Tyne & Wear Metro antisocial behaviour

[102 fan]

How bad is the Tyne and Wear Metro, and more specifically the airport branch for anti social behaviour? I understand that it's normally Friday and Saturday nights that are problematic for all transport systems, but I remember reading news stories about the problems the Metro system had.

 

[bramling]

How bad is the Tyne and Wear Metro, and more specifically the airport branch for anti social behaviour? I understand that it's normally Friday and Saturday nights that are problematic for all transport systems, but I remember reading news stories about the problems the Metro system had.

Variable, but can be pretty bad at times, especially in the evenings. The Airport branch is slightly more leafy suburbia compared to some parts, however Regent Centre to Fawdon is problematic. Regent Centre station has a large multi-storey car park above it which seems to be largely empty much of the time, and this seems to be a hotspot for trouble.

I guess it depends what one is used to. If one is used to Metrolink then the metro is no worse. But for some it will be an eye-opener.

 

[DanNCL]

The Airport branch is generally alright. Certainly the least troublesome of the four branches on the network anyway, by some considerable margin.

But I’d agree with bramling about Regent Centre, Wansbeck Road and Fawdon being trouble spots. Kingston Park is increasingly troublesome these days too, despite the area being what would be considered by many to be ‘middle class’ suburbia.

During the day there usually aren’t any issues, even on the more troublesome parts of the network. The worst you’ll find in the day usually is the odd drunk. If you’re travelling after the evening peak I’d recommend travelling in the front unit, as the troublemakers generally target the rear unit.

A few years ago Nexus considered splitting the formations after the evening peak to help combat anti social behaviour, with one unit remaining in service and the other returning to depot, but ultimately decided it was more hassle than it’s worth with the ever increasing unreliability of the already unreliable fleet. There were extensive conversations about the idea with stakeholders.

 

[Volvictof]

The Airport branch is generally alright. Certainly the least troublesome of the four branches on the network anyway, by some considerable margin.

But I’d agree with bramling about Regent Centre, Wansbeck Road and Fawdon being trouble spots. Kingston Park is increasingly troublesome these days too, despite the area being what would be considered by many to be ‘middle class’ suburbia.

During the day there usually aren’t any issues, even on the more troublesome parts of the network. The worst you’ll find in the day usually is the odd drunk. If you’re travelling after the evening peak I’d recommend travelling in the front unit, as the troublemakers generally target the rear unit.

A few years ago Nexus considered splitting the formations after the evening peak to help combat anti social behaviour, with one unit remaining in service and the other returning to depot, but ultimately decided it was more hassle than it’s worth with the ever increasing unreliability of the already unreliable fleet. There were extensive conversations about the idea with stakeholders.

I’d agree with all of this. It does get it’s fair share but generally the least troublesome part of the system.
They did actually used to split them for a time, leaving one car up at the airport according to my longer serving colleagues.
But as you say, they won’t run single carriages anymore mainly because there is no redundancy. If your compressor breaks then you haven’t got a spare one to use and the train is effectively stuck.

Of course being the quietest part of the system it also sees the least amount of staff presence.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The Metro is really no worse than any other urban public transport system. You get the kids on stinking of pot and shouting and swearing, and the odd missile lobbed at a train, but nothing you don't see in Manchester, Liverpool or London.

There are specific stations I wouldn't use at night- Pelaw and Gateshead Stadium south of the river, Meadowell in North Tyneside- but not on the airport branch and it won't be an issue if you're just going to/from the airport.

 

[bramling]

The Metro is really no worse than any other urban public transport system. You get the kids on stinking of pot and shouting and swearing, and the odd missile lobbed at a train, but nothing you don't see in Manchester, Liverpool or London.

There are specific stations I wouldn't use at night- Pelaw and Gateshead Stadium south of the river, Meadowell in North Tyneside- but not on the airport branch and it won't be an issue if you're just going to/from the airport.

I’d say it’s worse than London Underground. What you don’t generally get on TFL is a station which is essentially right in the middle of an estate, unstaffed, and nothing to stop people entering the system without paying. So it does allow undesirable types to roam largely at their own devices, unfortunately Tyneside and Wearside are no different to any other urban areas in having a proportion of such types. This also means it’s the chosen means for teenagers to get around, which to be fair in most cases isn’t really a problem, but again like anywhere there are going to be issues when they congregate in groups. There seem to be a few stations which act as de-facto teenager hangouts in the evening, Pelaw is certainly one, there’s a few others too. One doesn’t really see this in London.

I certainly have felt mildly uncomfortable at times on the Metro, and not just at night time, and this is from someone who’s used to London. Smashed windows is also pretty common; when we were staying in Tynemouth earlier this year and using the metro daily it was very common to see trains withdrawn from service due to smashed windows, or drivers checking their train having heard a bang, quite depressing really.

We’ve before had a list of sections posted on here which are particularly rough, which amounts to a good proportion of the system. Something along the lines of
* Byker to North Shields with special mention for Meadow Well (Smith’s Park).
* The coast during school holidays
* Shiremoor
* Regent Centre to Fawdon
* Gateshead Stadium to South Shields, especially Gateshead Stadium, Felling, Pelaw, Tyne Dock and Chichester
* Fellgate and Seaburn
* Park Lane to South Hylton
This must be about 75% of the system, and basically leaves the central area, the bit around Jesmond/Gosforth, the top side of the coast loop, and the north western tip of the Airport branch.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I certainly have felt mildly uncomfortable at times on the Metro, and not just at night time, and this is from someone who’s used to London.

I more had the urban Southeastern network in mind, to be honest. The staffing on Underground and Overground makes things a lot better, certainly compared to the old Silverlink days.

Before I moved here I lived by Northumberland Park and worked in North Shields. I only rarely felt uncomfortable, even at night, and even then the yobs were mostly interested in being yobs to each other. I ignored them, they ignored me. School holidays tended to be a bit worse, but more in the summer with projectiles.

There are stations I would avoid- Gateshead Stadium and Pelaw are both isolated and attract muggers as a result- but on the trains it's fine. I'm assuming the OP is travelling from the airport to the city centre; they'll be fine.

 

[Paul_10]

We’ve before had a list of sections posted on here which are particularly rough, which amounts to a good proportion of the system. Something along the lines of
* Byker to North Shields with special mention for Meadow Well (Smith’s Park).
* The coast during school holidays
* Shiremoor
* Regent Centre to Fawdon
* Gateshead Stadium to South Shields, especially Gateshead Stadium, Felling, Pelaw, Tyne Dock and Chichester
* Fellgate and Seaburn
* Park Lane to South Hylton
This must be about 75% of the system, and basically leaves the central area, the bit around Jesmond/Gosforth, the top side of the coast loop, and the north western tip of the Airport branch.

Surprised Park Lane to South Hylton section would be a hotspot in all honesty although it's probably the quietest section out of all parts of the system which can be an issue. In general on the south parts of the Tyne and from my own experience, I'm less likely to experience issues on the Sunderland line than on the Shields line.

I also think the section between Pelaw and South Gosforth is probably the safest in respect of the amount of people travelling(safety in numbers) although as you say individual stations can be troublesome for sure and it only takes one person to be a nuisence.

In terms of travelling I would avoid the section from Manors all the way to Palmersville really, that is the part where windows being smashed seemed the most likely to happen along with other anti social behaviour and even during the daytime, there is no doubt some trains will have there own more minor issues.

 

[Jim]

I spent two days up on the network in June and was really surprised at the lack of revenue / anti social behaviour prevention activities on the network, obviously only see a snapshot but still.

 

[ModernRailways]

How bad is the Tyne and Wear Metro, and more specifically the airport branch for anti social behaviour? I understand that it's normally Friday and Saturday nights that are problematic for all transport systems, but I remember reading news stories about the problems the Metro system had.

The Airport branch is fine, you often get groups hanging around Regent Centre - Fawdon and riding the trains, Kingston Park is starting to add to that now too, but for the most part there's no major trouble and if you're just passing through, you'll be fine, they generally keep to themselves and don't do anything to other people on board.

The most problematic is definitely between St James and North Shields, Monkseaton to Benton is also quite bad, but it depends on your definition, with the former definitely where I'd keep my wits about me, and the latter being similar to regent centre-fawdon in that they typically keep to themselves, but they're a bit more adventurous and will occasionally try hurling things at the train, kicking windows out, but generally leave other passengers alone.

The city centre stations can also be quite bad especially on weekends, but it's the typical behaviour that you would see in a flat roofed pub.

I use the system to get to/from work most of the time because I'm loathe to pay for petrol when I have a free pass, and I probably see some form of behaviour that shouldn't be occurring on 4/5 trips. Most of the time it's minor things and if you just ignore what's going on then they'll also ignore you, whether it be smoking/vaping, shouting/swearing/swinging from the straps.

South of the Tyne, and you have pockets of trouble with kids hanging around but it's more just general kids being nuisances and nothing better to do, arguably similar to the Regent Centre-Fawdon groups. The lot around Meadow Well, North Shields are the ones who are more 'hardcore' and are where I'd say watch yourself.

Short answer. Is the metro unsafe? Yes. Would I ride it to the Airport? Yes.

 

[rg177]

Four Lane Ends was particularly bad over covid for massive groups of kids wreaking havoc. Northumberland Park also a regular place for things getting thrown off of the top of the car park.

Airport line is perfectly fine though. Regent Centre not a great place to hang around if the local kids are bored but it's the one line I still use regularly. Ditto Sunderland extension which I never found to have any issues other than Park Lane with similarly bored kids.

As said above, St James to North Shields can be a bit hairy. During the day not necessarily awful, but can be bad later on.

My least favourite station was always Manors as it was treated as the "free" way to get to town with people never expecting barriers to be on. Mondays in particular, apparently that was drug deal day nearby so it attracted many dodgy characters. Late at night too it's just a bit creepy.

 

[JamboCommuter]

I've only ever seen trouble once on an Edinburgh Tram. They actually ran out of Pimm's in the dining car.

 

[Class142sbad]

I have seen my fair share of incidents I witnessed on the Tyne and Wear Metro. Here are a couple of the highlights:

1, A Homeless person got on at Fawdon (Airport Branch) and started to have a shouting match at the passengers on that Metrocar. He got off at South Gosforth with some forceful persuasion by the Driver over the Tannoy.

2, A Presumably drunken woman and her friends got on at Longbenton in the middle of the day. She was carrying an open bottle of alcohol and started hanging off the poles at the doors (With her clothes on thank God) and was singing in front of her friends and they were filming her. The Group got of at Whitley Bay.

3, Have you ever seen some dare devil kids doing Wheelies in an underground Metro Station? Well I certainly Have! I was on the Train at Monument and I saw some Kids (For whatever reason) doing Wheelies in front of the escalator bank at Monument Station. I just wonder, did they ever get in trouble?

I have also seen the normal types of Anti Social Behaviour like Vaping on the Trains and other types of ASB aswell.

 

[GeordieO]

I spent two days up on the network in June and was really surprised at the lack of revenue / anti social behaviour prevention activities on the network, obviously only see a snapshot but still.

As an ex staff member, staffing activities, deployment and planning is a downfall which leads 3to a wide range of issues on the system.

Of course being the quietest part of the system it also sees the least amount of staff presence.

It is no coincidence that anti social behaviour on this line is increasing. If you neglect the line of staff, then that will happen as people start to realise. I did however find a staff barrier at Kingston Park not long ago, so maybe things are changing for the better.

I know staff can't be everywhere on an open system, but fluidity and movement providing a presence on the system would help reduce antisocial behaviour. It is often luck if you see staff not on gated stations (which are mainly in Newcastle city centre).

 

[Gostav]

I'm curious that until this Saturday the front seats on all metro trains are still out of use. Does it have anything to do with the antisocial issues?

 

[Volvictof]

I'm curious that until this Saturday the front seats on all metro trains are still out of use. Does it have anything to do with the antisocial issues?

Nothings been mentioned since they were cordoned off, the original reason was to keep 2 meter distance from the drivers seat for covid.
There are a huge amount of new drivers though who now have never driven with passengers in the front seat, you'd be surprised how distracting it is having someone sat there as applied to being sat on the reverse side of the seat and I haven’t seen any figures to back this up but I’d imagine the less distraction means the less operational incidents. I think it’s also much better as if I have to quickly open the cab door into the saloon there is no risk that I will hit someone with it or have ask them to move to let me out etc.

 

[DustyBin]

I generally only use the Metro a handful of times each month and rarely see anything truly antisocial. Yesterday evening however I came across a group of feral (and that’s being kind!) kids on the train between Central Station and South Gosforth. They were truly vile; swearing at other passengers, spitting at them and kicking the vestibule screens and train doors. Several of us challenged them in a calm manner and were subjected to an absolute tirade of abuse. It was good though that the majority of passengers decided to make a stand (which is why they got off where they did). They can’t have been older than 12 or 13 which is quite sad really. What a pointless, miserable existence.

 

[DanNCL]

I generally only use the Metro a handful of times each month and rarely see anything truly antisocial. Yesterday evening however I came across a group of feral (and that’s being kind!) kids on the train between Central Station and South Gosforth. They were truly vile; swearing at other passengers, spitting at them and kicking the vestibule screens and train doors. Several of us challenged them in a calm manner and were subjected to an absolute tirade of abuse. It was good though that the majority of passengers decided to make a stand (which is why they got off where they did). They can’t have been older than 12 or 13 which is quite sad really. What a pointless, miserable existence.

There’s one group of them that target the central core of the Metro on a near daily basis, and often during peak times too. Wouldn’t surprise me if this was the same group. I’ve had the misfortune of having to walk up all three sets of escalators at Gateshead several times recently after they’ve been activating the emergency stop buttons. Even Metro’s new security staff struggle with them.

 

[DustyBin]

There’s one group of them that target the central core of the Metro on a near daily basis, and often during peak times too. Wouldn’t surprise me if this was the same group. I’ve had the misfortune of having to walk up all three sets of escalators at Gateshead several times recently after they’ve been activating the emergency stop buttons. Even Metro’s new security staff struggle with them.

Quite possibly, it was early evening (around 7pm) so it wasn't quiet by any means. Their attitude seemed to be "we can behave as abhorrently as we like and there's nothing you can do about it". They'll learn the hard way one way or another (hopefully).

 

[Swanny200]

To be honest it seems to be a thing in general round here, my oldest is at Gateshead College and religiously has me pick them up from Pelaw instead of them coming through to Brockley Whins as it gets so bad, Jarrow is a bottleneck for kids on E scooters and hanging around the area shouting abuse at the ticket checkers after about 7pm, they don't care about being challenged. I was parked at Ocean Road in South Shields the other day waiting for someone, these kids (between 9 and about 12 years old) came out of the community centre from a youth club and started immediately kicking at the car and pulling at the rear windscreen wiper, I challenged them and immediately they started hurling abuse, calling me a nonce and started throwing snowballs at the car. I rang the community centre and they sent out the social worker that ran the club, they even ignored her challenges. She then told me that they don't even know these kids names and have no contact numbers for parents as it is just a drop in centre. They have no respect and think they are untouchable and invincible, it isn't a North East thing as I have seen it in most metropolitan areas.

 

[Class142sbad]

There’s one group of them that target the central core of the Metro on a near daily basis, and often during peak times too. Wouldn’t surprise me if this was the same group. I’ve had the misfortune of having to walk up all three sets of escalators at Gateshead several times recently after they’ve been activating the emergency stop buttons. Even Metro’s new security staff struggle with them.

I think that's the ones I've seen doing wheelies in Monument. If the Security staff are having a hard time dealing with them god knows how their parents or teachers deal with them.
I feel sorry for Drivers and ticket gate people who have to deal with this stuff nearly every day.

 

[wysall]

In late November I was from Pelaw to South Gosforth (during peak hours and a journey time of 20 minutes) harassed and eventually assaulted by a group of youths. Near the front of the train and the driver; no attempt to intervene by either him or any other passengers. By the time the police finally got round to it (them having forgotten to call when originally scheduled) the CCTV was gone.

 

[bramling]

In late November I was from Pelaw to South Gosforth (during peak hours and a journey time of 20 minutes) harassed and eventually assaulted by a group of youths. Near the front of the train and the driver; no attempt to intervene by either him or any other passengers. By the time the police finally got round to it (them having forgotten to call when originally scheduled) the CCTV was gone.

The rather depressing thing is that one can bet that if anyone retaliated and gave these teenagers a good hiding the CCTV would appear quicker than a flash. Likewise staff will be intervening if seen daring to take enthusiast photos at a station.

 

[DanNCL]

Part of the reason CCTV isn't requested from Nexus before it's deleted is because of how under-resourced Northumbria Police is - only two Police officers at the force work on Metro-related matters, and the BTP have no involvement with Metro either away from Network Rail infrastructure. By the time one of those two officers has the time to begin looking at the case, often the CCTV footage will have gone. Can't remember how long it's kept on the current fleet but it isn't long at all.

Likewise staff will be intervening if seen daring to take enthusiast photos at a station.

Nexus are much more lax on that than they used to be. As long as you don't video or photograph staff they don't seem to mind these days.