Trivia: Unusual / Interesting Calling Patterns?

[A S Leib]

There's some Chiltern services which call at combinations of Harrow-on-the-Hill, Chorleywood and Chalfont and Latimer but not Rickmansworth, which I find odd as Harrow-on-the-Hill has a far more frequent service and Chorleywood and Chalfont & Latimer have fewer passengers than Rickmansworth without having fewer services (Amersham has higher passenger numbers and doesn't have Chesham Met services, so calling there but not Rickmansworth makes more sense).

• 05:12 from Aylesbury Vale Parkway is fast from Amersham to Harrow-on-the-Hill
• 06:16 from AVP is nonstop south of Amersham
• 07:00 from AVP only skips Rickmansworth
• 07:20 from AVP is fast from Amersham to Harrow-on-the-Hill
• 07:49 from AVP is fast from Amersham to Harrow-on-the-Hill
• 08:09 from AVP only skips Rickmansworth
• 17:11 Marylebone – Aylesbury only skips Rickmansworth
• 17:30 MYB – AVP is fast to Great Missenden
• 17:59 MYB – AVP is fast to Amersham
• 18:30 MYB – AVP is fast to Great Missenden
• 18:41 MYB – AYS only skips Rickmansworth

The 05:37 Met service gets to Baker Street at the same time as the first Chiltern service of the day gets to Marylebone so it skipping Rickmansworth isn't a massive inconvenience, but only having one southbound Chiltern service between 07:11 and 09:22 and no services from Marylebone between 16:41 and 17:41, and 18:11 and 18:59 does seem strange. Are the platforms too curved at Rickmansworth for 165s past a certain length, or is pathing a likelier issue?

 

[Deepgreen]

Obviously not. I was just trying to be helpful and clarify the frequency of the Weybridge to Waterloo via Hounslow service pattern for those not familiar with the route, to give a bit of background as to what level of ‘unusual’ that particular journey’s calling pattern is compared to the number of other journeys per day that run over the same route.

I was only joking.

 

[Bumpkin]

2D03 (05:39 WAT - GLD via EPS) and 2D05 (06:09 WAT - GLD via EPS) run fast from Effingham Junction to London Road (Guildford), omitting the calls at Horsley and Clandon, the only trains to do so (apart from the 1Gxx services that don't call anywhere between GLD and SUR)

 

[70014IronDuke]

Don't think it's been mentioned, but the Grantham - Skegness has one, possibly two odd calling patterns.
Clearly there are 'major' stations on the route - viz Sleaford and Boston - plus what the TOC deems 'important' stations, namely Heckington and Wainfleet, where more or less everything stops. Most of the other stations are 'minor' getting a minimum school-train service (if that), but Rauceby gaining two-three 'extras' along with Ancaster, which has one extra each way. I presume these are supported by traffic demands.
The really odd one - unless it's some kind of misprint in the TT - is the 09.55 Nottingham - Skegness which calls at Thorpe Culvert at 11.34. This is otherwise very definitely a 'minor' station on the route. What's more the 09.55 ex Nottingham is routed directly from Bottesford to Sleaford, avoiding Grantham.

I don't think there is any equialent 'extra' in the opposite direction, so it appears to be a random mystery. Perhaps the planners needed to lose some minutes for pathing purposes? I don't know.

 

[Halwynd]

I'll always remember the 80s Holidaymaker Express services that had a very limited number of stops. Two I remember using were a Paignton - Paddington that was non-stop Teignmouth - Reading, and a Penzance service I boarded at Chesterfield which the public timetable showed as calling at Derby, Tamworth and then Totnes, but with a lengthy unadvertised stop at Bristol TM for a crew change.

 

[ServerHoster]

For some reason, the first southbound Manchester Piccadilly-Crewe Northern Stopper on a Sunday doesn't stop at Holmes Chapel.

 

[Western 52]

I'll always remember the 80s Holidaymaker Express services that had a very limited number of stops. Two I remember using were a Paignton - Paddington that was non-stop Teignmouth - Reading, and a Penzance service I boarded at Chesterfield which the public timetable showed as calling at Derby, Tamworth and then Totnes, but with a lengthy unadvertised stop at Bristol TM for a crew change.

I think there was a holiday train at that time which did something like Newton Abbot to Chesterfield non stop. Probably a crew change somewhere though.

 

[PaulJ]

The 1712 SouthEastern stopper service from London Victoria to Gillingham calls additionally at Crofton Park and Bellingham for no apparent reason.

 

[dk1]

I'll always remember the 80s Holidaymaker Express services that had a very limited number of stops. Two I remember using were a Paignton - Paddington that was non-stop Teignmouth - Reading, and a Penzance service I boarded at Chesterfield which the public timetable showed as calling at Derby, Tamworth and then Totnes, but with a lengthy unadvertised stop at Bristol TM for a crew change.

The GNER HST on the Paignton-Newcastle was also booked non-stop Torquay to Brum.

 

[Halwynd]

I think there was a holiday train at that time which did something like Newton Abbot to Chesterfield non stop. Probably a crew change somewhere though.

I seem to remember that, can you remember what the service was?

The GNER HST on the Paignton-Newcastle was also booked non-stop Torquay to Brum.

That's a fair run too, didn't realise there were any like that after privatisation. I remember a cracking run on a diverted Wessex Scot HST in 2002 under Virgin, Birmingham - Edinburgh non-stop with just a crew change at Newcastle when the WCML was closed for engineering work.

Just found a carriage label on Flickr... Birmingham - Truro!

Carriage Label: Penzance

British Railways 1980s Carriage label BR21717/41 CC160 Manchester Piccadilly to Penzance

www.flickr.com

 

[dk1]

I seem to remember that, can you remember what the service was?


That's a fair run too, didn't realise there were any like that after privatisation. I remember a cracking run on a diverted Wessex Scot HST in 2002 under Virgin, Birmingham - Edinburgh non-stop with just a crew change at Newcastle when the WCML was closed for engineering work.

Just found a carriage label on Flickr... Birmingham - Truro!

Carriage Label: Penzance

British Railways 1980s Carriage label BR21717/41 CC160 Manchester Piccadilly to Penzance

www.flickr.com

I thought some of the early privatisation days were some of the best. All very sterile these days in comparison.

 

[notyolosmh]

CrossCountry have 4 services stopping at Severn Tunnel Junction

1V01 Birmingham New St - Cardiff Central

1M00 Cardiff Central - Nottingham

1V02 Birmingham New St - Cardiff Central

1M85 Cardiff Central - Nottingham

 

[cle]

The 1712 SouthEastern stopper service from London Victoria to Gillingham calls additionally at Crofton Park and Bellingham for no apparent reason.

Probably to slow it down a bit for pathing, and add a peak call for two of the busier stations in the process.

 

[Harpo]

I think that's the Paddington – Swansea reversing at Temple Meads and Parkway; if so, is that the only GWR service to reverse twice outside engineering works, given that there's currently no GWR services west of Carmarthen?

2M81 0635 Salisbury - Woster F St
2G91 2007 Westbury - Cheltenham Spa

PS. The first reversal isn’t Bristol.

 

[LowLevel]

Don't think it's been mentioned, but the Grantham - Skegness has one, possibly two odd calling patterns.
Clearly there are 'major' stations on the route - viz Sleaford and Boston - plus what the TOC deems 'important' stations, namely Heckington and Wainfleet, where more or less everything stops. Most of the other stations are 'minor' getting a minimum school-train service (if that), but Rauceby gaining two-three 'extras' along with Ancaster, which has one extra each way. I presume these are supported by traffic demands.
The really odd one - unless it's some kind of misprint in the TT - is the 09.55 Nottingham - Skegness which calls at Thorpe Culvert at 11.34. This is otherwise very definitely a 'minor' station on the route. What's more the 09.55 ex Nottingham is routed directly from Bottesford to Sleaford, avoiding Grantham.

I don't think there is any equialent 'extra' in the opposite direction, so it appears to be a random mystery. Perhaps the planners needed to lose some minutes for pathing purposes? I don't know.

The Thorpe Culvert stop on 2S93 was inserted to avoid extra standing time at Wainfleet a few years ago (I think it was booked one year to follow the rail head treatment train) and subsequently never removed even though the RHTT path has changed.

 

[OrangeJuice]

For some reason, the first southbound Manchester Piccadilly-Crewe Northern Stopper on a Sunday doesn't stop at Holmes Chapel.

This is unusual, skipping goostrey and chelford is fairly common. I think it's because the turnarounds at Crewe on a Sunday morning are the minimum permitted and presumably they couldn't path it from Manchester with the stop at Holmes Chapel

 

[Harpo]

There used to be an early morning service ex Didcot (or it may have been Oxford) that called at Cholsey, Goring, Pangbourne, Tilehurst, Maidenhead then fast to Paddington. Missed out Reading in order to give those of us boarding at Maidenhead a fighting chance of getting on.

I used to use it when it was an HST. It missed Reading because it couldn’t call, its UR-UM slot at Maidenhead was so tight. The path through Goring could be no earlier (not sure there was a platform dwell available for it at Reading) and its slot at Maidenhead no later.

An irresistible force senior lady at FGW used to dread her discussions about fast Maidenheads with the immovable object that stood as MP for Maidenhead!

Finally, in BR days, the 50-hauled 16.20 Paddington-Oxford was first stop Maidenhead, calling there on the DM.

 

[cjw714]

There's the Mon-Fri Leicester to Gloucester departure at 2020 (from LEI) which is a Cross Country extension of the regular Birmingham shuttle.
I think I know why it runs like this but it always seems an anomaly, particularly as there's apparently no return journey.

It's not quite a return journey but there is a wonderfully random Monday to Friday 06 25 departure from Bristol Temple Meads going all the way to Stansted Airport. (On Saturdays it starts at Gloucester at 07 05)

 

[A S Leib]

Monday to Friday there's a 6 35 train from Salisbury to Worcester Foregate Street and a 20 06 from Westbury to Cheltenham both of which reverse at Swindon and Gloucester. On Saturdays there is an 11 12 service from Salisbury to Worcester Foregate Street, an 18 12 from Salisbury to Cheltenham and a 19 13 from Salisbury to Worcester Shrub Hill all of which reverse at Temple Meads and Gloucester. There don't appear to be any similar services on Sunday and in the opposite direction start at Gloucester so avoid the double reverse.

2M81 0635 Salisbury - Woster F St
2G91 2007 Westbury - Cheltenham Spa

PS. The first reversal isn’t Bristol.

Thank you. As far as other services with at least two reversals go, I know there's Pembrokeshire – Cardiff (Carmarthen, Swansea), the aforementioned Nottingham – Bournemouth (Derby, Birmingham, Reading) (although I think the plan for restoring hourly Newcastle – Reading services doesn't include the Southampton extensions, so they'll just have one reversal) and Liverpool – Norwich (Ely, Sheffield); I can't think of any others outside engineering work (do any of the Sleeper services reverse twice on diversion?).

 

[dk1]

It's not quite a return journey but there is a wonderfully random Monday to Friday 06 25 departure from Bristol Temple Meads going all the way to Stansted Airport. (On Saturdays it starts at Gloucester at 07 05)

Until a few years ago it was a daily service from Gloucester.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Nov 2024 ==

These trains must be the only time a 170 is seen at Temple Meads in passenger service.

 

[Falcon1200]

There used to be an early morning service ex Didcot (or it may have been Oxford) that called at Cholsey, Goring, Pangbourne, Tilehurst, Maidenhead then fast to Paddington.

I was on one such train, way back in the days of loco-hauled stock. As we departed Oxford a passenger asked me whether it stopped at Reading, to which I replied no; Before I could tell him to remain aboard and change at Didcot he flung open a door and jumped from the moving train into the platform!

There are still a few Up direction longer-distance GW trains which call at Maidenhead in the morning peak, eg 1P11 0514 Worcester Shrub Hill-Paddington at 0706/7; But strangely only one in the Down direction, 1D46 2314 Paddington-Oxford at 2337/8!

 

[duffield]

I'll always remember the 80s Holidaymaker Express services that had a very limited number of stops. Two I remember using were a Paignton - Paddington that was non-stop Teignmouth - Reading, and a Penzance service I boarded at Chesterfield which the public timetable showed as calling at Derby, Tamworth and then Totnes, but with a lengthy unadvertised stop at Bristol TM for a crew change.

I travelled on that Paddington to Paignton service between Reading and Teignmouth as a child, with my parents. I guess it must have been very cheap since we didn't have much money for things like that.

 

[The Prisoner]

I seem to recall there was a random short lived late night southbound TPE service which I think came in for the December 2019 timetable which called at Penrith around midnight heading south from Scotland to Manchester (Airport?). Ran non stop to Preston from there presumedly as Oxenholme and Lancaster were closed at that time of night. Disappeared when covid hit. Can't find the 2019 Dec timetable to get more details.

Going back a few years there was an HST from Didcot to Paddington in the morning peak (0719?) which used to stop at all stations to Tilehurst and then I think ran non stop to London missing Reading.

in the current timetable the 0351, 0455 from Chester to Manchester Airport and 2320 return and 0026 Piccadilly to Chester all skip Warrington Bank Quay (largest intermediate stop) whilst calling at all the other usual stops. Assume TfW don't want to pay for the station to be open.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I seem to recall there was a random short lived late night southbound TPE service which I think came in for the December 2019 timetable which called at Penrith around midnight heading south from Scotland to Manchester (Airport?). Ran non stop to Preston from there presumedly as Oxenholme and Lancaster were closed at that time of night. Disappeared when covid hit. Can't find the 2019 Dec timetable to get more details.

The partial timings (midweek) were...

Edinburgh depart... 2212
Haymarket pick up... 2216
Lockerbie call... 2316
Carlisle call... 2338

continuing to Manchester Piccadilly (on a Wednesday) otherwise Manchester Airport. Slightly different earlier timings on a Sunday. Didn't operate Saturdays.

Anyone got the timings South of Carlisle?

 

[jfollows]

The partial timings (midweek) were...

Edinburgh depart... 2212
Haymarket pick up... 2216
Lockerbie call... 2316
Carlisle call... 2338

continuing to Manchester Piccadilly (on a Wednesday) otherwise Manchester Airport. Slightly different earlier timings on a Sunday. Didn't operate Saturdays.

Anyone got the timings South of Carlisle?

In the attached table

Preston 00:46-00:47
Piccadilly 01:40
Airport WX 01:59

There was also 21:01 Glasgow-Lockerbie-Carlisle-Penrith-Preston 00:12

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@jfollows. Thanks. If I'm reading that 2019/20 timetable extract correctly, the 2212 TPE (ex Edinburgh Waverley) didn't actually call at Penrith, or indeed anywhere else between Carlisle and Manchester, except for Preston?

 

[jfollows]

@jfollows. Thanks. If I'm reading that 2019/20 timetable extract correctly, the 2212 TPE (ex Edinburgh Waverley) didn't actually call at Penrith, or indeed anywhere else between Carlisle and Manchester, except Preston?

Yes, it was the earlier Glasgow-Preston which called at Penrith.

 

[The Prisoner]

Thanks all. Utterly random services! Even down to the 2212 ex Edinburgh not going to the Airport on a Wednesday, but doing so for the rest of the week, and yes it was the 2101 from Glasgow to Preston which called at Penrith (2257) which ran non stop to Preston, and not the later Edinburgh to Manchester (Airport sometimes) service.

 

[12LDA28C]

The 05:37 Met service gets to Baker Street at the same time as the first Chiltern service of the day gets to Marylebone so it skipping Rickmansworth isn't a massive inconvenience, but only having one southbound Chiltern service between 07:11 and 09:22 and no services from Marylebone between 16:41 and 17:41, and 18:11 and 18:59 does seem strange. Are the platforms too curved at Rickmansworth for 165s past a certain length, or is pathing a likelier issue?

Not too curved but Rickmansworth is the only Met line station served by Chiltern that can only accommodate 5-car trains. There have historically been 'fast' Met trains running non-stop Great Missenden or Amersham to Marylebone and vice versa for many years but I suspect the ones that just miss Rickmansworth were either planned to be 6-cars at some point (even if not since Covid), or miss it for pathing reasons.

 

[GW43125]

I seem to recall there was a random short lived late night southbound TPE service which I think came in for the December 2019 timetable which called at Penrith around midnight heading south from Scotland to Manchester (Airport?). Ran non stop to Preston from there presumedly as Oxenholme and Lancaster were closed at that time of night. Disappeared when covid hit. Can't find the 2019 Dec timetable to get more details.

ca.2021 there used to be a morning Liverpool-Glasgow which called at Preston then fast to Penrith and Carlisle. 66 minutes Preston to Carlisle with one stop, and a nice connection into the 10.13 via Barrow. A handy first rover move as it was the first valid train off Preston, bang on 09.00!