Trivia: Trains which take circular routes

[yorkie]

I'm keen to hear of examples of services that take circular routes for example:

• Glasgow Central - Glasgow Central via Cathcart
• London Canon St - London Canon St via Slade Green
• London Waterloo - London Waterloo via Kingston
• Salisbury - Romsey via Eastleigh (a 'figure of 6')
• New Brighton - New Brighton via Liverpool (and similarly Chester / West Kirby)

I am not quite as interested in trains that merely call a station twice due to a reversal, such as some trains via Eastbourne, calling at Hampden Park twice (e.g. Hastings - Brighton via Eastbourne), however any other examples which do a double call would still be useful to hear about.

I am not interested in historical services, only ones that are currently timetabled, however if there is a service which ran in a recent previous timetable and is likely to run again (i.e. may only be a temporary measure during the current period of staff shortages at some TOCs), this would be useful to know; an example of this could be London St Pancras - London St Pancras via the Kent Coast.

Other than the above service patterns/routes, does anyone have any other examples?

Note: I am only including National Rail services in Great Britain in this criteria.

Many thanks in advance

 

[SargeNpton]

Luton-Sutton-Luton

 

[Watershed]

For many years there were services from Manchester Piccadilly back to Piccadilly via Glossop and Hadfield at peak times. Not quite circular but almost all stations were called at twice. However these appear no longer to be in the current or May timetables.

 

[John Webb]

Not quite certain if it fulfils your criteria, but Thameslink were running a frequent service St Albans - Sutton - St Albans with the outward journey via Wimbledon or direct to Sutton and the return journey via the other route. It is currently altered, as mentioned by SargeNapton above, to be Luton - Sutton - Luton instead.

 

[yorkie]

Not quite certain if it fulfils your criteria, but Thameslink were running a frequent service St Albans - Sutton - St Albans with the outward journey via Wimbledon or direct to Sutton and the return journey via the other route. It is currently altered, as mentioned by SargeNapton above, to be Luton - Sutton - Luton instead.

All 'Sutton Loop' services seem to be advertised as terminating at Sutton and I believe that has been the case for quite some time (it's rumoured this is due to @RJ using ticketing loopholes on these services )

It's the same with the 'Fife Circle' which doesn't have any through workings from Edinburgh to Edinburgh any more (again I heard it was due to people buying cheap tickets and using them on the through services which were locomotive hauled at peak times)

Are there any examples of actual through trains (as advertised, with a through headcode, even if they have 'false destinations') which I've missed? The reason I ask is for journey planner testing purposes. Thanks

 

[John Webb]

All these services seem to be advertised as terminating at Sutton and I believe that has been the case for quite some time.

OK - wasn't too certain from looking at the current timetable. I've never used trains going that way so when your question arose I had thought they were still doing the round trip.

 

[yorkie]

OK - wasn't too certain from looking at the current timetable. I've never used trains going that way so when your question arose I had thought they were still doing the round trip.

No worries The trains effectively do just do a round trip with a couple of mins waiting time but it's what's in the timetable that counts

 

[SargeNpton]

Of course, how the trains are advertised in the timetables and how they actually run may not necessarily be the same. That difference may be for commercial reasons or for operating reasons.

 

[Dai Corner]

In the Cardiff Valleys there is 1F29 1016 Treherbert-Abedare which does Treherbert-Radyr-Ninian Park (pass)-Central-Queen Street-Radyr-Aberdare. At Central it joins with 2A24 1024 Bridgend-Aberdare.

Realtime Trains | 1F29 1016 Treherbert to Aberdare | 23/02/2022

Real-time train running information for 1F29 1016 departure from Treherbert to Aberdare on 23/02/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

There used to be more trains taking this route and they may well return in the future.

 

[Magdalia]

I'm keen to hear of examples of services that take circular routes for example:

• London Waterloo - London Waterloo via Kingston

Also, but currently only running at peak hours:

• London Waterloo - London Waterloo via Hounslow

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Presumably the looping course of the Ffestiniog railway near Dduallt isn't quite the kind of "circular route" that @yorkie was really looking for?

 

[All platforms]

For many years there were services from Manchester Piccadilly back to Piccadilly via Glossop and Hadfield at peak times. Not quite circular but almost all stations were called at twice. However these appear no longer to be in the current or May timetables.

There is/was a Sunday service that fulfils the criteria. I was planning to be on it last weekend but it was cancelled at short notice, as have all subsequent Sundays until 8 May. It may not run after that too but RTT show it from 8 May.

Realtime Trains | 0929 Manchester Piccadilly to Manchester Piccadilly | 08/05/2022

Real-time train running information for 0929 departure from Manchester Piccadilly to Manchester Piccadilly on 08/05/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Not sure how to configure it as other members have done but it is Manchester Piccadilly to Manchester Piccadilly. Technically not a circular as it still has to reverse at both Hadfield and Glossop but it is timetabled as Departing/Arriving at the same station

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Believe some trains from Ellesmere Port also loop around the "underground" stations in Liverpool (James Street, Moorfields, Lime Street, Central and then James Street again) before returning to Ellesmere Port.

 

[GCRS]

Believe some trains from Ellesmere Port also loop around the "underground" stations in Liverpool (James Street, Moorfields, Lime Street, Central and then James Street again) before returning to Ellesmere Port.

I was about to mention those. It's the same with the Merseyrail services from Chester.

 

[JRT]

There was an unadvertised Leeds (via Dewsbury) – Brighouse – Halifax (via Bradford) – Leeds train (when the Leeds – Brighouse – Manchester services finished earlier).

 

[L401CJF]

I was about to mention those. It's the same with the Merseyrail services from Chester.

95% of Merseyrail Wirral Line services run in this fashion. Theyre down as:
Chester to Chester
Ellesmere Port to Ellesmere Port
West Kirby to West Kirby
New Brighton to New Brighton.

There are of course a few morning/evening oddities which start mid route, or have been some in the past which start in New Brighton for example and finish in Chester.

 

[Southsider]

The Glasgow Underground, not sure where it starts and stops though!

 

[SuspectUsual]

Being massively pedantic, none of these are truly circular *, are they? More a sort of teardrop shape, with the train returning to its origin from the direction in which it left. Apart from the Glasgow underground and the circle line in the past, are there any journeys past or present that meet the criteria?



* I don't literally mean circular; just that the train arrives back at its origin facing in the direction in which it left

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The Glasgow Underground, not sure where it starts and stops though!

Good shout, although I think @yorkie was primarily looking for currently timetabled National Rail services in Great Britain.

(Think the Glasgow Subway system effectively starts/finishes at Govan/Ibrox or vice-versa given where the Broomloan depot is located).

Being massively pedantic, none of these are truly circular *, are they?

Possibly not, but this would probably be a short thread otherwise.

 

[BeijingDave]

The Salisbury to Romsey service does a weird P shape, stopping at Romsey and eventually terminating at Romsey.

Real Time Live Trains Board | National Rail

Check National Rail live trains real time status and departure boards for all train stations. Get train times, station and platform details before departure.

ojp.nationalrail.co.uk

 

[swt_passenger]

The Salisbury to Romsey service does a weird P shape, stopping at Romsey and eventually terminating at Romsey.

Real Time Live Trains Board | National Rail

Check National Rail live trains real time status and departure boards for all train stations. Get train times, station and platform details before departure.

ojp.nationalrail.co.uk

However we usually refer to it as a “6” shape, I think because that’s how it appears on schematic route maps, as it was described in the first post.

 

[d9009alycidon]

The Hamilton Circle used to work as such, with "via Bellshill" and "via Blantyre" as your guide to the route that would be taken, I think that they still operate this way, but are only shown as working to Motherwell, and now there are variations to the operation with Cumbernauld and Larkhall used as destinations.

Edit - just noticed that the Trainline states that "there are no direct train services from Hamilton Central to Bellshill" so no longer the case

 

[Taunton]

Chester to Chester
Ellesmere Port to Ellesmere Port
West Kirby to West Kirby
New Brighton to New Brighton.

This had a notable change, because some years ago the trains ran from each start point, round the Liverpool loop and to the next point in that list above; over the course of a day trains thus visited each destination in turn. This was introduced because it appeared to offer a saving in turnround time efficiency of I think overall one train and crew in circuit, but the down side was on days when the service had been disrupted on one of the branches it rapidly spread to all, and eventally was given up for the simple plan.

Notably, each of the three main onetime Southern Railway divisions had "roundabout" services in varying combinations back to the London start point. The onetime Central Division has the more unusual arrangement, because from its two termini at Victoria and London Bridge there are a range of suburban lines oriented more or less at 45 degrees between the main lines, and all sorts of looped combinations were operated between them, some variants of which came and went over time.

 

[Lucan]

All 'Sutton Loop' services seem to be advertised as terminating at Sutton

Of course, how the trains are advertised in the timetables and how they actually run may not necessarily be the same.

It would be a bit silly on a circular route if the announcer named every station the train was due to stop at, all the way back to the starting point. The announcement has to stop somewhere and I guess that Sutton as a major station is a convenient name to stop at when you are making announcements at Blackfriars for example.

 

[Bald Rick]

All 'Sutton Loop' services seem to be advertised as terminating at Sutton and I believe that has been the case for quite some time (it's rumoured this is due to @RJ using ticketing loopholes on these services )

It would be a bit silly on a circular route if the announcer named every station the train was due to stop at, all the way back to the starting point. The announcement has to stop somewhere and I guess that Sutton as a major station is a convenient name to stop at when you are making announcements at Blackfriars for example.

they change headcodes at Sutton, and are counted as different trains. In fact each one is officially counted as four trains.

 

[yorkie]

It would be a bit silly on a circular route if the announcer named every station the train was due to stop at, all the way back to the starting point. The announcement has to stop somewhere and I guess that Sutton as a major station is a convenient name to stop at when you are making announcements at Blackfriars for example.

That can be dealt with separately by using false destinations; a train can be in the timetable data as a loop service but limitations can be placed on how far ahead departure screens and automated announcements will announce stops.

What I am interested here is where the timetable data has the service as operating in a loop, irrespective of what announcements are made.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Just because you said you were still interested in hearing about double calls, one I don’t think that has been said is the Clitheroe service, which has traditionally run Clitheroe - Blackburn - Bolton - Manchester - Rochdale - Blackburn, serving Blackburn twice in a similar way to the Romsey “6”.

I believe in the reduced timetable Clitheroe is stopping short at Manchester Victoria for the moment though.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Just because you said you were still interested in hearing about double calls, one I don’t think that has been said is the Clitheroe service, which has traditionally run Clitheroe - Blackburn - Bolton - Manchester - Rochdale - Blackburn, serving Blackburn twice in a similar way to the Romsey “6”.

I believe in the reduced timetable Clitheroe is stopping short at Manchester Victoria for the moment though.

Thought it was currently predominantly Clitheroe > Rochdale (via Bolton and Victoria) (Mon - Fri).

 

[yorkie]

Thought it was currently predominantly ly Clitheroe > Rochdale (via Bolton and Victoria) (Mon - Fri).

Yes it seems to be mostly running as Clitheroe to Rochdale at the moment, but worth bearing in mind for future reference.

 

[Dfatcontroller]

The Hamilton Circle used to work as such, with "via Bellshill" and "via Blantyre" as your guide to the route that would be taken, I think that they still operate this way, but are only shown as working to Motherwell, and now there are variations to the operation with Cumbernauld and Larkhall used as destinations.

Edit - just noticed that the Trainline states that "there are no direct train services from Hamilton Central to Bellshill" so no longer the case

Change at Motherwell by remaining on the train.