TRIVIA - Things you saw travelling on BR that you don't see today

[Carlisle]

Now, what I remember was a glass liquid soap dispenser, suspended above the basin from hinged brackets with a nozzle that the soap (yellow?) flowed, slowly and thickly from. By appropriate weighting it sat nozzle upwards unless you actually turned and held it downwards; when you had enough (one hand at a time) and let go, it swung back to point upwards.

Im sure stainless steel versions of the above were a fairly widespread fitting in people’s kitchens or bathrooms in the 1970s, I can remember playing with them in various houses I visited over the years

 

[Fawkes Cat]

"Passengers must cross the line via the footbridge". The problem with putting that sign on both sides of the bridge meant that I kept having to cross and cross back and so missed my train.

I'm at the end of the pier all week.

A humour bypass (and a genuine desire to know) leads me to ask:

Wasn't the wording 'Passengers must not cross the line except by means of the footbridge'?

This was wording which always got me because it breaks perfectly into two eight syllable lines, and can be read rhythmically and meaningfully: it's actually a sixteen syllable, two line poem:

Passengers must not cross the line
Except by means of the footbridge

 

[exsignalman]

"Passengers must cross the line via the footbridge". The problem with putting that sign on both sides of the bridge meant that I kept having to cross and cross back and so missed my train.

I'm at the end of the pier all week.

I suppose that the 'proper' wording of a sign like that should really read something like the following..

'In the event of passengers requiring to cross the line, passengers must safely cross the line via the footbridge'.

I'm guessing that the reason why the quote on the sign was kept short was to prevent a kind of 'Information overload'?

I understand that the history of BR's signs lies with the actual designers of BR signage (Margret Calvert & Jock Kinneir) who both had some connection with the governments DRU (Design Research Unit) ,the very same unit that designed the UKs standardised road signage/motorway signage.

The font that was designed for British Rail in 1965 was named 'Rail Alphabet' (a variation of BR's Rail Alphabet is also used by the NHS in the UK's hospitals up & down the country).
I remember hearing somewhere that it was deemed that signs designed by the DRU were designed to be...in effect...short but sweet...so that they would in effect get their point across clearly, but also use the least amount of words/characters etc, so that they would be quick to read,process & prevent a kind of information overload to the person reading them.

It's one of the reasons why the first motorways in the UK were designed to be identified by signs that had a uniform colour, standard font, with using a reference number no greater than using three characters (I.E M1 M6 M11 etc) because at first it was thought that too many characters would be difficult to read & process at high speeds & thus cause information overload at motorway speeds & cause confusion to a road driver approaching them.

That later proved to be wrong as now we have four character identification on some motorways like...the M602 in Manchester, the M621 in Leeds & the M181 in Scunthorpe.

But you can see why we don't have motorways numbered like..M123456 M234366 M62590 etc etc.
It's no doubt the reason why some of the rail industry's signs are..'Short but sweet'?

Who would have thought that BR's signage has links with the NHS & the UK's road network?.

Rail Alphabet - Wikipedia

Design Research Unit - Wikipedia

New Rail Alphabet | A2-TYPE

Margaret Calvert - Wikipedia

Jock Kinneir - Wikipedia

 

[RLBH]

'In the event of passengers requiring to cross the line, passengers must safely cross the line via the footbridge'.

In fairness, 'Passengers crossing the line must use the footbridge' communicates the same message in just eight words. Evidently someone considered a prohibition - 'must not' - to be more important than economy of words.

 

[Spamcan81]

Pre-war SR electric units

 

[Spamcan81]

Fish trains

 

[exsignalman]

In fairness, 'Passengers crossing the line must use the footbridge' communicates the same message in just eight words. Evidently someone considered a prohibition - 'must not' - to be more important than economy of words.

It was several years ago & I can't exactly remember which railway publication it was (I think it was possibly Rail & in the stop & examine column??) where it featured a photo where the powers that be had overdone it with the safety signs.

The gist of the article was that the original safety sign had just become lost amongst the many other safety signs that had since been added & added & added....there was just that many that they had all lost their impact & had thus become useless.

The example was something like the original sign being......

'Passengers must not cross the line.....Except by means of the footbridge'......then there had been others added that were like..

'Keep left whilst using the footbridge'

'Customers must hold the handrail whilst using the footbridge'

'Parents are advised to hold their child's hand whilst using the footbridge'

'Samaritans sign'

'Wet floor sign/beware uneven surface'

'Customers are advised to purchase a valid ticket before boarding the train'

'No smoking or vaping anywhere on these premises'

'Customers are advised not to run whilst on the station'

'Keep back behind the yellow line...(passing trains cause air turbulence)'

There seems to be a trend these days of providing a warning sign for anything & everything just in case ...& in the event of anything & everything going wrong & perhaps a law suit kicking off then the powers that be can say..'there was a sign there to warn you', but in reality too many signs may have the opposite effect/information overload, with the end result being that they don't get read & just make the place untidy.

Common sense just doesn't seem to prevail anymore.

Going overboard with all these often pointless signs can sometimes have a direct negative impact on more important things...for example..

I was working in the north west in the mid 1990s, it was 1996 & the Euro 96 football tournament was on, I was on call & had a call out to investigate a signal sighting complaint where a driver complained that a signal could not be seen.

On arrival in the area I checked the approach to the signal & made an immediate discovery that a large sign denoting 'EMERGENCY EXIT >>(& it also had some reference to Euro 96 crowd overspill)' had been erected at the western end of the station platform immediately slap bang about 10 feet right in front of the signal with the sign thus blocking the signal head (& in particular the red aspect) .

Needless to say the sign was immediately removed & my report submitted, from what can remember it was erected/placed there by outside contractors who were something to do with Euro 96 crowd control.

Obscuring a railway signal with a safety sign.

Oh dear. safety signs etc....you can have too much of a good thing.

Too many signs and bollards 'are disfiguring our streets' | Daily Mail Online

 

[Ken H]

It was several years ago & I can't exactly remember which railway publication it was (I think it was possibly Rail & in the stop & examine column??) where it featured a photo where the powers that be had overdone it with the safety signs.

The gist of the article was that the original safety sign had just become lost amongst the many other safety signs that had since been added & added & added....there was just that many that they had all lost their impact & had thus become useless.

The example was something like the original sign being......

'Passengers must not cross the line.....Except by means of the footbridge'......then there had been others added that were like..

'Keep left whilst using the footbridge'

'Customers must hold the handrail whilst using the footbridge'

'Parents are advised to hold their child's hand whilst using the footbridge'

'Samaritans sign'

'Wet floor sign/beware uneven surface'

'Customers are advised to purchase a valid ticket before boarding the train'

'No smoking or vaping anywhere on these premises'

'Customers are advised not to run whilst on the station'

'Keep back behind the yellow line...(passing trains cause air turbulence)'

There seems to be a trend these days of providing a warning sign for anything & everything just in case ...& in the event of anything & everything going wrong & perhaps a law suit kicking off then the powers that be can say..'there was a sign there to warn you', but in reality too many signs may have the opposite effect/information overload, with the end result being that they don't get read & just make the place untidy.

Common sense just doesn't seem to prevail anymore.

Going overboard with all these often pointless signs can sometimes have a direct negative impact on more important things...for example..

I was working in the north west in the mid 1990s, it was 1996 & the Euro 96 football tournament was on, I was on call & had a call out to investigate a signal sighting complaint where a driver complained that a signal could not be seen.

On arrival in the area I checked the approach to the signal & made an immediate discovery that a large sign denoting 'EMERGENCY EXIT >>(& it also had some reference to Euro 96 crowd overspill)' had been erected at the western end of the station platform immediately slap bang about 10 feet right in front of the signal with the sign thus blocking the signal head (& in particular the red aspect) .

Needless to say the sign was immediately removed & my report submitted, from what can remember it was erected/placed there by outside contractors who were something to do with Euro 96 crowd control.

Obscuring a railway signal with a safety sign.

Oh dear. safety signs etc....you can have too much of a good thing.

Too many signs and bollards 'are disfiguring our streets' | Daily Mail Online

cover my arse mentality. bung up a sign and if there is a claim you are covered,

 

[Ken H]

Sets of 110mph mk 3's with a Mk1 BG passed for 110. There were no Mk3 BSO's made.
Never understood why a Mk2 BSO could not have been made 110 capable.
110mph in a BG must have been a lively ride for a guard!
Then they built the DVT's...

 

[52290]

Fish trains

As a train spotter in Leyland in the 1950's I remember "the Fish" a train that came through in the early evening taking fish from Fleetwood to London. Even if you missed seeing it you could smell it for sometime afterwards. As was appropriate for a train of seafood it was normally hauled by a Fleetwood "Crab"!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Seasonal mails and parcels traffics - sometimes using EMU sets with up turned seat cushions (EPB's in particular in the South London area) - 313's on the GN.

Extra crowd busting trains formed of MK1 sets (no buffet car) - pre Xmas - on routes such as Paddington - Swansea / Kings Cross - Newcastle.

Xmas menu's on dining cars - bit more than today's offerings of a wrap.

The coal rush before Xmas to keep power stations topped up. Additional domestic Freightliner services made up solely of Royal Mail containers for parcel post.

 

[Taunton]

I'm guessing that the reason why the quote on the sign was kept short was to prevent a kind of 'Information overload'?

I understand that the history of BR's signs lies with the actual designers of BR signage

Long predated BR. The GWR not only had the sign, cast iron, but in some areas of Wales it was in Welsh. George Behrend in "Gone With Regret" fully quoted it as such.

 

[Fearless]

On the London Underground escalators it was 'dogs must be carried', so one spent ages finding one to carry

Love it! It's interesting that 'Dogs must be carried' and 'Tickets must be shown' have the same structure but different meaning. In the case of the dogs, it means 'If you have a dog, you must carry it', but that doesn't mean that if you have a ticket you must show it. 'Tickets must be shown' means 'to exit the station you must show your ticket', but that doesn't mean that if you want to use the escalator you have to carry a dog. English is such a weird language.

And now I'll go before I disappear up my own backside...

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Love it! It's interesting that 'Dogs must be carried' and 'Tickets must be shown' have the same structure but different meaning. In the case of the dogs, it means 'If you have a dog, you must carry it', but that doesn't mean that if you have a ticket you must show it. 'Tickets must be shown' means 'to exit the station you must show your ticket', but that doesn't mean that if you want to use the escalator you have to carry a dog. English is such a weird language.

It's perfectly possible to interpret 'Tickets must be shown' in the same way as the dog message: 'If you have a dog, you must carry it' becomes 'If you have a ticket, you must show it'. And since all passengers naturally follow the rules, they will all have tickets...

 

[Taunton]

Seasonal mails and parcels traffics - sometimes using EMU sets with up turned seat cushions (EPB's in particular in the South London area)

These were rostered as such by the operating department, to have the SUB/EPB seats reversed, long after the CMEE department, working in a parallel universe, had decided to fix the cushions in position at overhaul.

Some splendidly oddball workings. Redhill to Twickenham, both of which had major postal centres adjacent with electrified sidings, without reversing. And a driver who knew the road throughout.

Additional domestic Freightliner services made up solely of Royal Mail containers for parcel post.

You have to be of a certain age to remember ice cream vans lined up at the station parcels dock in December, fridges taken out and with big "Royal Mail" stickers on the windows, to supplement the post office's own vehicles. I believe they were off tax for the winter, but the hire stickers allowed them to run on the road.

 

[PeterC]

These were rostered as such by the operating department, to have the SUB/EPB seats reversed, long after the CMEE department, working in a parallel universe, had decided to fix the cushions in position at overhaul.

Some splendidly oddball workings. Redhill to Twickenham, both of which had major postal centres adjacent with electrified sidings, without reversing. And a driver who knew the road throughout.

You have to be of a certain age to remember ice cream vans lined up at the station parcels dock in December, fridges taken out and with big "Royal Mail" stickers on the windows, to supplement the post office's own vehicles. I believe they were off tax for the winter, but the hire stickers allowed them to run on the road.

I can remember EMUs carrying parcels on the GEML but not the ice cream vans. I do recall a rather ancient hired coach coming down our road once with parcels piled high inside. Of course in those days we didn't have a host of competing couriers.

 

[Fearless]

It's perfectly possible to interpret 'Tickets must be shown' in the same way as the dog message: 'If you have a dog, you must carry it' becomes 'If you have a ticket, you must show it'. And since all passengers naturally follow the rules, they will all have tickets...

My point exactly! I've been spending too long reading the posts on the Disputes & Prosecutions threads, obviously...

 

[DavidGrain]

The last few posts reminds me of the notice that you see on lifts. 'Do not use this lift in case of fire' which is sometimes turned round to 'In case of fire do not use this lift'.

The only interpretation I can put on this is do not use this lift in case there is a fire. In order words do not use the lift. Vary rarely have I seen 'Do not use this lift in the event of a fire'

Another common notice is 'This door is alarmed' to which I usually reply, I am mildly concerned myself.

 

[krus_aragon]

Another common notice is 'This door is alarmed' to which I usually reply, I am mildly concerned myself.

How about the "automatic door - keep clear" signs? If you keep clear, you'll never get into the building.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

How about the "automatic door - keep clear" signs? If you keep clear, you'll never get into the building.

or the note on the toilet door of the gym....'Now wash your hands', presumably you'll never get out!

Now back on topic!

 

[scragend]

The last few posts reminds me of the notice that you see on lifts. 'Do not use this lift in case of fire' which is sometimes turned round to 'In case of fire do not use this lift'.

The only interpretation I can put on this is do not use this lift in case there is a fire. In order words do not use the lift. Vary rarely have I seen 'Do not use this lift in the event of a fire'

I wonder if the use of "in case of" in that way comes from translation/misinterpretation of other languages. In French, the phrase in your example would be "en cas d'incendie". Literally "in case of", but better translated as "in the event of".

 

[Cowley]

I’m not sure if we’ve had this yet, but...
Rows of dirty BR blue diesels ticking over on a frosty winters night whilst being stabled.
No chances being taken with switching them off and then not being able to start them again.

 

[Busaholic]

Seasonal mails and parcels traffics - sometimes using EMU sets with up turned seat cushions (EPB's in particular in the South London area) - 313's on the GN.

Extra crowd busting trains formed of MK1 sets (no buffet car) - pre Xmas - on routes such as Paddington - Swansea / Kings Cross - Newcastle.

Xmas menu's on dining cars - bit more than today's offerings of a wrap.

The coal rush before Xmas to keep power stations topped up. Additional domestic Freightliner services made up solely of Royal Mail containers for parcel post.

Speaking of mail traffic, and apologies for going off topic, but in August 1963 my school took some pupils camping to Fort George in Scotland, and we used the West Coast main line to get there, the first time I'd been on it. On the way back (and we'd been out of communication with the outside world) I remember great excitement at seeing someone reading a copy of a newspaper the headline of which was 'Great Train Robbery; millions stolen'. I guess this would have been either the day after the robbery, or possibly two days later. Wish I'd kept a copy of the paper! The robbery took place on that line, of course.

 

[Bedpan]

or the note on the toilet door of the gym....'Now wash your hands', presumably you'll never get out!

Now back on topic!

I don't think that children should be driving at all. Now really back on topic - I haven't read the entire thread, has anyone mentioned those funny articulated delivery lorries that had a three wheeled tractor unit?

 

[AY1975]

Train conductors handing out survey forms asking passengers various questions about the purpose of their journey, what made them decide to take the train, whether they could have used another mode of transport, etc. I can remember my parents and I filling in such a survey on a Euston-Manchester train in about the mid to late 1980s.

Such things may still exist today but have probably been largely superseded by online surveys.

 

[DavidGrain]

Train conductors handing out survey forms asking passengers various questions about the purpose of their journey, what made them decide to take the train, whether they could have used another mode of transport, etc. I can remember my parents and I filling in such a survey on a Euston-Manchester train in about the mid to late 1980s.

Such things may still exist today but have probably been largely superseded by online surveys.

Was handed a survey form a few months back on a crowded late evening train from Birmingham Snow Hill

 

[bastien]

Train conductors handing out survey forms asking passengers various questions about the purpose of their journey, what made them decide to take the train, whether they could have used another mode of transport, etc. I can remember my parents and I filling in such a survey on a Euston-Manchester train in about the mid to late 1980s.

Such things may still exist today but have probably been largely superseded by online surveys.

Definitely still happens but (forgive the stereotype but it's true) it's usually a little old lady handing out the form.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Definitely still happens but (forgive the stereotype but it's true) it's usually a little old lady handing out the form.

Mine was a little old man!

 

[Bald Rick]

Train conductors handing out survey forms asking passengers various questions about the purpose of their journey, what made them decide to take the train, whether they could have used another mode of transport, etc. I can remember my parents and I filling in such a survey on a Euston-Manchester train in about the mid to late 1980s.

Such things may still exist today but have probably been largely superseded by online surveys.

Definitely still happens but (forgive the stereotype but it's true) it's usually a little old lady handing out the form.

Indeed, it is commissioned by Passenger Focus, and is the National Passenger Survey, done twice a year. It is also the largest piece of market research undertaken in this country.

 

[matt_world2004]

Tfl Do a similar survey it's called a Rail Origin and Destination Survey. It is designed to cover gaps in oyster data.