains), and some through services from Southend onto the MDR and through to Ealing. Only after nationalisation under the BTC in 1948/49 was there any transfer from what had become the Railway Executive to the London Transport Executive.

One result of this separation was the reversal of the Upminster-Romford branch - it changed being one from the LT&S at Upminster (with through srvices from Southend, Tilbury and Grays) to Romford, to one from the GE at Romford to Upminster.

 

[D6130]

The line you are thinking of is - I think - the Waterford and Tramore Railway, which ran from Waterford Manor Station (on the other side of the city to the main - now Plunkett - station) Tramore. It remained isolated until closure in the 1950s, even after being taken over by the Great Southern Rly, and so CIE. These did undertake exercises to bring in new rolling stock by road. Am I right in thinking that - as it had no other stations - Waterford Manor and Tramore were the only stations on a public passenger railway (not a museum or amusement operation), from which there was only rail connection to one other (the other of the pair)?

I sometimes think of the W&T as the simplest possible example of a railway in the British Isles, as a line linking two stations, and that being it...

Yep, that was pretty much it....a line built to take city folk to their nearest seaside resort and back again - although I would imagine that the inhabitants of Tramore would also have used it for shopping, social and business purposes in the 'big' city.

 

[etr221]

The first sections of the Londonderry and Lough Swilly Railway were built at 5'3 and later converted to 3', they were isolated from the rest of the network. Also the lines south west of Cork were not connected except via the city tram network

Eventually the LLSR was connected to County Donegal Railway (also 3' gauge, with a track connection - though I'm not sure to what extent there was any interchange), and so to the main Irish rail network).

There was a link between the 5'3" lines of the GS&WR (to the north) and the CB&SC (south west of cork) via a Harbour or Dock line, which saw (AIUI) a reasonable amount to interchange traffic.

The Cork city tramway was just under 3' gauge (2'11" ?) to provide interchange with/between some or all of the local 3' gauge railways, using flange tip running (as used on Clydeside and (I believe) in Portsmouth.

 

[Rescars]

I sometimes think of the W&T as the simplest possible example of a railway in the British Isles, as a line linking two stations, and that being it...

I still plead the case for the funiculars (post #60 above). Although there are exceptions, they usually link just two termini, although granted these may not be that far apart. As far as simplicity goes, funiculars normally don't even stretch to a set of points - just plain line all the way!

 

[MarkyT]

The Fawley Hill Railway in Buckinghamshire is completely isolated and was never connected to the broader network nor part of a former closed branch line. It was the private estate railway of the late Sir William McAlpine.

The late Alan Bloom's Bressingham museum near Diss in Norfolk has a demonstration line for its standard gauge loco collection. Again never connected to the network nor part of a former branch the line was constructed on a former farm road I think.

These guys both knew how to do a garden railway properly and had the money to achieve it!

I still plead the case for the funiculars (post #60 above). Although there are exceptions, they usually link just two termini, although granted these may not be that far apart. As far as simplicity goes, funiculars normally don't even stretch to a set of points - just plain line all the way!

To save land take and money, longer funiculars are sometimes single track with a passing loop at the mid point. The turnouts are not conventional however, having no moving switch component. Instead each car guides itself to it's appropriate passing track by means of double flanged wheels on one side and flangeless rollers on the other. Each car sticks to the same track at the loop in both directions. Another mountain railway invention of Swiss engineer Carl Roman Abt, the developer of the most widely used rack and pinion system.