Tyne & Wear Metro Fleet Replacement: Awarded to Stadler

[ModernRailways]

Metro have replied to people's questions on the 555s on Instagram stating


and when someone said "We are tired of waiting. We are dwelling and riding our new metro in our minds" Metro responded with this:



replies were on this video: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7ULoJKoZTh/?igsh=OHNkZnJicjh3MWVm

‘Not much longer to wait’ is totally relative and I think you’re reading too much into them.
The comment they make saying ‘there's no plans for that, but there should be trains in service by the end of this year so not too much longer to wait.’ is likely far more indicative that the plan is to have trains in service by the end of the year but certainly not in a matter of weeks (3 weeks away now if you want to believe some)

What I have tried to find out, to no avail as yet, is if everything has been done at night, including the majority of the mileage accumulation, is that potentially why they only need a small of daytime running to ensure they can mingle with the current (old?) fleet. If so, then the daytime testing is basically a formality and more just the finalising of the unit before ready for service.

Circling back, but I’ve still not been able to get confirmation (or refutation) that this is the case and daytime testing is merely a formality.
If someone has the effort then this could be a good thing to FOI request from Nexus, asking for the current projected entry into service date (provisional date) as well as the day/nighttime testing schedule.
They may, however, be tight lipped and could pass it off as private Stadler information.

 

[DanNCL]

I can immediately think of one thing that does need testing during daylight hours and that’s the DOO cameras, to make sure that sunlight reflection isn’t an issue.

As for entry into service, I’m sure we’re many months away from any meaningful entry into service. But if the ORR sign it off and there’s even just one driver, they’d be able to run a one off Regent Centre - Airport shuttle or similar just to say they’ve ran it and the timescale for that could be much shorter.

Or another option could be, as is often seen in Europe, for one train to run in passenger service as a test for a set period of time, though granted there’s no precedent for that in the UK.

The announcement of a July General Election slightly complicates matters as Nexus are subject to purdah, effectively meaning no non-essential announcements can be made until after the election. And that presumably includes any song and dance about new trains entering service and the inevitable self praise Nexus management will give themselves in that announcement when it happens.

 

[Trestrol]

Number 5 has passed its daylight running so will probably be the first into service. Depending on Nexus getting some drivers trained to drive them that is. Work started this week on construction of unit 28.

 

[18nufc98]

Number 5 has passed its daylight running so will probably be the first into service. Depending on Nexus getting some drivers trained to drive them that is. Work started this week on construction of unit 28.

its done 10k already?

 

[DanNCL]

its done 10k already?

The 10k doesn’t have to be all during the day.

By my own calculations it’s done around 500km during the daytime test runs, or about 5% of the total distance required to reach the 10k threshold. Entirely conceivable though if it’s been out almost every night for several months that it could have done the rest of it overnight.

 

[18nufc98]

Well am sure we’ll find out if it’s still out next week or not.

Still don’t personally believe that there’s a unit nearly ready for public service. I know people like to bash nexus but if there’s a unit ready they are going to have started driver training a while back….

 

[Trestrol]

You have to remember we are dealing with two organisations here, Nexus and Stadler. They will have liaison meetings to discuss testing but ultimately it's up to Nexus when driver training commences. Stadler gets on with testing and commissioning the units to the ORR safety standards. Progress will be known to both parties. Service into traffic has already been delayed so maybe Nexus were reticent about jumping the gun. Number 5 will now undergo any minor fault rectification then be handed over to Nexus.

 

[Paul_10]

You have to remember we are dealing with two organisations here, Nexus and Stadler. They will have liaison meetings to discuss testing but ultimately it's up to Nexus when driver training commences. Stadler gets on with testing and commissioning the units to the ORR safety standards. Progress will be known to both parties. Service into traffic has already been delayed so maybe Nexus were reticent about jumping the gun. Number 5 will now undergo any minor fault rectification then be handed over to Nexus.

I'm guessing we will also find out by the train going around the whole system doing the driver training runs and the destination blinds having either "Not in service or "driving training" on them as i doubt they will need to have the terminus destination for driving training.

I'll still think it will be at least Autumn before any enter passenger service.

 

[Killingworth]

Apologies for a digression, and to those who already know this, but just spotted that Bergen now has a light rail system with trams from Stadler running to the airport. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergen_Light_Rail#Rolling_stockl

In days now long gone there were up to 5 boats a week between Newcastle and Bergen.

 

[DanNCL]

555015 visited South Hylton the other night. I’ll hazard a guess that’ll be the next one to appear on a daytime run.

 

[hacman]

Apologies for a digression, and to those who already know this, but just spotted that Bergen now has a light rail system with trams from Stadler running to the airport. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergen_Light_Rail#Rolling_stockl

In days now long gone there were up to 5 boats a week between Newcastle and Bergen.

Rode this last month when visiting the area - it's a very smart new system with a few unique/quirky features.

That said, the VarioBahn isn't a true Stadler product; having been developed by Bombardier and their predecessors initially.

 

[Killingworth]

Rode this last month when visiting the area - it's a very smart new system with a few unique/quirky features.

That said, the VarioBahn isn't a true Stadler product; having been developed by Bombardier and their predecessors initially.

I'll try it next week when we'll be in Bergen.

Returning to Tyneside, I completed the Great North Run last year and said it would be my last. If they get one of these new units into service to South Shields by September I'll start one last time - and catch the Metro from Heworth to South Shields!

Come on Nexus, make that possible.

 

[hacman]

I'll try it next week when we'll be in Bergen.

Save yourself the cost of a taxi/transfer and grab it from the airport if it goes where you're heading - it's very cheap and super frequent, and you literally walk out the front of the terminal and down to the platform!

 

[Royston Vasey]

Apropos of nothing, I've known the Nexus brand for almost 30 years, and it's just occurred to me that it might be a mangled portmanteau of NEwcastle X SUnderland, or rather NEwcastle X dnalrednUS

 

[Killingworth]

Save yourself the cost of a taxi/transfer and grab it from the airport if it goes where you're heading - it's very cheap and super frequent, and you literally walk out the front of the terminal and down to the platform!

Taking train from Oslo!

 

[Trestrol]

I'll try it next week when we'll be in Bergen.

Returning to Tyneside, I completed the Great North Run last year and said it would be my last. If they get one of these new units into service to South Shields by September I'll start one last time - and catch the Metro from Heworth to South Shields!

Come on Nexus, make that possible.

That is the plan to have some in service for the GNR. Although it will be sooner.

On another note something got me thinking. All the moaners that say Hitachi should have been given the supply contract should look at Glasgow. That was won by Hitachi who subbed it to Stadler. Hitachi provides the driverless technology and Stadler the trains.

 

[hacman]

That is the plan to have some in service for the GNR. Although it will be sooner.

On another note something got me thinking. All the moaners that say Hitachi should have been given the supply contract should look at Glasgow. That was won by Hitachi who subbed it to Stadler. Hitachi provides the driverless technology and Stadler the trains.

Hitachi does have metro products, but they're mostly from the AnsaldoBreda purchase. I suspect the reason for subcontracting to Stadler would be to do with the weird gauge and such in Glasgow. Hitachi pretty much purchased AB purely to acquire the signalling division, which they got at a firesale price.

That said, AnsaldoBreda products were always very hit-and-miss. On the one hand, their Driverless Metro platform is very robust, well built and has been proven in many cities. On the other, just look at some of their very high-profile failures; including DSB IC4, Fyra, WMATA, and Gothenburg trams to name a few.

I'm sure Hitachi is finding/has found the root of the problems, but the fact still stands that the track record isn't positive and change takes time!

I've yet to see any hard evidence that Hitachi would have produced the trains in Aycliffe if they had been awarded the tender, and people need to see past the few jobs this may have helped secure short-term, and look to the impact of the performance of the fleet on the economic activity of the region as a whole across the next 30+ years.

I wonder how many people who rely on Metro daily are currently taking comfort in the fact that the present fleet was built by British workers?

 

[MarkyT]

Hitachi does have metro products, but they're mostly from the AnsaldoBreda purchase. I suspect the reason for subcontracting to Stadler would be to do with the weird gauge and such in Glasgow. Hitachi pretty much purchased AB purely to acquire the signalling division, which they got at a firesale price.

Stadler are renowned for making quality custom body designs for small production runs. They've supplied countless narrow gauge trains to Alpine mountain railways for example.

That said, AnsaldoBreda products were always very hit-and-miss. On the one hand, their Driverless Metro platform is very robust, well built and has been proven in many cities. On the other, just look at some of their very high-profile failures; including DSB IC4, Fyra, WMATA, and Gothenburg trams to name a few.

I'm sure Hitachi is finding/has found the root of the problems, but the fact still stands that the track record isn't positive and change takes time!

The original trams for modern networks in Birmingham and Manchester were also problematic and both fleets had a short lifespan. Hitachi managed to get the former FYRA trains into operation in Italy recently after a substantial rebuild.

 

[Meerkat]

Stadler are renowned for making quality custom body designs for small production runs.

I keep reading this but IIRC GA has the 745s rather than more 720s (which would be much more useful) because the 755 order wasn’t big enough for Stadler to be interested??

 

[hacman]

I keep reading this but IIRC GA has the 745s rather than more 720s (which would be much more useful) because the 755 order wasn’t big enough for Stadler to be interested??

I'm not sure that adds up, since there are 20 745s, and 38 755s, which are both decent-sized Stadler fleets. There are then 133 720s.

So in this case Bombardier got the majority of the order, with Stadler getting the smaller orders for the parts of the fleet that had specific requirements such as bi-mode operation.

 

[MarkyT]

I keep reading this but IIRC GA has the 745s rather than more 720s (which would be much more useful) because the 755 order wasn’t big enough for Stadler to be interested??

They're a big player now, far from their humble beginnings. It must have been a major effort to design and approve a new mainline bodyshell specific to the UK (possibly for Ireland too, although Alstom seems to have sewn that market up for a few years). I suspect they needed a minimum order to make the whole thing competitive. Slow narrow gauge stock for local Swiss lines is probably easier in many ways, crashworthyness for instance, but while they're still clearly in that market, I expect it's fairly niche and now forms only a small part of their total order book value, when you think how many FLIRTs nd KISSes are out there on the continental mainlines. I read the Glasgow traction and running gear is based on light rail equipment, so they're just oddly-shaped trams really, not unlike the original T&W metrocars being based on German Stadtbahnwagen B vehicles!

I'm not sure that adds up, since there are 20 745s, and 38 755s, which are both decent-sized Stadler fleets. There are then 133 720s.

So in this case Bombardier got the majority of the order, with Stadler getting the smaller orders for the parts of the fleet that had specific requirements such as bi-mode operation.

The 745s are also 125mph trains while 720s are limited to 100mph. There aren't many places that can be exploited but it is of some benefit with potential for more. I'm sure Bombardier could have produced a higher-spec Aventra with a plusher interior for Intercity and airport duty. I'm pleased the level-boarding solution won out, but also disappointed the rest of the Anglia network has been locked into another three or four decades of poor platform-train interface.

 

[Meerkat]

I'm not sure that adds up, since there are 20 745s, and 38 755s, which are both decent-sized Stadler fleets. There are then 133 720s.

So in this case Bombardier got the majority of the order, with Stadler getting the smaller orders for the parts of the fleet that had specific requirements such as bi-mode operation.

As I remember it the 755 fleet wasn’t big enough for Stadler so the expresses were split out from the 720 order and added to the Stadler order.
I’m assuming it was a bigger financial and engineering step for Stadler than most small orders due to it being a new market, with all the new regulatory, testing, and operating rules and practices to learn.
If so then now having that experience to leverage might mean they are more flexible in future (or they might decide that they had better price in more risk next time!!).

 

[DanNCL]

I've compiled a fleet list for the 555s in a similar format to my list in this thread for the old Metrocars.

Key:
Green - operational
Blue - Delivered, under test.
Orange - Complete, not yet delivered
Purple - Training unit
Grey Bold - On assembly line at Stadler Rheintal, St Margrethen, Switzerland.
Grey Regular - Construction not yet started.

Notes:
Units stored in Switzerland are split between three known locations; Stadler's St Margrethen site, the SBB yard at St Margrethen, and Stadler's Erlen site.

555001 - delivered to Gosforth 19/04/2024. Not known to have left Gosforth under its own power. Tested at VUZ Velim, Czechia, during late 2022 and early 2023
555002 - complete, stored in Switzerland. Tested at VUZ Velim, Czechia, during late 2022 and early 2023
555003 - first unit to be delivered to Gosforth, arrived 28/02/2023. Has ran on overnight test runs, not yet ran during daylight hours
555004 - delivered to Gosforth 11/03/2023. Has ran on overnight test runs, not yet ran during daylight hours
555005 - delivered to Gosforth 06/04/2023. Has ran on both daytime and overnight test runs
555006 - complete, stored in Switzerland
555007 - complete, stored in Switzerland
555008 - complete, stored in Switzerland
555009 - complete, stored in Switzerland
555010 - complete, stored in Switzerland
555011 - complete, stored in Switzerland
555012 - complete, stored in Switzerland
555013 - delivered to Gosforth 16/12/2023. Training unit at South Shields
555014 - complete, stored in Switzerland
555015 - delivered to Gosforth 16/12/2023. Has ran on overnight test runs, not yet ran during daylight hours
555016 - complete, stored in Switzerland
555017 - complete, stored in Switzerland
555018 - complete, stored in Switzerland
555019 - complete, stored in Switzerland
555020 - delivered to Gosforth 19/04/2024. Not known to have left Gosforth under its own power
555021 - complete, stored in Switzerland
555022 - complete, stored in Switzerland
555023 - complete, stored in Switzerland
555024 - on assembly line at Stadler Rheintal, St Margrethen, Switzerland
555025 - on assembly line at Stadler Rheintal, St Margrethen, Switzerland
555026 - on assembly line at Stadler Rheintal, St Margrethen, Switzerland
555027 - on assembly line at Stadler Rheintal, St Margrethen, Switzerland
555028 - on assembly line at Stadler Rheintal, St Margrethen, Switzerland
555029 - construction not yet started
555030 - construction not yet started
555031 - construction not yet started
555032 - construction not yet started
555033 - construction not yet started
555034 - construction not yet started
555035 - construction not yet started
555036 - construction not yet started
555037 - construction not yet started
555038 - construction not yet started
555039 - construction not yet started
555040 - construction not yet started
555041 - construction not yet started
555042 - construction not yet started
555043 - construction not yet started
555044 - construction not yet started
555045 - construction not yet started
555046 - construction not yet started

 

[ainsworth74]

So in terms of passenger service for the first unit or two would October/November seem plausible?

 

[ModernRailways]

So in terms of passenger service for the first unit or two would October/November seem plausible?

Not according to @Trestrol but from what I have heard from ex-colleagues that seems to be the most likely

 

[ainsworth74]

Cheers, fingers crossed I guess!

 

[jkkne]

So in terms of passenger service for the first unit or two would October/November seem plausible?

As long as there’s no points failures, station roofs falling off, trees on the line, level crossing failures, signalling outages or power failures…I have huge confidence

 

[Trestrol]

They want four in service at least for the GNR. 555004 next for daylight running.

 

[Paul_10]

They want four in service at least for the GNR. 555004 next for daylight running.

Just for that day or by that date?

On the outside looking in, it seems overly ambitious but hopefully your right.

 

[hacman]

Just for that day or by that date?

On the outside looking in, it seems overly ambitious but hopefully your right.

To be honest it would be a very good opportunity to test how the new trains handle extreme crowds before their full introduction and, given the state of the old fleet, it can't exactly make the situation on the day worse!