Two new stations: Bermuda Park and Coventry (previously Ricoh) Arena

[Xenophon PCDGS]

As a comparison to this fiasco, it puts the Todmorden Chord project delay that ensued into perspective and indeed, makes that project looked as if was "fast-tracked" in comparison...

 

[GazUk]

Just out of interest, how long would it take for a qualified driver to learn how to drive new traction??

I saw a pacer for sale the other day, £25K that would suit this line down to a Tee, and would fit in the platforms too If Councillors were looking at at this ViaRail D-train (why would councillors be looking at trains anyway???) Surely something that has a similar use of technoligy and is proven in use, like a Parry People Mover or one of their larger designs be a better option to look at?

 

[HLE]

Traction courses vary in length from few days to a few weeks. More likely to be a few weeks.

Coventry city council were looking at trains because they did not like London Midland telling them that no new stock was going to be used on the line. Turned out London Midland had told them this years ago.

In my opinion it's one of the reasons CCC are dragging their heels on handing the station over to London Midland.

 

[Chris125]

Surely something that has a similar use of technoligy and is proven in use, like a Parry People Mover or one of their larger designs be a better option to look at?

The only Parry People Mover design 'proven in use' is that used on the Stourbridge Town branch, which itself is a pretty unique and relatively undemanding operation.

 

[LesF]

HLE, can you find just how often the 153 returns to Tyseley and what is done to it? Regular or as needed?
GazUk, the Parry people mover is a very lightweight vehicle operating alone. It couldn't share tracks with the freight on Cov-Nun. The firm that built is went bust for a lack of orders.
CCC say it isn't safe to operate a single car with the crowds coming out of the Ricoh. Did you ever hear of a bus cancelled because there are too many passengers?

 

[PHILIPE]

HLE, can you find just how often the 153 returns to Tyseley and what is done to it? Regular or as needed?
GazUk, the Parry people mover is a very lightweight vehicle operating alone. It couldn't share tracks with the freight on Cov-Nun. The firm that built is went bust for a lack of orders.
CCC say it isn't safe to operate a single car with the crowds coming out of the Ricoh. Did you ever hear of a bus cancelled because there are too many passengers?

153 swapped daily. ECS ex New St last thing at night and stables in Coventry Yard, and ECS to Tyseley off last Nuneaton in evening.

 

[Philip Elliott]

It looks like the 'fresh' set detaches off the 20.40 Rugeley TV - New Street.

 

[HLE]

HLE, can you find just how often the 153 returns to Tyseley and what is done to it? Regular or as needed?
GazUk, the Parry people mover is a very lightweight vehicle operating alone. It couldn't share tracks with the freight on Cov-Nun. The firm that built is went bust for a lack of orders.
CCC say it isn't safe to operate a single car with the crowds coming out of the Ricoh. Did you ever hear of a bus cancelled because there are too many passengers?

LesF, as Phillipe said its supposed to go back to Tyseley every night, however that doesn't always happen every day, sometimes it's a case of dumping it in Coventry Yard read for the morning if it doesn't go back.

From what I can gather when it goes back at night it receives a clean and gets quickly checked by the fitters , although don't hold me on that one. It's usually then out the next day on the rugeleys coupled up to a 170/172.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It looks like the 'fresh' set detaches off the 20.40 Rugeley TV - New Street.

Yeah we get rugeleys seconds!

 

[tbtc]

Centro are getting excited about Sprint again, even though 3 cities - Leeds, York and Swansea - have all bought Sprint buses then scrapped them

AIUI the York vehicles moved to Leeds to take over the beefed up 72 to Bradford (every seven minutes)?

I should know this, but on the Coventry to nuneaton line is it served by 1 Class class 153? And regarding the lack of available stock (not knowing the exact Diesel stock in the Centro region) there are in total of 61 diesel units that LM have across their network,surely they could free up maybe 1 or 2 x2 car units to be used,they can't all be used at the sametime,can they or is it not that simple??

The question I'd ask about LM is why (when they got dozens of new DMU carriages - the 172s - they didn't use some of the surplus units on the Nuneaton line - given that they gained more coaches than the combined number of 150s lost to FGW/ Northern).

To me, that suggests that they don't see much benefit to increasing capacity on this branch - e.g. they could have put a freed up 150 on to replace the 153.

But then, how do you cope with a line that can't justify more than a single coach train most of the week but may have to shift tens of thousands of people to/from dozens of sporting events a year?

What balance to you have between redundant capacity and being able to cope with absolute peak demand? It's a question that's got implications for a number of threads (should we built a branch line to some rural backwater that'll be virtually empty most months of the year but be busy in the summer holidays or be a very useful diversion for a couple of weekends?).

Maybe the Coventry - Nuneaton line is a good benchmark for an enthusiast's optimism/ pragmatism... do you build a double track line with stations capable of taking a full take HST so that there's sufficient capacity to cope with football/ rugby events... or do you put a single coach DMU down a single track line (and not stop at the Arena when there are matches)?

Whilst the Coventry example has made the national press (even Private Eye featuring it), I think that some of the criticism is a bit unfair. There are other stations closed at the busiest times because they couldn't cope with demand - ask any Arsenal supporter!

That's something I'm not so sure about. Yes, it would be a waste at current loadings but are current loadings low because the service is so poor? Connections aren't great at either end and the current frequency isn't enough to tempt people off the roads

Given that it's a fairly clockface hourly service, and that both Coventry and Nuneaton see a variety of departures per hour in different directions, which connection do you think should be improved at either end?

e.g. if you could retime the current service to be ten minutes later/ twenty minutes earlier (etc), which connection would you prioritise? The XC service from Coventry towards Oxford? The LM service up the Trent Valley? The XC service from Nuneaton towards Leicester?

I agree that the frequency isn't brilliant for such a short line, but wondered what you meant re connections.

GazUk, the Parry people mover is a very lightweight vehicle operating alone. It couldn't share tracks with the freight on Cov-Nun

It's a shame there's (so much) freight to stop something "non standard" being an option (given crash worthiness etc).

This could be a good test bed for a 278 though (60mph stock ought to be able to cope with a timetable that gives it just over twenty minutes to cover roughly ten miles of track).

CCC say it isn't safe to operate a single car with the crowds coming out of the Ricoh. Did you ever hear of a bus cancelled because there are too many passengers?

In fairness, a bus driver can count how many people board their bus and can make a decision on when the vehicle is getting too full to allow more people on board.

A Guard (on a train with multiple doors) doesn't have that luxury .

 

[Tetchytyke]

It's not the safety on the train that's the issue, it's the safety on the station. 5000 people won't fit on a 153 and the people who don't will have a long wait for the next train, which they also won't fit on.

There is no reason why London Midland couldn't put longer trains on on match say, except the fact GoVia won't knowingly spend a single penny of their own money on anything. You see the same at Villa Park.

 

[HLE]

Coventry to Nuneaton is double tracked throughout , 45mph line speed though - walk in the park for a HST - and it would make things interesting at Bedworth during leaf fall!

Certainly in the peaks it could do with a second 153 - it's usually full to the rafters - but then most lines could do with more capacity in the peaks.

There are certain things being talked about at the minute that may happen on the line in the next 6-12 months - but it's not confirmed yet.

 

[bnsf734]

I heard something locally that the reason why trains cannot serve Ricoh Arena after matches is that the subway/underpass to the platform is too narrow for the crowds after matches, which is why the safety committee will not give approval for the trains to run after matches.

 

[geoffk]

can anyone confirm the opening date for these stations as 13th December?

 

[The Ham]

Coventry to Nuneaton is double tracked throughout , 45mph line speed though - walk in the park for a HST - and it would make things interesting at Bedworth during leaf fall!

Certainly in the peaks it could do with a second 153 - it's usually full to the rafters - but then most lines could do with more capacity in the peaks.

There are certain things being talked about at the minute that may happen on the line in the next 6-12 months - but it's not confirmed yet.

The trains are hardly empty off peak either and a more frequent service would attract more passengers to use it (especially given that two services would limit the maximum gap between connections) potentially offsetting a fair chunk of the extra cost of a second service.

If planned in advance it shouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility (at least on a weekend) to switch the 153's with another pair of units so that there was more capacity for the match but less capacity on other services which may not need so much at that time.

In doing so the overheads of LM stay basicly the same (no extra units, no extra staff, etc. although a bit of extra route learning and/or unit teaching along with some extra fuel and track access charges) but with the extra revenue from the fans using the trains. Yes, a few hundred lots of returns to either Nuneaton or Coventry won't add up to a lot, assuming that the overheads can be kept down and the extra income multiplied up over a year it could be worth the effort.

 

[HLE]

can anyone confirm the opening date for these stations as 13th December?

Honest answer? No one knows.

Don't forget the planning application for Bermuda Park station won't be decided until the 11th of December so I'm guessing the powers that be aren't going to open the arena station without opening Bermuda.

I'll happily bet that the stations won't open until 2016.

 

[geoffk]

Don't forget the planning application for Bermuda Park station won't be decided until the 11th of December

Planning application? The station has been built, hasn't it?

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Given that it's a fairly clockface hourly service, and that both Coventry and Nuneaton see a variety of departures per hour in different directions, which connection do you think should be improved at either end?

e.g. if you could retime the current service to be ten minutes later/ twenty minutes earlier (etc), which connection would you prioritise? The XC service from Coventry towards Oxford? The LM service up the Trent Valley? The XC service from Nuneaton towards Leicester?

I agree that the frequency isn't brilliant for such a short line, but wondered what you meant re connections.

The frequency of the service would be my main complaint, but the connection from the branch to the southbound XC service towards Leamington - Oxford (etc) isn't very attractive at all. I think if the train was at least half hourly in either direction then not only would it tempt more locals to use it but it would probably mean more through passengers make connections too, East Midlands to South Coast avoiding cross London transfers and the time penalty changing at Birmingham would be worthwhile, right?

 

[HLE]

Don't forget the planning application for Bermuda Park station won't be decided until the 11th of December

Planning application? The station has been built, hasn't it?

It has and has been gathering dust for 3 months.

Those in charge of the project at Warwickshire County Council in their infinite wisdom haven't compiled with a planning condition.....which stated a mini roundabout had to be constructed at the end of St Georges Way before the station could open.

Now they've had to submit another application to get around the condition

I'm surprised the local press haven't reported it yet
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The frequency of the service would be my main complaint, but the connection from the branch to the southbound XC service towards Leamington - Oxford (etc) isn't very attractive at all. I think if the train was at least half hourly in either direction then not only would it tempt more locals to use it but it would probably mean more through passengers make connections too, East Midlands to South Coast avoiding cross London transfers and the time penalty changing at Birmingham would be worthwhile, right?

Watch this space on that one Cherry picker.......

 

[GazUk]

I should really know more about my local area- never knew there was freight that went down the coventry to nuneaton route,i do now though

Regarding the PPM company, i thought they were still going,but were doing work with another local company to them,and yes i know that the PPM units are unique to the Stourbridge branch,but i remember seeing plans/drawings of potential diffferent types of traction,that if authorities were interested in, could be made to order.

Don't forget the planning application for Bermuda Park station won't be decided until the 11th of December

Planning application? The station has been built, hasn't it?

I am sure i saw a picture or 2 of some steps coming down from the platforms at Bermuda Park last month making me think it's ready to operate too, i reckon there is some paperwork all to do with this, all folded up to stop someones' table from wobbling in a office somewhere in the midlands

 

[HLE]

I should really know more about my local area- never knew there was freight that went down the coventry to nuneaton route,i do now though

Regarding the PPM company, i thought they were still going,but were doing work with another local company to them,and yes i know that the PPM units are unique to the Stourbridge branch,but i remember seeing plans/drawings of potential diffferent types of traction,that if authorities were interested in, could be made to order.



I am sure i saw a picture or 2 of some steps coming down from the platforms at Bermuda Park last month making me think it's ready to operate too, i reckon there is some paperwork all to do with this, all folded up to stop someones' table from wobbling in a office somewhere in the midlands

It's all about paperwork.

Rather someone forgetting to read it. The link was posted up thread but here it is again.

https://planning.warwickshire.gov.u...splay>Search Criteria</a>'>Search Results</a>

 

[pt_mad]

As regards longer trains required for increased capacity, has no progress been made with looking at the Vivarail Diesel converted tube trains?

Seem a perfect option for this route on the face of it.

 

[nuneatonmark]

Re vivarail, yes it would be a good solution but getting that going would require some initiative and leadership, two things rather lacking so far in this project.

As for more trains per hour, this will only happen when the new bay at Coventry is constructed and associated signalling changes. Given the record of the councils involved, don't hold your breath! I don't see it happening before 2020. In between time, the stations WILL open, people will try to use the service and find they can't on the dogbox even at off-peak times cue outraged passengers.

 

[Kingsbury Jn.]

It's not the safety on the train that's the issue, it's the safety on the station. 5000 people won't fit on a 153 and the people who don't will have a long wait for the next train, which they also won't fit on.

There is no reason why London Midland couldn't put longer trains on on match say, except the fact GoVia won't knowingly spend a single penny of their own money on anything. You see the same at Villa Park.

I believe that a class 323 unit runs ECS via soho & Perry Barr and forms a service from Witton after matches at Villa park. Maybe the Samaritans sponsor it?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

As regards longer trains required for increased capacity, has no progress been made with looking at the Vivarail Diesel converted tube trains?

Seem a perfect option for this route on the face of it.

Has the Class 230 unit now taken...and passed... all its proving tests?

 

[HLE]

Forget phase 2 being started for the next few years.

The best thing the council could do is outsource the whole project from now on - then it might stand a chance of being done before 2020

 

[LesF]

Yes HLE, local councils should not be doing rail projects with no experience of them. You will see what I mean when you see what they are doing to Coventry station. The WMCA will come into existence next April even though we don't know exactly what it will look like. I expect it will incorporate Centro and that they will take over the WM elements of the London Midland franchise when it finishes. We should then have a team with the range of skills to cope.
Re Vivarail D-trains, yes they look promising but they are not yet cleared for mainline use, no-one has the money to buy them for Cov-Nun, and LM will not do anything unless someone pays them. Frustrating.

 

[pt_mad]

Re Vivarail D-trains, yes they look promising but they are not yet cleared for mainline use, no-one has the money to buy them for Cov-Nun, and LM will not do anything unless someone pays them. Frustrating.

Needs one of the leasing companies to purchase some, clear them, and offer them to the route operator.


Or let someone like DRS run with two locos and some coaches.

 

[nuneatonmark]

Latest update

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/ricoh-arena-railway-station-opening-10551010?

or rather the news is there is no news!

 

[HLE]

What annoys me is that the local Nuneaton paper hasn't reported the fact that Bermuda won't open because someone *possibly* didn't do their job correctly !

 

[OwlMan]

Update in today's Nuneaton local rag

Aware of the frustration growing over the fact that neither new stations at Bermuda or at the Ricoh Arena are open, Nuneaton MP Marcus Jones raised these concerns with the government Rail Minister Claire Perry.
He, like so many others, is desperate to get the scheme, known as the NUCKLE rail project, back on track.
Now, following the talks, the town's voice in Parliament is hopeful that the station opening dates will be 'imminent'.
As featured in the News, plans to open the new station in St George's Way have hit the buffers three times so far this year.
The local MP met with Ms Perry to raise concerns at the ongoing delay over the opening of the Bermuda and Ricoh stations.
He also raised concerns about the provision of trains to the Ricoh Arena on matchdays and the Hendy Review, which put into question the funding for the completion of the project.
Following the meeting the local MP has now received confirmation that the new stations should be opened imminently, following talks with Network Rail. Confirmation has also been received that the £5million of government funding for the completion of the project will be honoured.
"This project is vital for our area," he said.
"This is a project that was talked about for years under the last Labour government, but in reality the starting gun was not fired until 2012. Since then technical and funding difficulties have blighted the project, but progress is finally now being made and I look forward to seeing these stations opened.

"I am particularly pleased that the Department for Transport has confirmed that the £5m contribution via Network Rail has been confirmed following the comprehensive review conducted recently by Sir Peter Hendy.
"That confirmation should end a great deal of uncertainty about this project and Cont. from front.
means we can now set our sights on finally completing this important scheme."
Speaking about the matchday service at the station near to the Ricoh Arena, Mr Jones said: "The minister was sympathetic to my concern over matchday services to the Ricoh and I will continue to press for a full service from Nuneaton to the Ricoh Arena on match days," he said.
There is still another shadow hanging over the project – a car park to serve the new station at Bermuda.
Warwickshire County Council wants to buy land off UPS in St George's Way to create the new car park.
But UPS want to use its land to spend millions of pounds on creating a new logistics facility, which could create a significant number of jobs.
They said that this plan would be doomed if the county council buys the land under a Compulsory Purchase Order (CPO).
A meeting was held between the firm and the county council at the end of last month but, at the time of publication, a spokesperson for UPS said that the firm had nothing further to add.

Read more: http://www.nuneaton-news.co.uk/Time-nuckle-rail-plan/story-28321348-detail/story.html#ixzz3toficcLW
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