Trivia: Stops You Wouldn't Expect

[wastedlife]

Times depature from Waterloo

As well as the three that do that (17:41, 18:12 and 18:41) there is also two stop West Byfleet trains (17:53 and 18:46) that continues all stations to Portsmouth Harbour and three semi-fast trains that skip Brookwood (17:25, the 18:32 that stops all stations except Brookwood on Surbiton to Basingstoke, for 'stops you'd expect to be there' and the 17:53 (which is also first stop West Byfleet)

The 17:53 is first stop Surbiton not West Byfleet, and to be clear, goes to Basingstoke.

 

[Kite159]

All trains have to stop at Quintrell Downs heading away from Newquay due to the level crossing which I think is operated by the driver pulling on a bit of rope (Cornwall is very high tech).

Token exchange & crossover point on that line is normally around Goonbarrow & at St Blazey Signal Box

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Correct, Quintrell Downs is a mandatory stop for all Up trains, whereas on the down the crossing is treadle operated. I just wondered why that particular passenger service advertised the stop when all others didn’t!

 

[Dai Corner]

Correct, Quintrell Downs is a mandatory stop for all Up trains, whereas on the down the crossing is treadle operated. I just wondered why that particular passenger service advertised the stop when all others didn’t!

According to the Sectional Appendix the crossing is automatically operated in both directions, though plungers for the driver's in case of malfunction are provided.

Quintrel Downs LC (ABCL)

The instructions for ABCL/AOCL level crossings in Rule Book, Module TW8 apply at this crossing with the following modifications:

The crossing is operated by approaching trains or the operation of the Driver’s plunger.

In the event of the crossing sequence not being initiated by the approach of the train or should the white light stop flashing before the train reaches the crossing, the Driver must operate the plunger to activate the crossing. The plunger is located in a locked cabinet (unlocked by a BR no. 1 key), as follows:

Down direction: approximately 20 yards on the approach side to the Drivers red/white flashing light post
Up direction: On Quintrel Downs platform adjacent to the Crossing STOP board.
When the white light is flashing the Driver may proceed as normal.
If after operation of the plunger the white light still does not flash the Driver must treat the crossing as failed.

Page 640 http://archive.nr.co.uk/browse documents/sectional appendix/sectional appendix full pdf copies/western sectional appendix.pdf

 

[Ianno87]

According to the Sectional Appendix the crossing is automatically operated in both directions, though plungers for the driver's in case of malfunction are provided.




Page 640 http://archive.nr.co.uk/browse documents/sectional appendix/sectional appendix full pdf copies/western sectional appendix.pdf

On the Up, the treadle to activate the sequence is placed so the sequence is optimised for stopping trains. Hence all trains in practice have to stop as it is too close to the crossing to do otherwise.

 

[Dai Corner]

On the Up, the treadle to activate the sequence is placed so the sequence is optimised for stopping trains. Hence all trains in practice have to stop as it is too close to the crossing to do otherwise.

Ah. Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I never appreciated that subtlety - thanks!

 

[SeanG]

Any stop by WCRC at a signal on red is surely unexpected

 

[Deafdoggie]

Similarly on summer SO the 0605 Newquay-Manchester called at Quintrell Downs but none of the other local stops on the branch. This represented the only local journey possible on a summer SO as all the stoppers were cancelled and no other IC services called between Par and Newquay. No idea why that one called - something to do with Butlins staff perhaps?

I am sorry, but I can't help being pedantic! There is no Butlins at Newquay!! There is a campsite nearby to Quintrill Downs, but not that near, and not that a big a one either! As others say, trains stop there anyway due to level crossing, just not sure why that, and no others, is actually timetabled.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Wasn't there once a Summer cross-country service that started at, of all places, Rose Grove?

 

[backontrack]

Ardwick whenever a train calls there.

 

[SWTrainspottin]

All trains have to stop at Quintrell Downs heading away from Newquay due to the level crossing which I think is operated by the driver pulling on a bit of rope (Cornwall is very high tech).

Token exchange & crossover point on that line is normally around Goonbarrow & at St Blazey Signal Box

Correct, Quintrell Downs is a mandatory stop for all Up trains, whereas on the down the crossing is treadle operated. I just wondered why that particular passenger service advertised the stop when all others didn’t!

Some additional information;
Quintrell Downs LC is not operated by the driver, up trains await a signal at the station for permission to cross it. Express services on the branch stop at Quintrell Downs but it is not a passenger stop, doors are not unlocked. They wait at the signal for crossing to go down like the locals, but the locals make a passenger stop. Towards Newquay the station is still a mandatory stop for locals although it requires no waiting at a signal for the crossing, expresses always pass towards Newquay.

 

[alistairlees]

Wasn't there once a Summer cross-country service that started at, of all places, Rose Grove?

I think it started in May 1988. Rose Grove to Paignton (and back). Via Preston and Birmingham NS. It did seem very odd at the time.

 

[tbtc]

A significant number of the MOD employees at MOD Abbey Wood live in the Bath area So this is designed as a direct service from Bath to Filton.
Interestingly there is a working in the afternoon which bypasses Temple Meads and the next stop after Filton is Bath. . While the morning working is normally a HST the afternoon working is a 2 or 3 car Class 158.

THat's a service that I've always wondered about but never asked about.

I (wrongly) assumed that it was a route retention thing over the chord but was confused that it ran at "peak" times (rather than first thing or last thing in the day).

Now I know

Ladybank on XC services?

A small Scottish village of around 1.5k, lucky enough to recieve long distance direct links to the likes of Birmingham and Bristol. How the XC timetable allows this to be possible is quite something.

I think it's more a case of the XC service being used in place of a ScotRail semi-fast, so serving the same kind of stations.

I'm sure that XC would rather use the unit on their own "core", but IIRC the semi-fast service through Fife is there from the days when BR were smart at using stock on "local" duties before the long distance duties started.

Ladybank is ridiculously overserved. Has under 100k passengers a year, in a tiny village, yet is served by mainly a 2tph service to Edinburgh. Add that to regular links to Dundee, Perth, and services to Inverness and big cities in England.

It's not a big place, but you could probably argue that it's a railhead for quite a bit of north east Fife - especially given the lack of station at Newburgh (etc) and the parking at Cupar/Leuchars.

It gets a good long distance bus/coach service too (hourly to Edinburgh, two an hour to Dundee - used to get an hourly coach to Glasgow too) - so one of the "best connected small places".

Indeed there is, both the 1st and the last train down the Hope Valley is operated by EMT. I presume it’s an operational convenience that saves Northern a pacer, but is does clog up the EMT route map and seem a bit unnecessary.

This is maybe an opportunity to mention Dore, which gets four services to Manchester in the sixty minutes during the morning rush hour (07:14, 07:20, 07:39, 08:10) but only three to Sheffield between the 06:49 and the 09:58).

In the evening, there are five Manchester arrivals in around an hour (18:00, 18:04, 18:40, 18:58, 19:04) but only an hourly service from Sheffield (16:21, 17:21, 18:21).

So a much better commuter service from suburban Sheffield to/from Manchester than to Sheffield City Centre.

(there's various reasons for this, I appreciate - and I know colleagues who cram onto the services into central Sheffield who freely admit that buying a ticket is a rarity, given the very short distance and the busy trains where the Guard needs to open/close the doors - so the revenue from Dore into Sheffield won't look great)

There's one through train from Adwick to Manchester that runs in the afternoon to move units from East to West but that has a crew change at Sheffield

Ah, yes, the Adwick - Ardwick service (it doesn't stop at the Mancunian station - very little does - but it's one of those nice pairings)

 

[DanTrain]

This is maybe an opportunity to mention Dore, which gets four services to Manchester in the sixty minutes during the morning rush hour (07:14, 07:20, 07:39, 08:10) but only three to Sheffield between the 06:49 and the 09:58).

In the evening, there are five Manchester arrivals in around an hour (18:00, 18:04, 18:40, 18:58, 19:04) but only an hourly service from Sheffield (16:21, 17:21, 18:21).

So a much better commuter service from suburban Sheffield to/from Manchester than to Sheffield City Centre.

(there's various reasons for this, I appreciate - and I know colleagues who cram onto the services into central Sheffield who freely admit that buying a ticket is a rarity, given the very short distance and the busy trains where the Guard needs to open/close the doors - so the revenue from Dore into Sheffield won't look great)

Indeed Dore does seem odd from a distance, but part of this is probably down to local buses being a more frequent way into the centre, and the intercity trains shouldn’t be made to cover for intra-city travel. It’s probably pretty unusual in having 6x more TOCs calling than off peak trains per hour though!

 

[backontrack]

I am sorry, but I can't help being pedantic! There is no Butlins at Newquay!! There is a campsite nearby to Quintrill Downs, but not that near, and not that a big a one either! As others say, trains stop there anyway due to level crossing, just not sure why that, and no others, is actually timetabled.

Perhaps they've travelled up the road from Perranporth?

 

[mrcheek]

The Paddington to Weston-Super-Nightmare services which call(ed?) at Weston Milton always seemed odd to me.

A holdover from the days when it used to be a fairly busy station for commuters. They all use Worle or the main Weston station now.
I dont have any figures, but Im guessing Weston Milton is one of the small number of stations with declining usage

 

[Taunton]

London Paddington - Paignton services calling at Dawlish Warren on Summer Saturdays.

Late reply, but this is a longstanding mainline stop. Can recall the parade of expresses through Taunton in the early 1960s, from both Paddington and the north, and the announcer "callin' at Ex'ter, Dawlish Warren, Dawlish, T'inm'th, Newton Abbot ...", There are far less now than there used to be.

The surprise nowadays is Penzance etc services calling at Castle Cary. And pulling up there in June to find the platform packed end to end with those from Glastonbury festival.

The Paddington to Weston-Super-Nightmare services which call(ed?) at Weston Milton always seemed odd to me.

That one really has risen and fallen. In earlier WR days that used to be Weston Milton Halt, the old GWR expression for a platform without staff, where on the last train of the day the guard had to nip out and switch off the lights (quite often left to a reliable regular alighting passenger).

 

[Stopper]

I think it's more a case of the XC service being used in place of a ScotRail semi-fast, so serving the same kind of stations.

I'm sure that XC would rather use the unit on their own "core", but IIRC the semi-fast service through Fife is there from the days when BR were smart at using stock on "local" duties before the long distance duties started.



It's not a big place, but you could probably argue that it's a railhead for quite a bit of north east Fife - especially given the lack of station at Newburgh (etc) and the parking at Cupar/Leuchars.

It gets a good long distance bus/coach service too (hourly to Edinburgh, two an hour to Dundee - used to get an hourly coach to Glasgow too) - so one of the "best connected small places".

I’d agree with your point if the numbers backed it up, but they don’t. It’s a very lightly used station, and is probably overserved by ScotRail as it is.

A good example of a railhead is Inverkeithing. It’s not a very big place, infact there are several intermediate stops on the Fife Circle that are a lot bigger than it. However it has the Ferrytoll P&R, and is a junction for the Circle, meaning it is served by more trains than anywhere in Fife. So despite losing most Aberdeen and Inverness services, it’s still served by VTEC and XC, because the numbers are so high at this station.

Ladybank is just a very strange call on the XC services.

 

[Dai Corner]

A holdover from the days when it used to be a fairly busy station for commuters. They all use Worle or the main Weston station now.
I dont have any figures, but Im guessing Weston Milton is one of the small number of stations with declining usage

Actually, usage has increased by 40% to about 65,000 since 2011, Weston-super-Mare has increased by 4% to about 1,140,000 and Worle by 24% to about 300,000.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_Milton_railway_station
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston-super-Mare_railway_station
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worle_railway_station

 

[backontrack]

A good example of a railhead is Inverkeithing. It’s not a very big place, infact there are several intermediate stops on the Fife Circle that are a lot bigger than it. However it has the Ferrytoll P&R, and is a junction for the Circle, meaning it is served by more trains than anywhere in Fife. So despite losing most Aberdeen and Inverness services, it’s still served by VTEC and XC, because the numbers are so high at this station.

It's also a railhead for Dunfermline, Dalgety Bay, North Queensferry and Rosyth for intercity services.

 

[mrcheek]

Actually, usage has increased by 40% to about 65,000 since 2011, Weston-super-Mare has increased by 4% to about 1,140,000 and Worle by 24% to about 300,000.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_Milton_railway_station
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston-super-Mare_railway_station
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worle_railway_station

that actually staggers me. Then again, I tend to be on the very early (or very late) services when its much quieter. Maybe people who get on at Milton work a normal 9-5

 

[Deafdoggie]

Perhaps they've travelled up the road from Perranporth?

That’s Haven not Butlins

 

[backontrack]

That’s Haven not Butlins

OK, so the name's slightly different. But it's the logical route to somewhere like Plymouth if you've got a car.

 

[Dhassell]

that actually staggers me. Then again, I tend to be on the very early (or very late) services when its much quieter. Maybe people who get on at Milton work a normal 9-5

Alot of evening services on both weekdays and weekends fill up pretty much at Bristol Temple Meads, The majority getting off at those 3 stations.

 

[Revilo]

Alot of evening services on both weekdays and weekends fill up pretty much at Bristol Temple Meads, The majority getting off at those 3 stations.

There was a time (before Worle opened in 1990) when Weston Milton had an am-peak ticket office. There are now no ticket issuing facilities, not even a TVM.

Since then, a lot of new housing and a college campus has been built to the south of the station, and more housing is being developed as we speak. It's also the only station locally with a free car park. So rather than no London trains stopping, it needs more!

 

[racklam]

I actually used that today, I went Acton Bridge to Coseley . I was going for a work meeting nearby as was another fella I spoke to, but I think we were the only ones that got off ! Smethick Gorton Bridge is another station I wonder why Liverpool - Birmingham stops at.

Smethwick Galton Bridge is useful for getting to Kidderminster/Worcester/Solihull etc. without having to walk across Birmingham. I've done it a few times and there's always a few people making that connection.

 

[Intercity 225]

The first southbound VTEC from north of Newcastle has a 'normal' stopping pattern to York, then only calls at Retford between York and London - I don't think there's any other services that are fast from Retford to London (or from York to Retford for that matter).

This is indeed an unusual working but I found it very useful when travelling from North Nottinghamshire for meetings in London when I was local to the area. Essentially a true North Notts Express.

Well loaded too, a fair few would board at Retford but it was clear to me that the majority of passengers were from the North East... all anecdotal of course but it sounded like us Notts folk were significantly outnumbered on the accent front!

 

[racklam]

This is indeed an unusual working but I found it very useful when travelling from North Nottinghamshire for meetings in London when I was local to the area. Essentially a true North Notts Express.

Well loaded too, a fair few would board at Retford but it was clear to me that the majority of passengers were from the North East... all anecdotal of course but it sounded like us Notts folk were significantly outnumbered on the accent front!

Interesting you say that - I see it come through York almost every week and it's never more than half full. I do wonder if that's because advances seem to be much more expensive on that one than the trains up to half an hour later.

 

[Intercity 225]

Interesting you say that - I see it come through York almost every week and it's never more than half full. I do wonder if that's because advances seem to be much more expensive on that one than the trains up to half an hour later.

It's been over three years since I used it so things may have changed since then. Another thing to factor is that every time I used this service I was travelling on business so I'd be in First Class, the loadings in standard may have been lighter - I just assumed they'd be similar throughout the train. I must also point out that it wasn't loaded to the point of bursting but busier than many other services I've used at a similar time of day e.g. You'd be lucky to occupy one of the single seats in FC but would find a spare one on a bank of four easily enough.

All my experiences are anecdotal of course, I wasn't a daily commuter and could have just been unlucky on the days I happened to use it!

If it is currently and/or usually fairly lightly loaded, your thoughts regarding advance ticket prices compared to slightly later services make perfect sense.