Two Together Railcard conditions

[s3an]

I am wondering about the morning restrictions with this railcard.

The conditions say it cannot be used between 04:30am and 09:30am, so does that mean if you catch a train before 04.30 you must get off at 04.30?

 

[Aeion]

No if you start your journey before 0430 then it's valid throughout the day you just can't use it to start a journey before those times.

 

[s3an]

ok, thanks, that is what i thought but was told different at the station when i went to buy tickets.

we were planning to catch the 23.29 from abergavenny on a sunday, have a wait/BOJ at newport, and get the 0530 to paddington. both fgw and arriva trains on line systems say it is ok.

interestingly if we want to travel on the 00.48, weekday service from abergavenny, change at newport, the systems won't offer me the rialcard reduced ticket. does any one know why?

 

[najaB]

interestingly if we want to travel on the 00.48, weekday service from abergavenny, change at newport, the systems won't offer me the rialcard reduced ticket. does any one know why?

Probably not programmed correctly and won't allow travel on trains before 9:30am.

 

[CyrusWuff]

The only exception to the "not valid between 0430 and 0929" rule for Two Together cards (and even then it's only inferred) is for travel on Sleepers.

Condition 8 of the Terms and Conditions explicitly states:

Discounts are not valid for travel from 04:30 – 09:29 hours, Monday to Friday, except on Public Holidays. For full details please enquire at a station ticket office before You travel, phone National Rail Enquiries on 08457 48 49 50.

Having said that, WebTIS shows a discounted Off-Peak Day Return between Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Airport (restriction code ND, so not valid 0430 - 0929) as not being valid between 0130(ish) and 0929, and a discounted Anytime Day Return on the same route as not being valid between 0430 and 0929, so implementation of the restriction isn't perfect.

 

[s3an]

If we travel on the 23.29 on sunday from abergavenny, with a printed itinerary will we get any hassle?

 

[Haywain]

No one can say with certainty whether you will get hassle or not, but the T&Cs look pretty clear. In stating "Discounts are not valid for travel..." they do not suggest any allowance for journeys starting before 04:30, and I would consider the tickets as not being valid between 04:30 and 09:29.
In stating otherwise, I believe Aeion is wrong.

 

[Greenback]

No one can say with certainty whether you will get hassle or not, but the T&Cs look pretty clear. In stating "Discounts are not valid for travel..." they do not suggest any allowance for journeys starting before 04:30, and I would consider the tickets as not being valid between 04:30 and 09:29.
In stating otherwise, I believe Aeion is wrong.

I agree, but I will change my opinion if anyone can post evidence that there is a relaxation for journeys started before 0429.

 

[Romilly]

Taking the Two Together terms & conditions at face value, I would tend to agree with Haywain and Greenback. And their view is backed up by the fact that the Two Together website felt the need to mention specially validity on the sleeper so long as the sleeper was boarded before 0430.

In practice, though, it does seem that some journey planners will sell TT discounted tickets so long as one is on the train before 0430.

As regards the OP's case, it is hard to work out what rules the journey planners are applying. At one point, I wondered whether they were treating the journey beginning late on Sunday as a weekend journey and therefore not subject to the TT time restrictions. I also note that there are different time restrictions on different Abergavenny-London tickets: some allow departure from Newport only if it's between 0200-0545 or after 0830 (in some cases) or 1000 (in other cases).

 

[Aeion]

No one can say with certainty whether you will get hassle or not, but the T&Cs look pretty clear. In stating "Discounts are not valid for travel..." they do not suggest any allowance for journeys starting before 04:30, and I would consider the tickets as not being valid between 04:30 and 09:29.
In stating otherwise, I believe Aeion is wrong.

But the full wording is "Discounts are not valid for travel from 04:30 – 09:29 hours, Monday to Friday, except on Public Holidays." The FROM being they key bit, had it said between I would be inclined to agree with you. But as a guard if you started your journey before that time wether you could complete it or not I would happily accept it on my train as being a valid use of the railcard.

 

[Haywain]

But the full wording is "Discounts are not valid for travel from 04:30 – 09:29 hours, Monday to Friday, except on Public Holidays." The FROM being they key bit, had it said between I would be inclined to agree with you. But as a guard if you started your journey before that time wether you could complete it or not I would happily accept it on my train as being a valid use of the railcard.

In which case you would be wrong.

 

[Greenback]

In the absence of any specific source to say that journeys can be started before 0430 and continued through the period up to 0929, I remain of the opinion that Two Together discounts are not valid between 0430 and 0929 at all.

 

[island]

But the full wording is "Discounts are not valid for travel from 04:30 – 09:29 hours, Monday to Friday, except on Public Holidays." The FROM being they key bit, had it said between I would be inclined to agree with you. But as a guard if you started your journey before that time wether you could complete it or not I would happily accept it on my train as being a valid use of the railcard.

To say that "From A to B" and "Between A and B", where A and B are times, have different meanings (other than possibly excluding the moment of B), is an exceptionally tenuous assertion.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Incidentally, the wording on the Two Together website (as opposed to in the Ts&Cs) doesn't mention 0430 at all, other than in relation to Sleepers.

In the header of the "Travel times and tickets" section it says:

Get 1/3 off Standard and First Class Anytime, Off-Peak and Advance fares when you travel together after 0930 Monday to Friday*, or anytime at weekends and public holidays with your Two Together Railcard.

And in a box on the right-hand side:

The only time you can't use your Two Together Railcard is at morning peak times, ie before 0930 Monday to Friday.

Remember, on weekends and public holidays this restriction doesn't apply, so you can get out and start having adventures whatever time you like.

 

[bnm]

:

I agree, but I will change my opinion if anyone can post evidence that there is a relaxation for journeys started before 0429.

0354 Reading - Paddington 0449
0426 East Croydon - Three Bridges 0456

Checked GWR app and redspottedhanky website. Both allow Two Together discount on those two journeys which start before and go beyond 0430.

Contract entered into by purchasing from those sites (other sites allow too, and for other 'straddling' journeys). That would be evidence enough for me for validity.

 

[Ambient Sheep]

Presumably the difference is that in that case, the second part of the journey starts at 0426 (before 0430), whereas in the OP's case it started at 0530 (after 0430).

I am not qualified to say which point-of-view is right, but that to me is a clear difference in the two cases which makes a comparison between them tenuous at best.

 

[Greenback]

:

0354 Reading - Paddington 0449
0426 East Croydon - Three Bridges 0456

Checked GWR app and redspottedhanky website. Both allow Two Together discount on those two journeys which start before and go beyond 0430.

Contract entered into by purchasing from those sites (other sites allow too, and for other 'straddling' journeys). That would be evidence enough for me for validity.

I agree that if you can get a ticket through a journey, you are travelling with a valid ticket. Though not everyone does!

What I don't agree with is that there is any rule that specifically says that travel between 0430 and 0929 with a Two Together Railcard discount is allowed.

It's my belief that the fact that some journey planners do allow some journeys is by way of a programming error, probably down to the complexity of the system, rather than the deliberate implementation of any sort of easement or relaxation of the rules.

 

[island]

I'm not sure what is difficult to understand about "travel using tickets discounted with Two Together Railcard is not permitted between 0430-0929 on weekdays, except on sleeper services".

 

[Greenback]

It does seem pretty clear cut to me.

 

[s3an]

I'm not sure what is difficult to understand about "travel using tickets discounted with Two Together Railcard is not permitted between 0430-0929 on weekdays, except on sleeper services".

it seems as clear cut as lots of other conditions on the railways


so back to my original query. what do two together customers do at 04.30am if they catch a train before 04.30am?


sean

 

[Wallsendmag]

it seems as clear cut as lots of other conditions on the railways


so back to my original query. what do two together customers do at 04.30am if they catch a train before 04.30am?


sean

Pay the X/S

 

[s3an]

I agree that if you can get a ticket through a journey, you are travelling with a valid ticket. Though not everyone does!

What I don't agree with is that there is any rule that specifically says that travel between 0430 and 0929 with a Two Together Railcard discount is allowed.

It's my belief that the fact that some journey planners do allow some journeys is by way of a programming error, probably down to the complexity of the system, rather than the deliberate implementation of any sort of easement or relaxation of the rules.

i don't think it is a particularly difficult problem, not compared to many others. they need to employ better staff and provide a better requirements and specification.

 

[button_boxer]

so back to my original query. what do two together customers do at 04.30am if they catch a train before 04.30am?

That wasn't your original query:

we were planning to catch the 23.29 from abergavenny on a sunday, have a wait/BOJ at newport, and get the 0530 to paddington.

The evidence people are presenting from booking engines seems to suggest that you'd be ok to board a train before 0430 and remain on that train past 0430, but not to board a train at 0530.

 

[s3an]

Pay the X/S

what XS? how do people know there is going to be an XS if they buy their tickets on-line, with a valid itinerary?

 

[Greenback]

If you can present an itinerary from a journey planner showing that the purchase of discounted tickets was allowed, you could well be allowed to travel. However, I'd be prepared for a discussion about it.