Trivia: trains which divide into more than two sections

[PHILIPE]

Happened to look at a Carriage Working Notice earlier today. The main train was as you say, the Brighton portion continued to Hastings via Eastbourne (cue trivia thread about most reversals...), and the third was Ramsgate via Dover, detached at Ashford.

I remember seeing the train from my office up country but I checked Wiki and quoted as I read there. I travelled on it once going on holiday at Folkestone and I thought we had a split at Ashford rather than Sandwich..

 

[norbitonflyer]

I recall my uncle describing the paradox of the Charing Cross to Ramsgate trains which used to split at Ashford, with portions via Dover and via Canterbury - consequently the rear of the train would reach Ramsgate before the front.

 

[30907]

I remember seeing the train from my office up country but I checked Wiki and quoted as I read there. I travelled on it once going on holiday at Folkestone and I thought we had a split at Ashford rather than Sandwich..

Indeed you did.
BTW the Hastings portion was attached at Chester, which meant only 3 reversals not 4

 

[Whisky Papa]

My vote goes for the late 70s (?) Liverpool and Manchester to Glasgow and Edinburgh train. Two halves diesel to Preston, shunt with 86 on the front. Split at Carstairs, with diesel taking the rear Liverpool bit to Edinburgh. Took hours as a consequence.

My school used this service on a trip to Edinburgh in, I think, 1977 or 1978, so your memory is correct timewise. As we had come from Manchester, I assume we must have moved into the portion from Liverpool at Preston - I do remember this was rather late and cut down our time in Edinburgh to only a few hours.

Some might argue as to whether this counts as "dividing into two or more sections" I suppose, but an interesting bit of operation in any case.

 

[ValleyLines142]

There is one which starts with 8/9 coaches splits at Salisbury with the rear unit carrying on to Bristol, then splits again at Yeovil Junction with the rear unit going ECS back to Salisbury, with the front unit carrying on to Exeter. IIRC it's the 19:20 from Waterloo.

Some also split three ways at Salisbury with the rear unit finishing there (I think there is a random one where the front unit goes to Yeovil Junction via Gillingham, the middle unit goes to Yeovil Pen Mill via Westbury and the rear unit terminates at Salisbury)

Any reason why the middle portion of the 1920 runs ECS from Yeovil Junction to Salisbury? Surely it would just make more sense for the front 3 to continue alone to Exeter, the middle 3 go to Bristol and the rear 3 remain at Salisbury?

 

[AndrewE]

Any reason why the middle portion of the 1920 runs ECS from Yeovil Junction to Salisbury? Surely it would just make more sense for the front 3 to continue alone to Exeter, the middle 3 go to Bristol and the rear 3 remain at Salisbury?

Getting a crew (or just a driver) back there ?

 

[30907]

Getting a crew (or just a driver) back there ?

Loading between Salisbury and Yeovil too heavy for 3 cars?

 

[Kite159]

Loading between Salisbury and Yeovil too heavy for 3 cars?

That's my guess as well. Beyond Yeovil 3 coaches is probably ideal.

 

[AndrewE]

That's my guess as well. Beyond Yeovil 3 coaches is probably ideal.

Blimey! Transfer some of the management to TPE, quick. That's an idea that could do with being used more widely... Running a train as 6 cars and then just coming back empty simply because of heavy passenger loadings is an alien concept in a lot of the UK!

 

[ValleyLines142]

Loading between Salisbury and Yeovil too heavy for 3 cars?

I highly doubt a service from Salisbury to Yeovil at 9pm requires 6 carriages?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I highly doubt a service from Salisbury to Yeovil at 9pm requires 6 carriages?

But if it requires 4 or 5, then better to run with 6 than 3 (presumably there isn't a 158 available to join the diagram earlier in the day).

 

[ValleyLines142]

But if it requires 4 or 5, then better to run with 6 than 3 (presumably there isn't a 158 available to join the diagram earlier in the day).

No, I'd have thought just a 3 car 159 would suffice!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

No, I'd have thought just a 3 car 159 would suffice!

But others have suggested that 3 was inadequate... if the only available units are 3-car, then the length has to be a multiple of 3. The greater Yeovil area is popular with second-homers though, so I can see demand being higher than one might think.

I too am surprised that 3 is inadequate at that time in the evening- though at the moment overcapacity is encouraged as it allows greater social distancing.

 

[ValleyLines142]

But others have suggested that 3 was inadequate... if the only available units are 3-car, then the length has to be a multiple of 3. The greater Yeovil area is popular with second-homers though, so I can see demand being higher than one might think.

I too am surprised that 3 is inadequate at that time in the evening- though at the moment overcapacity is encouraged as it allows greater social distancing.

To be fair, nobody above has actually stated that, I just don't see it mind (but yes, at the moment overcapacity is key).

 

[PHILIPE]

Forget all about the capacity issue. The unit is booked to stay at Yeovil Jcn overnight for a starter the next morning.

 

[4REP]

But not into “more than two sections”, as requested.

This isn’t really an attempt to find normal 2 way splits like Basingstoke/Alton...

Back in the 70s or early 80s the waterloo to Bournemouth stopper split twice. 12 car slammer first split at Woking for a portion to Alton then split at Basingstoke/or Southampton where 4 car remained then 4 car went on to Bournemouth on some weekday trains but definitely Sundays if I remember.
Also there were a waterloo to Salisbury/Eastleigh which split at Basingstoke with the class 33 sandwiched between a 4TC and a Vep or Cig unit

 

[30907]

Forget all about the capacity issue. The unit is booked to stay at Yeovil Jcn overnight for a starter the next morning.

RTT suggests a complicated working - the ECS back to SAL is 2 units, one off a previous arrival which also leaves a unit at YVJ overnight. But that may have been overtaken by revised arrangements as PHILIPE says.

 

[PHILIPE]

RTT suggests a complicated working - the ECS back to SAL is 2 units, one off a previous arrival which also leaves a unit at YVJ overnight. But that may have been overtaken by revised arrangements as PHILIPE says.

I must apologise but looked up the wrong working on RTT. It does go back to Salisbury and a later one that stays at Yeovil

 

[30907]

I must apologise but looked up the wrong working on RTT. It does go back to Salisbury and a later one that stays at Yeovil

No worries. The answer may not be the loading, it may be that it's not convenient to detach at SAL then - eg no driver available to shunt it to depot.