Trivia - when first class is worse than standard.

[dorsetdesiro]

Thanks for confirming about GWR 387s and 158s.

I'm bit surprised as SWR's 158s has FC that I assumed GWR's may have the same as they run long distance to Portsmouth & Weymouth? Also surprised about the Castle sets without FC running as far to Penzance & Exeter.

Has it been confirmed the SWR 158s will retain FC once refurbished?

Is it correct that GWR intend to run 387 services as far as Cardiff but no FC from Paddington?

 

[Bletchleyite]

In a similar vein, I would also nominate SWR's Sprinter fleet. I'm no fan of the original BR Seats used in standard, but all First brings you is a large and rather firm seat in a 2+1 Formation. Possibly the only benefit at the moment is that they have plug sockets, whereas standard does not. There isn't even a partition door separating the two classes these days either. Find yourself a table seat in standard (without any boxes underneath) and it makes for a fairly pleasant journey.

Now, I wonder what the future refurbishment holds for this area... It will be noticeably worse if they chose the same FC seats as the 444s, in 2+2, after plug socket fitment to the rest of the unit.

Some of us place a very high value on a seat that is both window and aisle if the train is busy enough that you won't be sure of a pair to yourself, even if the physical seat was identical to Standard.

Notably, charter operators tend to charge more for the 1 side than the 2 side, recognising this.

 

[JonathanH]

I'm bit surprised as SWR's 158s has FC that I assumed GWR's may have the same as they run long distance to Portsmouth & Weymouth? Also surprised about the Castle sets without FC running as far to Penzance & Exeter.

The HSTs are running on local stopping services that happen to be strung together as one train. If anyone wants first class they take a quicker IET service.

Even on SWR, first class is only really justified because the trains run into London.

Is it correct that GWR intend to run 387 services as far as Cardiff but no FC from Paddington?

Why is that even a problem? They are likely to be additional services. The vast majority of travellers don't care one bit about the availability of first class.

Actually brings me to another point about first class away from the main long distance routes. First class is worse than standard when it becomes a 'magnet' for unruly passengers on local trains and legitimate passengers feel they have to leave the compartment.

 

[norbitonflyer]

The HSTs are running on local stopping services that happen to be strung together as one train. If anyone wants first class they take a quicker IET service.

Even on SWR, first class is only really justified because the trains run into London.


Why is that even a problem? They are likely to be additional services. The vast majority of travellers don't care one bit about the availability of first class.

When my best-beloved did a lot of business travel, for which her grade entitled her to travel First Class, she always checked with me whether the rolling stock on the line in question would be in compartments (which were still a thing on some lines, particularly south of the Thames) because if so she said it wasn't worth her employer (HMG) paying the extra - what she needed was a table to work at.

 

[Sussex Ben]

Southern 377/1s and /2s give you exactly the same seat in 1st, with the added “benefit” of being located above the bogies at the end of each set, so you get the worst ride quality as well. At least the /4s have a door between both classes to make it feel slightly more exclusive.

 

[Chiltern006]

every electrostar bar the 379s makes the whole thing not worth it. similarly now with 350s and 444s

700s are only good because it’s declassified

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Not sure what the situation is now they have moved to EMR but when at GE the 360s have the same seats in first class used by TPE in standard.