[Trivia] Things that are illegal on the railway that you don't expect to be.

[CheekyBandit]

I wish that one, above all others, would be more rigorously enforced (or even just enforced at all!).

In my experience I got told off (when a few loud mouthed and drunk football yobs which I found annoying) by train company officials for quoting bye-laws that didn't exist. If I didn't have a flat battery on my phone I would have shown the the actual document.

 

[RyanOPlasty]

" 21. Unauthorised buying or selling of tickets
(1) Subject to Byelaw 21(4), no person shall sell or buy any ticket.

.
.
.

(4) The sale or transfer by, or the purchase or receipt from, an authorised person
in the course of his duties or from an authorised ticket machine is excepted
from the provisions of Byelaw 21. "

My phone is neither an authorised person nor an authorised ticket machine. Is using an app to buy my ticket in breach of the byelaws?

 

[Watershed]

" 21. Unauthorised buying or selling of tickets
(1) Subject to Byelaw 21(4), no person shall sell or buy any ticket.

.
.
.

(4) The sale or transfer by, or the purchase or receipt from, an authorised person
in the course of his duties or from an authorised ticket machine is excepted
from the provisions of Byelaw 21. "

My phone is neither an authorised person nor an authorised ticket machine. Is using an app to buy my ticket in breach of the byelaws?

The app is operated by, or on behalf of, an authorised person.

 

[Pigeon]

I was surprised that it's illegal as although it's a nuisance when people go up an escalator the wrong way I didn't expect it to be illegal.

if you go the wrong way up an escalator in a shop you will get told to get off and use the correct one

Things that appear in a thread about things that are illegal on the railway that you don't expect to be that you don't expect to find appearing: visitors from an alternate universe where people going up escalators the wrong way is an everyday event.

Me, I'd be finding an additional reason to be surprised at it being illegal in the impossibility of ever bringing a prosecution because nobody who isn't well under the age of criminal responsibility would want to do it in the first place.

 

[Chris M]

Things that appear in a thread about things that are illegal on the railway that you don't expect to be that you don't expect to find appearing: visitors from an alternate universe where people going up escalators the wrong way is an everyday event.

Me, I'd be finding an additional reason to be surprised at it being illegal in the impossibility of ever bringing a prosecution because nobody who isn't well under the age of criminal responsibility would want to do it in the first place.

Wasn't there someone quite recently who was collared for breaking a minor byelaw like this on the Underrgound rather than for pushing through the barriers without having a ticket as only RPI can deal with the latter?

 

[daveo]

You wouldn’t be able to leave a supermarket without paying for your groceries just because you were rushing and the queue was longer than you expected.
Probably not a good comparison (although one you appear to particularly fond of). In the supermarket you will have your intended purchases in your possession. At the railway station you are only a prospective (or future) consumer until you actually board the train.

 

[TUC]

Things that appear in a thread about things that are illegal on the railway that you don't expect to be that you don't expect to find appearing: visitors from an alternate universe where people going up escalators the wrong way is an everyday event.

Me, I'd be finding an additional reason to be surprised at it being illegal in the impossibility of ever bringing a prosecution because nobody who isn't well under the age of criminal responsibility would want to do it in the first place.

I was in a supermarket recently where the Up escalator was broken and was amazed to see several different people stare at it with puzzlement then, rather than look for a lift or stairs, start to walk up the Down escalator, leading to staff telling them to get off.

 

[wilbers]

You wouldn’t be able to leave a supermarket without paying for your groceries just because you were rushing and the queue was longer than you expected.

To be pedantic, you could leave, just not with the groceries. I can't think of anything that is illegal in putting stuff in a supermarket in a trolley and leaving it in the supermarket, although they could ban anyone who did it without a good reason.

 

[vlad]

Dogs must be carried on escalators. So if you don't have a dog with you you'll have to use the stairs.

Nothing in the bylaws to state you can't borrow someone else's dog.

 

[Bevan Price]

Dogs must be carried on escalators. So if you don't have a dog with you you'll have to use the stairs.

That is a rather unsafe regulation if your dog is as large as a golden retriever, bulldog, etc.

 

[occone]

I neither care about it nor hope it gets enforced but technically:

Gambling.

It's common to see folk on gambling apps but the bylaws state:

"No person shall gamble on any part of the railway except lawful gambling on premises authorised by an operator for that purpose."

I presume the intention is to outlaw physical gambling, e.g. card games or putting squirrels down your pants (Simpsons reference sorry) but doesn't appear to have an allowance for virtual gambling

 

[Neo9320]

I neither care about it nor hope it gets enforced but technically:

Gambling.

It's common to see folk on gambling apps but the bylaws state:

"No person shall gamble on any part of the railway except lawful gambling on premises authorised by an operator for that purpose."

I presume the intention is to outlaw physical gambling, e.g. card games or putting squirrels down your pants (Simpsons reference sorry) but doesn't appear to have an allowance for virtual gambling

LOVE the Simpsons reference! Would love to actually see it on a train! I don’t even think I’d complain! Lol!

 

[SCDR_WMR]

I neither care about it nor hope it gets enforced but technically:

Gambling.

It's common to see folk on gambling apps but the bylaws state:

"No person shall gamble on any part of the railway except lawful gambling on premises authorised by an operator for that purpose."

I presume the intention is to outlaw physical gambling, e.g. card games or putting squirrels down your pants (Simpsons reference sorry) but doesn't appear to have an allowance for virtual gambling

Surely that squarely falls under the app being the authorised operator as you are not physically gambling on railway property

 

[Javelin_55]

Isn't there a byelaw regarding the wearing of hi-vis clothing on the railway being limited to those working on or about the line and prohibited for anyone else?

If so someone had better have a word with all those school trippers.

 

[Watershed]

Isn't there a byelaw regarding the wearing of hi-vis clothing on the railway being limited to those working on or about the line and prohibited for anyone else?

If so someone had better have a word with all those school trippers.

No, there isn't.

 

[Chris M]

Isn't there a byelaw regarding the wearing of hi-vis clothing on the railway being limited to those working on or about the line and prohibited for anyone else?

Network Rail have a rule (not a by-law) about helmet colour on worksites (white = PTS qualified, blue = everyone else) but that's the closest I can think of

 

[bramling]

I am always amazed at the number of passengers that seem to think that buying a full, valid ticket for their journey before being challenged by a guard or RPI is an optional observance.

That one I’d say is fairly easily explained by the lack of consistency around different areas. For someone used to a rural railway where there are no ticket issuing facilities and every train has a guard who comes round and issues tickets, it isn’t unreasonably to assume same applies everywhere.

 

[43066]

@daveo (I can’t quote because you’ve written your response into the text you’ve quoted)

It’s sort of irrelevant whether the goods are in your trolley or not? In both cases you need to pay before departing with your goods/boarding the train.

Next time you’re in Tesco, try pushing your goods out to the car park without paying, and see if the security guard cares whether they’re in your possession or not. People just need to exercise a little common sense and responsibility and leave enough time - or buy a ticket online, buy it the night before etc.

Things that appear in a thread about things that are illegal on the railway that you don't expect to be that you don't expect to find appearing: visitors from an alternate universe where people going up escalators the wrong way is an everyday event.

Agreed! AThen again I’ve seen people old enough to know better doing all sorts of ridiculous things especially after a few drinks.

To be pedantic, you could leave, just not with the groceries.

Yes, but you could equally leave the station without boarding the train.

That one I’d say is fairly easily explained by the lack of consistency around different areas. For someone used to a rural railway where there are no ticket issuing facilities and every train has a guard who comes round and issues tickets, it isn’t unreasonably to assume same applies everywhere.

Agreed the lack of consistency is an issue.

 

[SussexSeagull]

I neither care about it nor hope it gets enforced but technically:

Gambling.

It's common to see folk on gambling apps but the bylaws state:

"No person shall gamble on any part of the railway except lawful gambling on premises authorised by an operator for that purpose."

I presume the intention is to outlaw physical gambling, e.g. card games or putting squirrels down your pants (Simpsons reference sorry) but doesn't appear to have an allowance for virtual gambling

There is a Jago Hazzard video on Csrd Sharps on Victorian era trains so that probably stems back from then. Unfortunately it isn't fully released yet or I would share it.

 

[philthetube]

You don't have to get very far into the railway byelaws to encounter things you wouldn't expect to be illegal. Byelaw 1 states it is illegal not to join the end of a queue!

I do hope this is not mandatory for every queue you see

 

[purple-Azumas]

Byelaw 14 prohibits bad parking:

(2) no person in charge of any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance shall leave or place it on any part of the railway:

1.  in any manner or place where it may cause an obstruction or hindrance to an operator or any person using the railway or
2. otherwise than in accordance with any instructions issued by or on behalf of an operator or an authorised person

(3) no person in charge of any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance shall park it on any part of the railway where charges are made for parking by an operator or an authorised person without paying the appropriate charge at the appropriate time in accordance with instructions given by an operator or an authorised person at that place

Does this make the railway the only place in which it is an explicit criminal offence to park in this way - rather than simply a civil matter?

 

[Watershed]

Byelaw 14 prohibits bad parking:

Does this make the railway the only place in which it is an explicit criminal offence to park in this way - rather than simply a civil matter?

There are similar Byelaws at many airports, ports and other similar locations. Some forms of parking are also illegal on the public highway, or in council car parks.

 

[Towers]

Network Rail have a rule (not a by-law) about helmet colour on worksites (white = PTS qualified, blue = everyone else) but that's the closest I can think of

No purple?!


Sorry!

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Network Rail have a rule (not a by-law) about helmet colour on worksites (white = PTS qualified, blue = everyone else) but that's the closest I can think of

May be thinking of https://www.networkrail.co.uk/commu...sts/guidelines-for-taking-photos-at-stations/

 

[daveo]

@daveo (I can’t quote because you’ve written your response into the text you’ve quoted)

It’s sort of irrelevant whether the goods are in your trolley or not? In both cases you need to pay before departing with your goods/boarding the train.

Next time you’re in Tesco, try pushing your goods out to the car park without paying, and see if the security guard cares whether they’re in your possession or not.

I agree with that, but you've misinterpreted my comments.
In the supermarket you are in possession of the goods for which you need to pay. On the railway (or aircraft) you are still a potential customer when you reach the point of payment (unless you pay on the train).

 

[43066]

In the supermarket you are in possession of the goods for which you need to pay. On the railway (or aircraft) you are still a potential customer when you reach the point of payment (unless you pay on the train).

Not sure I’d agree with that. Until you’ve actually paid for the goods you’re free to leave without them, and are only a potential customer until you’ve paid. You don’t actually take ownership of them just because they’re in your shopping trolley.

If you proceed past the point of payment and out of the shop with the goods, that is broadly equivalent to walking past a railway ticket office and boarding a train.

I agree there’s an inconsistent approach, whereby you could buy on the train many times with no issue, and then be collared by a revenue patrol.

 

[185143]

Not sure I’d agree with that. Until you’ve actually paid for the goods you’re free to leave without them, and are only a potential customer until you’ve paid. You don’t actually take ownership of them just because they’re in your shopping trolley.

If you proceed past the point of payment and out of the shop with the goods, that is broadly equivalent to walking past a railway ticket office and boarding a train.

I agree there’s an inconsistent approach, whereby you could buy on the train many times with no issue, and then be collared by a revenue patrol.

The shopping trolley of course being the one item in your possession that you won't take ownership of!

 

[LCC106]

@Chris M I can’t link to the escalator thread in question but it was in the disputes and prosecutions section -

Accused of disorderly behaviour. Now received SJPN.​

 

[Bartsimho]

Dogs must be carried on escalators. So if you don't have a dog with you you'll have to use the stairs.

This just makes me think of the New York Subway rule of all dogs must be in bags rather than walking on a leash which leads to this:

 

[wilbers]

Blimey, thats either a naturally exceptionally docile dog, or some of the greatest dog trainers in world are in New York.